Announcement

Collapse

PMDG Forum Rules

1) SIGN YOUR POSTS. Since 1997, we have asked users to sign their real name, first and last, to all posts in the PMDG forum. We do this in order to keep conversations personal and familiar. You took the time to be here, we want to get to know you. This is one of the few rigid rules that we enforce regularly. We do so because we feel that forums in which users must engage one another personally are generally warmer, more collegial and friendly. Posts that are unsigned will be quietly removed without comment by the moderators, so to make your life easy- we recommend enabling your forum signature so that you never need to remember. Do this by clicking the username pull-down at the top right, then selecting "User Settings." You will find the signature editor on the ACCOUNT tab, about half way down the page. Look for "Edit Post Signature." Be sure to click the "Show Signatures" box.

2) BE NICE. We are all simmers here and no matter our differences of opinion, we share a common love of aviation, computing and simulation. Treat everyone else in the forum with respect even when you disagree. If someone frustrates you, walk away from the conversation or ask for a moderator to get involved. Speaking of Moderators, they prefer not to be treated as "The Thought Police" but if any behavior infringes on the enjoyment of another user or is otherwise considered to be unacceptable in the moderator's judgment, it will be addressed in keeping with our view of ensuring that this forum remains a healthy environment for all simmers.

3) BE LAWFUL: Any behavior that infringes upon the law, such as discussion or solicitation of piracy, threats, intimidation or abuse will be handled unsympathetically by the moderators. Threats and intimidation may, at the moderator's discretion, be provided to law enforcement for handling.

4) BE FACTUAL: When you post, always be factual. Moderators will remove posts that are determined not to be factually accurate.

5) RESPECT COPYRIGHTS: Posting of copyrighted material such as flight manuals owned by Boeing or various airlines is not allowed in this forum. If you have questions related to copyrighted material, please contact a forum moderator for clarification.

6) RESPECT PMDG: We love to hear what you like about our products. We also like to hear what you think can be improved, or what isn't working. Please do tell us and we will always treat your feedback with value. Just be sure to treat the team respectfully, as they do put a significant amount of effort into building and maintaining these great simulation products for you.

7) RESPECT PMDG DEVELOPERS: All of the developers will spend some time here. Given the ratio of developers-to-users, it simply isn't possible for us to answer every post and private message individually. Please know that we do try to read everything, but developer workload is simply too high to manage personal contact with tens-of-thousands of users simultaneously. In most cases, members of the development team will stick to conversations in the forum and will not answer private messages.

8) RESPECT OTHER DEVELOPERS: PMDG has always advocated for a strong development community and we have many friends within this community. Every developer offers something unique that helps to make the simming community larger and more vibrant. We insist that you treat our friends respectfully.

9) RESPECT MODERATORS: Moderators have a tough job, and none of them enjoy having to stomp out negativity. If a moderator has to weigh in to keep a thread peaceful, please respect that effort and refrain from giving the moderator any grief.

10) If you require official support for any of our products please open a support ticket through the support portal, https://support.precisionmanuals.com

11) This forum is designed primarily as a vehicle for the PMDG development team to interact with our customers, and for customers to interact with one another in a manner that is positive, supportive and assists in the general advancement of understanding the simulation and helping to make this and future simulations better. Any other use of this forum is not permitted, including but not limited to discussion of pricing policies, business practices, forum moderating policies, advertising of non-PMDG products, promotion of events, services or products that are not approved in advance by PMDG or any other topic deemed unacceptable by any forum administrator

12) HAVE FUN: This is the whole point of it all.
See more
See less

[24NOV21] Xbox Users: Important Update and Trouble-Shooting Process

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    [24NOV21] Xbox Users: Important Update and Trouble-Shooting Process

    Captains,

    This update relates ONLY to users of the PMDG DC-6 for MSFS on the Xbox platform. None of the information contained here applies to PC users.

    Short Attention Span Summary:
    PMDG and the Microsoft Flight Simulator for Xbox QA team have spent today conferring on data collected from Xbox users who report being unable to interact with switches/buttons/knobs in the cockpit of the DC-6 when flying on the Xbox platform.

