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How to start engines in cold weather? (MSFS2020)

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    How to start engines in cold weather? (MSFS2020)

    So I just registered to ask this single question: How to start the engines in cold weather (<0°C OAT)?

    There is just no single tutorial or guide on how to do this. Im using realistic engine start and AFE for pre-start items. I turn Mixture 3 to RICH, main booster pump 3 LOW, check ENG 3 fuel Press, click start, wait for 9, turn on ignition 3, then PRIME and BOOST, the engine fires, goes to 900 RPM and then dies again. And its the same for every other engine.

    Engines are fine in the maintenance page. BTW its exactly the same without realistic engine start. And yes fuel is loaded

    Also the procedure in the POH is not working, because oil dillution is kindof useless in the simulator. I tried some different ones but none works.

    In the DC-3 in X-Plane I could use the fuel pump ON/OFF to keep the engine running until temps are fine and it can run by itself. How to do it in the DC-6 and why it is nowhere described?

    I would love to see heating covers in the Ramp menu which get oil temp up in something like 10-20min

    Cheers in advance
    Last edited by St54Kevin; 22Dec2021, 10:07.
    Kevin Karas

    #2
    I just found out that the engine fires and dies also without mixture and boost/prime. It is exactlx the same behaviors as with those. So I guess it has a problem with getting fuel. Tanks are full and selector is on MAIN/ON. Fuel pressure is also present.

    When going back to menu, changing OAT to 15C and reloading in, it just works fine
    Last edited by St54Kevin; 22Dec2021, 10:35.
    Kevin Karas

    Comment


      #3
      Hello,

      PMDG want you to put your full names in posts. You can create a signature to make it easy.

      I haven't tried it myself yet, however try these and see if it works;

      1. Try a cold start procedure where you prime at 12 and boost at 15. It is a cold soak start procedure for a current cold wx DC6 operator.
      2. Remember that oil dilution only works before shut down on your previous arrival. Meaning, you can't say. Hey, it's cold outside, so let me
      dilute the oil and try to start. It works when the engine is hot and you suspect that the next start will be a cold soak start.
      3. I guess what I would do if step 1. does not work is to indeed start the frame on the runway at departure airport. That would load with the engines running.
      I would then do the proper oil dilution procedure, then finish with the engines shut down. Exit to main menu, then load a new flight with that same frame
      at a parking spot. According to PMDG's manual, this frame is now properly set up for a cold start. Try a normal start procedure. If that does not work, try
      step 1. again (now with diluted oil). This step (3) would not only maximize your chances of starting, but also would test if PMDG's oil dilution is modeled
      like it should.

      Good Luck ...
      First Officer Boeing 777 - Xander Koote

      Comment


        #4
        Hey Kevin;

        I just fired my engines up in very cold temps up in Russia, no problem.

        I captured some raw video of how I do it:

        https://www.dropbox.com/s/etz3f6pyen...42-08.mp4?dl=0

        I'll be on the road most of the day today but if you have any questions I can help you this evening .
        Last edited by MattS; 22Dec2021, 11:54.
        Matt Smith

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by MD82 View Post
          Hello,

          PMDG want you to put your full names in posts. You can create a signature to make it easy.

          I haven't tried it myself yet, however try these and see if it works;

          1. Try a cold start procedure where you prime at 12 and boost at 15. It is a cold soak start procedure for a current cold wx DC6 operator.
          2. Remember that oil dilution only works before shut down on your previous arrival. Meaning, you can't say. Hey, it's cold outside, so let me
          dilute the oil and try to start. It works when the engine is hot and you suspect that the next start will be a cold soak start.
          3. I guess what I would do if step 1. does not work is to indeed start the frame on the runway at departure airport. That would load with the engines running.
          I would then do the proper oil dilution procedure, then finish with the engines shut down. Exit to main menu, then load a new flight with that same frame
          at a parking spot. According to PMDG's manual, this frame is now properly set up for a cold start. Try a normal start procedure. If that does not work, try
          step 1. again (now with diluted oil). This step (3) would not only maximize your chances of starting, but also would test if PMDG's oil dilution is modeled
          like it should.

          Good Luck ...
          Thanks for your answer.

          1. Is not working.
          2. Yes i know, thats why its not an option for me because I have to do it EVERY time i start a flight in winter in Europe.

          Something weird is also that when I load a different livery in cold weather, oil temp is at 40C. I cant figure out when the plance loads cold and when it loads warm. Its inconsistent. Sometimes it loads cold (thats when engine start is not working) and sometime it loads with oil temp 40C, where I can even let it drop below 0C by waiting and it still works
          Kevin Karas

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by MattS View Post
            Hey Kevin;

            I just fired my engines up in very cold temps up in Russia, no problem.

            I captured some raw video of how I do it:

            https://www.dropbox.com/s/etz3f6pyen...42-08.mp4?dl=0

            I'll be on the road most of the day today but if you have any questions I can help you this evening .
            Hey Matt, your plane is not cold. Your oil temp is nearly 40°C, thats why it fires without problems. In my case, everything was cold. Im currently not able to replicate the cold plane state. There must be some kind of a bug
            Last edited by St54Kevin; 22Dec2021, 12:02.
            Kevin Karas

            Comment


              #7
              To tell you the truth I am only flying her in P3D until our tour finishes. I have very limited MSFS time in her. Wish I could be of more help.
              It would be a nice EFB addition and check that the AFE did a proper oil dilution before you arrived at the airplane :-) Although I would gladly
              do it myself, SIM ops means you might arrive into Death Valley in your previous flight, and depart out of Cold Bay on your next. Making the Oil
              Dilution procedure more of a nuisance. Notwithstanding PMDG's best intentions, and my personal appreciation for them for simulating it.
              Last edited by MD82; 22Dec2021, 12:14.
              First Officer Boeing 777 - Xander Koote

