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Engine Start Short Cut Question?

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    Engine Start Short Cut Question?

    When starting the engines, I would like to know if I can set all 4 mixture controls to "Rich" setting on pedestal prior to moving my view to the upper area to then start the engines one at a time?

    Is there any reason why this short cut cannot be used, or is it not advisable, and why?

    This would lower the number of view switches I will have to make?

    Bill Clark
    Win10, V-2004//I5-8600K 5.2GHz//Nvidia GTX 1080Ti//VRAM 11GB
    RAM 32GB//2TB M2.NVMe//Gigabyte Z370 Gaming 7//Corsair H115i

    #2
    Originally posted by Bingo041 View Post
    When starting the engines, I would like to know if I can set all 4 mixture controls to "Rich" setting on pedestal prior to moving my view to the upper area to then start the engines one at a time?

    Is there any reason why this short cut cannot be used, or is it not advisable, and why?

    This would lower the number of view switches I will have to make?
    I recommend you don't use the realistic engine start option. Now you are free to use auto rich any way you wish.

    In a realistic start, one does not turn on the fuel until a successful engine firing is accomplished using the fuel in the cylinders provided by the prime pump. The reason is to avoid predetonation or backfiring either one capable of engine damage. One needs to appreciate the expense of major overhauls that must occur about every 1200-1500 hrs compared the the overhaul interval of 8000 hrs or more for turbines. With this kind of expense exposure, engine starts are really important.
    Dan Downs KCRP
    i7-10700K 32GB 3600MHz 3080Ti

    Comment


    • jsmarko3
      jsmarko3 commented
      Editing a comment
      If I recall the POH correctly, it doesn't take long for the boost pump and an auto rich setting to hydraulic lock a cylinder, either.

      Unsure if that's specifically simulated, but it costs nothing to do it right.

    #3
    Dan, are the START methods in PMDG video # 6 and in Tutorial # 2 realistic?

    Because there is risk of hydraulic lock, pointed out to me by jsmarko3, my shortcut appears risky. I am going back to what is called in video/Tutorial 2?

    Robert is planning on offering a more advanced topic on engine start in a later video, not yet available. Is this where your comments would be covered to address improving engine longevity?
    Bill Clark
    Win10, V-2004//I5-8600K 5.2GHz//Nvidia GTX 1080Ti//VRAM 11GB
    RAM 32GB//2TB M2.NVMe//Gigabyte Z370 Gaming 7//Corsair H115i

    Comment


    • DDowns
      DDowns commented
      Editing a comment
      RSR owns and operates a radial engine aircraft, I don't. I'll defer to him even if our procedures vary slightly. Unable to comment on his plans for future videos.

    #4
    Technique I saw in a real company POH that I use in the Sim:

    1) Click middle start switch, begins the blade count.
    2) At 9 blades*, click primer switch
    (Edit) 3) At 12 blades*, rotate the magneto switch to Both and click booster
    4) As the engine fires up, increase mixture from idle cutoff to auto lean and then auto rich.

    *IRL the blade count for priming and then ignition varies based on how long it has been shut down etc., but in the sim it is always 9 and 12.
    Last edited by MattS; 04May2022, 11:26.
    Matt Smith

    Comment


      #5
      In the sim you can use realistic start setting and set the fuel levers to rich before cranking the engines. Realistic or not, no harm done.
      Ryzen 9 5900X, RX 6900XT, 32GB DDR4 RAM @3600MHz, 4k
      Marc Ehnle
      GFO Beta

      Comment


        #6
        Originally posted by MattS View Post
        Technique I saw in a real company POH that I use in the Sim:

        1) Click middle start switch, begins the blade count.
        2) At 9 blades*, click primer switch
        3) At 12 blades*, click booster and then immediately rotate the magneto switch to Both
        4) As the engine fires up, increase mixture from idle cutoff to auto lean and then auto rich.

        *IRL the blade count for priming and then ignition varies based on how long it has been shut down etc., but in the sim it is always 9 and 12.
        This is the procedure I use, with the exception of item 3 being magneto to both then ignition booster.

        I appreciate Bingo041 point about view switching. Head tracker would be the way forward here surely; well that's the plan for my next investment hopefully.
        Last edited by Beemwan; 03May2022, 23:57. Reason: Signature
        David Dempster

        Comment


          #7
          Originally posted by Beemwan View Post

          This is the procedure I use, with the exception of item 3 being magneto to both then ignition booster.

          I appreciate Bingo041 point about view switching. Head tracker would be the way forward here surely; well that's the plan for my next investment hopefully.
          Thank you, I was doing it wrong…backwards from the manual! I went back and edited my comment to be correct in case someone reads it in the future
          Last edited by MattS; 04May2022, 11:40.
          Matt Smith

          Comment


            #8
            Unpopular opinion: With boost pump on low, start select on the appropriate engine, magneto off, I:
            1. Boost Switch On
            2. Start Switch On
            3. 9 Blades, Magnetos on Both
            4. Prime Switch
            5. Engine catches, fuel to Auto Rich
            The POH on page 161 says the following:
            The engine starter selector switch must be out of the “OFF” position and set to the engine to be started before the start switch or the prime switch will function. The safety switch must be held in the ON (aft) position and the boost switch must be depressed before the start switch will function.
            I don't think that's too different from RSR's start procedure, I followed his to the letter until I found the above snippet so I think the only difference is Boost at the beginning instead of the end.

            While I was at it I dug up what I thought was the relevant quote re: starting with the engines in idle cutoff, you can read that on p.166 under Priming System.
            Regards,
            --Joe Markowski

            In my defense, I was left unsupervised.

            Comment


              #9
              Originally posted by jsmarko3 View Post
              Unpopular opinion: With boost pump on low, start select on the appropriate engine, magneto off, I:
              1. Boost Switch On
              2. Start Switch On
              3. 9 Blades, Magnetos on Both
              4. Prime Switch
              5. Engine catches, fuel to Auto Rich
              The POH on page 161 says the following:


              I don't think that's too different from RSR's start procedure, I followed his to the letter until I found the above snippet so I think the only difference is Boost at the beginning instead of the end.

              While I was at it I dug up what I thought was the relevant quote re: starting with the engines in idle cutoff, you can read that on p.166 under Priming System.

              The procedure I posted (once corrected) is directly out of an airline’s manual. That said there may be multiple ways to skin this cat depending on specific equipment installs and preferences of Chief Pilots and engineering departments…the timing of when to click the ignition booster or when/how much to prime etc can have multiple right answers.

              The thing that is ALWAYS wrong would be not driving the propeller through enough turns to ensure that it isn’t hydro-locked and to pre-oil it (typically 6 blades for each, but that varies by conditions - as few as 6 total for a warm start and 15 for extreme cold wx) either by intentionally causing ignition or accidentally allowing ignition to happen prematurely by allowing air, fuel, and spark to join the party before the blade count is done.

              Specific to the procedure you listed above, in the real world manual you would NOT want to turn the magnetos on after only 9 blades because the pre-oiling would not quite be finished (unless the engine had only been shut down for an hour or less in which case 6 blades to avoid hydro-lock is sufficient). As soon as you flip the switch the engine could potentially fire up with the engines only half-way pre-oiled or worse.
              Matt Smith

              Comment


              • jsmarko3
                jsmarko3 commented
                Editing a comment
                I've been meaning to reach out to the Douglas archivist at work and see if she has anything on the DC-6 still. I would hope so.

              • MattS
                MattS commented
                Editing a comment
                jsmarko3 that would be awesome if they did! My total understanding of this comes from one FCOM 🫠
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