    We have reason to believe that the problem is global to all Xbox users, and that it exists on Xbox units "in the wild" but is not present on any PC based units, nor in the Xbox testing environment.

    Microsoft and Asobo have a few leads that they are evaluating, and PMDG are supporting the effort with continued data and knowledge of the product. Research continues in spite of the US holiday weekend with collaboration between PMDG, Asobo and Xbox QA.

    PMDG have asked Microsoft to temporarily suspend sales of the PMDG DC-6 for MSFS on the Xbox platform until a cause and resolution is determined.

    Once further information is available we will publish it here, to include identification of the source of the problem when it is found, any mitigation steps that a user can take, if any, and of course an expectation on a fix once that is known.

    Our current interpretation of the data we have seems to indicate that there is a slight difference between the PC/Xbox version that is making the DC-6 unhappy, but this unhappniess gets masked by the Xbox test environment. Once the cause is known, we can adapt the airplane if needed, or Asobo can adapt the platform- but either way we will get the airplane up and running happily on Xbox.


    Longer, Wordier Version:
    During the day today, we have continued to collect information from customers via this forum and via our technical support team. We have also been collecting information from non-PMDG locations and discussion groups, amalgamating that information and reporting information back to the Microsoft Flight Simulator for Xbox QA team, in hopes of determining why some users are experiencing problems interacting with the DC-6 or indeed getting the DC-6 to operate at all on the Xbox platform.

    This effort culminated in a collaborative call between the PMDG team and the Microsoft team at 2100Z/24NOV. During this call, Microsoft reported that they were able to replicate the problem during internal testing, and that the replication capability was 100%, meaning that once they knew how to replicate the issue they were able to do so with consistency. (This is good!)

    We were able to confirm that the problem does not exist on the PC side, even when using Xbox hardware to control the aircraft, and we were also able to confirm that the problem likewise does not appear when testing on normal Xbox test gear, which is the usual testing environment for MSFS DLC.

    One point of discussion in the call was that the failure mode does not appear in the test environment, but does appear outside the test environment, suggesting that there is something about the test environment that is masking the problem until the xbox hardware is removed from the test environment and begins to behave as it would "in the wild." This (to our minds) explains why the problem didn't exist until after release of the product, since the testing naturally occurs in a testing environment. (duh)

    A second point of discussion, and one that we spent all day working with, was that the normal presentation of a fault in a product release makes it easy to determine that the problem affects a sub-group of users, or ALL users. Typically we are able to capture global problems well before release, and identifying sub-group problems is typically supported by simply verifying that other users are enjoying success. This then sets us on a path to determine "what do the sub-group users have in common?" and from there it is typically a fast drive to a solution.

    In this instance, we initially heard from around 8-10% of users that they were experiencing problems, and that number has remained largely consistent throughout the day- except that we have been unable to verify that any users are enjoying success with the DC-6 in the wild- and the lack of confirmation along this data point has been a source of concern because it changes the scope of the investigation from "we are looking for a unique problem" to "something in the test environment masks a global problem."

    Those are two VERY different problem solving paradigms and the inability to determine which we are dealing with means that we have to take the most conservative approach and presume that the problem affects ALL Xbox customers.

    On this discussion point, Microsoft was also unable to ascertain an actual success/failure rate- and thus we felt it was prudent to take the DC-6 off of Xbox sales temporarily while we continue to investigate the issue.

    To that end, Microsoft's US based teams are on holiday Thu-Sun, but the MS/Asobo European teams will continue to work through the issue. To support them, the PMDG team will be working with them throughout in order to ensure that we are available to support their trouble-shooting effort.

    Once we have a solution- it will get rolled out to Xbox customers as rapidly as possible in order to get you back flying, and once the fix is confirmed we will once again make the DC-6 available for sale on the Xbox platform.


    In Closing:
    To forestall anyone thinking "Well, nobody really tests this stuff" please allow me to assure you that you would be impressed by the professionalism and focus on the QA team with whom we are working on the Microsoft side. On our end, we held the DC-6 back from Marketplace in order to ensure it was stable and ready- and on their side it went through an entire QA process that was at times quite nit-picky. The discussions have been factual, blunt and laser-focused on the singular goal to eliminate problems for customers.