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by MD82 View Post
                To tell you the truth I am only flying her in P3D until our tour finishes. I have very limited MSFS time in her. Wish I could be of more help.
                Yes I guess its a bug with MSFS. But it happened ALOT to me in cold weather in this plane and its getting annoying. Especially because I cannot replicate. I just loaded couple of scenarios and in every one it works. One time I clicked the Cold and Dark state button in the EFB powered it up again and oil was at 0C. But it started nevertheless. Dont know if the problem lies somewhere there. Thanks for your help nevertheless
                Kevin Karas

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by St54Kevin View Post

                  Hey Matt, your plane is not cold. Your oil temp is nearly 40°C, thats why it fires without problems. In my case, everything was cold. Im currently not able to replicate the cold plane state. There must be some kind of a bug
                  Interesting - I figured something like that might be the case which is why I zoomed in on those engine gauges

                  I can’t seem to get my flights to start with the engine not already warmed up! And I do have “realistic start” selected so who knows ( ._.)

                  Maybe you need to hire my maintenance guys!
                  Matt Smith

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by St54Kevin View Post

                    Yes I guess its a bug with MSFS. But it happened ALOT to me in cold weather in this plane and its getting annoying. Especially because I cannot replicate. I just loaded couple of scenarios and in every one it works. One time I clicked the Cold and Dark state button in the EFB powered it up again and oil was at 0C. But it started nevertheless. Dont know if the problem lies somewhere there. Thanks for your help nevertheless
                    Hey Kevin - update...turns out I could get my plane into a cold state by selecting the "cold and dark" preset after beginning the flight at a gate.

                    Starting from freezing cold, my procedure still worked the first time. Maybe try it out exactly and see if it works on your system...

                    https://www.dropbox.com/s/95c64em89h...27-42.mp4?dl=0
                    Matt Smith

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by MattS View Post

                      Hey Kevin - update...turns out I could get my plane into a cold state by selecting the "cold and dark" preset after beginning the flight at a gate.

                      Starting from freezing cold, my procedure still worked the first time. Maybe try it out exactly and see if it works on your system...

                      https://www.dropbox.com/s/95c64em89h...27-42.mp4?dl=0
                      Yes figured out the same, BUT only if you do it directly after loading, if you power up the plane (oil jumps to 40C), then click the Cold and Dark button and power it on again, oil will not be 0C.

                      It must be something with the very first load of MSFS2020. I mean I ran into this problem alot this winter, but could never figure out why it happenes.
                      Kevin Karas

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Have you tried increasing the primer amount? I have started it in the polar circle a few weeks ago where it was at least below -10°C and I had to wait quite a while for the engines to reach 40°C in oil temperature for the prop cycling procedure. So I am quite sure the engines did start up cold.

                        In cold weather I apply the primer at about 6 blades or even earlier (with ground power enabled).
                        Also did you use ground power? Starter speed should be quite low on battery power in those conditions.
                        Lennart Biermann - i5 7600k, RTX2080S, 32GB RAM, Samsung 49" Ultrawide screen

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Mr.Mugel View Post
                          Have you tried increasing the primer amount? I have started it in the polar circle a few weeks ago where it was at least below -10°C and I had to wait quite a while for the engines to reach 40°C in oil temperature for the prop cycling procedure. So I am quite sure the engines did start up cold.

                          In cold weather I apply the primer at about 6 blades or even earlier (with ground power enabled).
                          Also did you use ground power? Starter speed should be quite low on battery power in those conditions.
                          I have basically tried every start procedure out there What I expected was some kind of "manually hold the engine firing" to up the oil temp and then let it run on its own. Like you can in a DC-3
                          Kevin Karas

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by St54Kevin View Post

                            Yes figured out the same, BUT only if you do it directly after loading, if you power up the plane (oil jumps to 40C), then click the Cold and Dark button and power it on again, oil will not be 0C.

                            It must be something with the very first load of MSFS2020. I mean I ran into this problem alot this winter, but could never figure out why it happenes.
                            Fortunately there’s really no good reason to power it up and then set it back to Cold & Dark lol.

                            Either way, by priming at 9 blades and hitting the ignition at 12 (a real world procedure btw) I have been able to start it very cold with no probs.

                            Edit: I'm not seeing the same issues here that you are. Even if I power up the aircraft previously, I can get a "cold oil" state by selecting "Cold & Dark."
                            Last edited by MattS; 22Dec2021, 20:53.
                            Matt Smith

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by St54Kevin View Post
                              So I just registered to ask this single question: How to start the engines in cold weather (<0°C OAT)?
                              Try to start the engines with fuel pumps in HIGH. It worked for me in P3D. Not sure if it will work in MSFS

                              Paulo M. Soares
                              SBKP
                              I-7 9700K @4.6 GHz / 32Gb RAM / RTX3090

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Originally posted by PMSoares View Post

                                Try to start the engines with fuel pumps in HIGH. It worked for me in P3D. Not sure if it will work in MSFS
                                That's the first thing I tried when I suspected something with fuel. But it also did not work. The next time it happens I will record a video of it
                                Kevin Karas

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Yesterday I fired up all 4 engines at Goose Bay, OAT ~ -20°C. I found that the GPU lacks some "oumpf" sometimes. For me, the engines start right up once I switched to plane battery.

                                  Daniel Helgenberger

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Let us have a look into a real Everts Air Cargo POI handbook about the topic extreme cold operations:

                                    Screenshot_1032.png

                                    Screenshot_1033.png

                                    Screenshot_1034.png







                                    Have a good flight, Linden Shenandoah 🐱

                                    Comment

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