    As the head of PMDG, I am obviously frustrated that something outside of our ability to detect has hampered the user experience- I am also really energized by the support and professionalism with which Microsoft is supporting PMDG and YOU our customer. This bodes really well for the platform and our ability to bring the entire range of PMDG products to both PC and Xbox users of MSFS.

    For those who are affected, please accept my apology for dangling the DC-6 in front of you and then asking you to delay your flying. Given the commonality between the PC and Xbox platforms, I think all of us are a bit surprised to discover that something in the well established Xbox testing process is succeeding in masking a problem that presents itself in the wild.

    But we are working with our partners at Microsoft and Asobo to find/fix it. And we will- of that much, I am confident.

    We will keep you posted as the process unfolds- and I'll be sure to tell you what it is that we find. I think all of us are interested!


    Robert S. Randazzo
    PMDG Simulations
    http://www.pmdg.com



    #2
    Thanks a lot for the information. I highly appreciate how much effort goes into a quick but stable solution.
    Yours from Switzerland,

    Stephan

    Comment


      #3
      Well, this work as a new experience to avoid this to happen in a future with the PMDG releases for xbox. Loving the work PMDG is doing! And thanks for the information
      Diego Pérez

      Comment


        #4
        Appreciate all the hard work PMDG is doing to get this resolved, it also isn't lost on me the magnitude of finding that the test xbox's are masking issues, this could cause issues across all xbox addons so finding that issue is also a massive achievement for the entire sim.

        Rest assured as soon as the issues are resolved I'll be certainly buying this.

        Comment


          #5
          Hello, thanks for the information. My question: is there a user at all for whom everything works on a "normal" Xbox? Why is the test environment different from a standard Xbox? The error would also have occurred with a test on a standard Xbox! I use an Xbox Series X with an original controller, USB mouse and keyboard. What does a test environment look like ??? Thanks and greetings Klaus

          Comment


            #6
            It is a pity that so much money has been frozen until the defect is eliminated. It is not enough to just buy one xbox, just like every user, download a plane and find out that it does not work? This test environment must be detached from reality because after each update something does not work and these are very basic things, like a mouse or avionics in airplanes. In any case, I am counting on a quick solution to the problem and maybe some small compensation. regards

            Comment


              #7
              Customer care as it should be. Gives me a lot of confidence to buy future PMDG Xbox products as I know you guys care. Thanks

              Comment


                #8
                Many thanks for update, the DC-6 is truly a thing of beauty, hopefully I can get to fly her soon, in the meantime, I'll continue to just gaze at it on tarmac lol.
                Dave Coombs
                Last edited by Oscardog1970; 30Nov2021, 12:20.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by ICEman511 View Post
                  Hello, thanks for the information. My question: is there a user at all for whom everything works on a "normal" Xbox? Why is the test environment different from a standard Xbox? The error would also have occurred with a test on a standard Xbox! I use an Xbox Series X with an original controller, USB mouse and keyboard. What does a test environment look like ??? Thanks and greetings Klaus
                  you can‘t test on a normal, open xbox, that‘s the big problem. A console environment, XBox or Playstation is the same, can not be accessed by developers to test their product. The console is a highly vulnerable system with no other anti malware protection other than its closed nature. Microsoft have to check and make sure that there is no harm coming from any file they release into this environment. So a console has a testing mode that is (I believe) completely seperated from the network. Why it‘s different needs to be asked to Microsoft but I guess it‘s simply an oversight. But it might explain some issues customers have had with flightsim releases and non working aircraft. If that‘s true I find it remarkable that it requires PMDG to find the problem.
                  i7-6700k, GTX 1080TI, 32GB DDR4 RAM @2666MHz, 4k
                  Marc Ehnle

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I understand that a test environment is required for working on a software. But before a software is released, I as the manufacturer must have tested it at least once on a console (Xbox) before the customer can buy the goods! Greetings Klaus

                    Comment


                      #11
                      rueful smile -- as a retired Test Engineer I understand the issue very well. Writing up tests is a hard won skill.

                      Thank you for keeping your users up to date and in the loop. I'm positive you'll come out of this a better company.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Thank you so much for the detailed feedback that you have provided.

                        I am sure that this will make future releases much easier and I am looking forward to the entire PMDG fleet of aircrafts in my hangar.

                        I am currently sitting in the cockpit of my temporarily grounded DC6, with all the manuals, and can’t wait to start the engines for the first time!!

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Thanks for that information. Its highly appreciated how this problem is communicated.
                          This will also help both (MS / Asobo and PMDG) with future products and probably helps iron out an issue for other devs as well.

                          In the meantime i will go through the Tutorial Videos and Manual to be ready once we are able to fly the plane.
                          Keep up the good work and open Communication. Thanks
                          - Carsten Eulenbach

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I have been away from home a few days and have just discovered that the DC6 is coming to Xbox!.I am ecstatic about this as I mostly bought an Xbox in the hope you would eventually bring it to the console,so for me I can wait a bit longer for it to be back on Marketplace,just so pleased it is coming!

                            Comment


                              #15
                              At least the DC6 can be flown at a basic level via the external camera and the throttle buttons on the Xbox. Looks and sounds excellent in the air. Can't wait for a fully working aircraft!

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Originally posted by gfilip View Post
                                Customer care as it should be. Gives me a lot of confidence to buy future PMDG Xbox products as I know you guys care. Thanks
                                Agree. Love this transparent communication.

                                Laurent Andre

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Hi Team PMDG.

                                  Thanks for all the above information, I feel like we're in good hands.

                                  Like many of us here I am one of your customers who bought the DC-6 DLC for Xbox in a heartbeat as soon as it was available on the MSFS Marketplace. After picking myself up off the floor on seeing the Air Atlantique Livery I quickly realised there was a serious problem with the plane whilst sat on the runway.

                                  I know its easier said than done in most cases but just one player of the sim could have identified the issues in a very short period of time given the chance to test the DLC before it hit the Marketplace. I'm guessing that this issue has been one for the lessons learned file from all perspectives.

                                  I have a good few followers of my Twitch Channel waiting on a fix before they buy the DC-6 after I advised them via my discord channel that there was a serious issue with the DLC.

                                  May I ask, what kind of timescales are we looking at to fix the issues and have the DC-6 put back onto the marketplace? Again, like many others, I've put £45 down on a product I currently cant use and I'm hoping for a swift turnaround.

                                  I look forward to your updates team.

                                  Many thanks.

                                  LeShark.
                                  Last edited by LeShark75; 28Nov2021, 21:40.
                                  Find me on Twitch - https://www.twitch.tv/leshark75

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    What is new regarding DC-6 for Xbox please? I do not see any updates since 24th of November.
                                    When can we expect fix?

                                    Thanks

                                    Comment


                                    • DDowns
                                      DDowns commented
                                      Editing a comment
                                      Ask Microsoft/Asobo. Ball is in their court.

                                    #19
                                    Any kind of support for third party add-ons are provided by developers. Not by Microsoft or Asobo. So I am asking here.

                                    Comment


                                      #20
                                      Originally posted by PetrPodzimek View Post
                                      Any kind of support for third party add-ons are provided by developers. Not by Microsoft or Asobo. So I am asking here.
                                      You missed Roberts lengthy explanation. Microsoft has reported that they can reporduce the problem and it's not the DC-6. Please read his post #1 this thread. Thank you.
                                      Dan Downs KCRP
                                      i7-10700K 32GB 3600MHz 2080Ti

                                      Comment


                                        #21
                                        Originally posted by DDowns View Post

                                        You missed Roberts lengthy explanation. Microsoft has reported that they can reporduce the problem and it's not the DC-6. Please read his post #1 this thread. Thank you.
                                        Yes I read that:

                                        He wrote: 24Nov2021, 23:37
                                        We will keep you posted as the process unfolds- and I'll be sure to tell you what it is that we find. I think all of us are interested!

                                        There should be something new after 5 days. Or not?

                                        Comment


                                        • DDowns
                                          DDowns commented
                                          Editing a comment
                                          The ball is not in PMDG court, they do not control the time line for now.

                                        #22
                                        Originally posted by PetrPodzimek View Post

                                        Yes I read that:

                                        He wrote: 24Nov2021, 23:37
                                        We will keep you posted as the process unfolds- and I'll be sure to tell you what it is that we find. I think all of us are interested!

                                        There should be something new after 5 days. Or not?
                                        Do not forget that MS is US based, so they were closed on Thursday/Friday for Thanks Giving holidays. When we have an update from their side we will share it.
                                        Chris Makris (Olympic260)
                                        PMDG Technical Support
                                        http://www.pmdg.com

                                        Comment


                                          #23
                                          Really appreciate the honest explanations from the PMDG team and the hard work going into fixing this issue. I think we are all extremely anxious to get this plane in the air and hopefully some good news will come this week!
                                          Michael Spinuzzi

                                          Comment


                                            #24
                                            Originally posted by cmakris View Post

                                            Do not forget that MS is US based, so they were closed on Thursday/Friday for Thanks Giving holida
                                            Us Bank holiday was on 25th only. Asobo is based in France - so no holidays this month.

                                            Comment


                                              #25
                                              Originally posted by PetrPodzimek View Post

                                              Us Bank holiday was on 25th only. Asobo is based in France - so no holidays this month.
                                              What I wrote is what is the case. XBOX is an MS console not an Asobo one. You asked for an update I gave you what we know. I do not see the reason for the follow up message.

                                              And please sign your posts with full first and last name as per rules. Thank you.
                                              Chris Makris (Olympic260)
                                              PMDG Technical Support
                                              http://www.pmdg.com

                                              Comment


                                                #26
                                                To be fair Robert from PMDG in the original post said himself that Asobo would be working on the issue as they were not on holiday:

                                                QUOTE
                                                To that end, Microsoft's US based teams are on holiday Thu-Sun, but the MS/Asobo European teams will continue to work through the issue. To support them, the PMDG team will be working with them throughout in order to ensure that we are available to support their trouble-shooting effort.
                                                UNQUOTE

                                                I had certainly been expecting an update from PMDG before now.

                                                Richard Crozier-Jobber

                                                Comment


                                                • Spinoochi
                                                  Spinoochi commented
                                                  Editing a comment
                                                  Agreed, I guess I was a little too confident this would be a quick fix based on the ability to replicate the problem on the MS side. Hopefully we hear something soon but the longer it drags on the less confident I am this is an easy fix (see the Global Shipping add on pulled from the Xbox marketplace, yet to be republished or updated).

                                                #27
                                                I will say the reason a few of us keep asking about updates on this forum is because Rob is the only person to actually acknowledge the problem (i.e. nothing from the MS/Asobo team). I really do hope we hear something soon, starting to feel like MS is hanging us out to dry. We’ve begged MS/Asobo for updates on their forum with absolutely no luck, so any updates from the PMDG team would be greatly appreciated.

                                                Thanks again for the hard work on this issue and the great customer support you have been providing (seriously!). Unfortunately we (I) can not say the same thing about the company on the other end of this equation.
                                                Last edited by Spinoochi; 30Nov2021, 14:56.
                                                Michael Spinuzzi

                                                Comment


                                                  #28
                                                  In practical terms US team is needed so probably there is some work from monday this week. I would expect some news later this week.

                                                  Comment


                                                  • Spinoochi
                                                    Spinoochi commented
                                                    Editing a comment
                                                    I get it, but I literally just had a topic closed on the MSFS forums for directly asking for an update and what would be done in the future to ensure this does not happen again. That’s the type of customer support we’re receiving on that end..

                                                  #29
                                                  After 1 week we have nothing than bill from MSFS Marketplace!
                                                  I hope PMDG enjoy our money.
                                                  Bye.

                                                  Comment


                                                    #30
                                                    Originally posted by PetrPodzimek View Post
                                                    After 1 week we have nothing than bill from MSFS Marketplace!
                                                    I hope PMDG enjoy our money.
                                                    Bye.
                                                    It’s only been one and bit days since the thanksgiving giving holiday…..

                                                    Comment

                                                    Working...
                                                    X