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Has the rendering pipeline been re-enabled?

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    Has the rendering pipeline been re-enabled?

    Hi,

    Several updates ago there was an announcement that the rendering pipeline had changed and as such fps on the DC-6 has been reduced. I only want to use the DC-6 but for now I am holding off until this functionality has been reimplemented.

    Can anyone confirm whether or not Asobo have reenabled the feature with the latest update? I am unable to test myself as the sim is uninstalled at the moment.

    Thanks

    Luke Bennell

    #2
    From reports and what RSR has said, there was no change in SU7, however SU8 is a massive bug fixing update and hopefully it will appear in SU8
    Joe Colehouse EGCC

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by LukeB View Post
      Hi,

      Several updates ago there was an announcement that the rendering pipeline had changed and as such fps on the DC-6 has been reduced. I only want to use the DC-6 but for now I am holding off until this functionality has been reimplemented.

      Can anyone confirm whether or not Asobo have reenabled the feature with the latest update? I am unable to test myself as the sim is uninstalled at the moment.

      Thanks

      Luke Bennell
      No it has not been enabled officially, it can be manually enabled but this can be done only on developer menu and only if the developers menu is active, that means that no logbook time will be counted.

      Chris Makris (Olympic260)
      PMDG Technical Support
      http://www.pmdg.com

      Comment


        #4
        Well I am seeing an average of 10fps LESS in the DC6 on su7 and after any flight over 1.5 hours my FPS continues to fall. Don't get me wrong here I love this plane but performance is dropping with every update. Now the memory leak DOES seem to be effecting all planes and on average I am 5-10 FPS lower this update. However of all my planes again the DC6 took the worst of it. I have stopped flying it again. No offense to anyone either but I am going to have to hold off on the 737 for now. Unless I can see some improvement with the DC6 moving forward I am canceling orders for 737s in my fleet.

        I am continuing to test and looks like I am going to have to pull this driver the way things are going. If I can solve the issues on my own then I will report back and update of course but so far I am not having a great time on su7. Hopefully this is a problem on my end and I can just swap this driver and magically everything will work but I am skeptical. Still going to do some tests today on stock aircraft and behavior. I need more data.
        Last edited by KWAiRT; 23Nov2021, 13:59.
        Kurt Meyer - Tech \ Tester \ Modder \ Voice Actor - BC Canada
        i7 8086K \ Asus Maximus X\ Corsair H115i - iQUE CMDR \ 32GB Corsair RGB 3600 CAS16 \ 1TBx2 970 M.2 \ EVGA 1080ti FTW 11GB - Nvidia 466.27 \ ASUS GSYNC 240Hz @1080p \ XBOX OEM Wired Controller - Mouse and Keyboard \ MS Store Microsoft Flight Sim - 1000 + Hours FT \ Navblue + Navigraph + OnAir \ Windows 10 Pro 2004 Build 19041.1237

        Comment


        • Mr.Mugel
          Mr.Mugel commented
          Editing a comment
          Are you using DX12? I have terrible performance if it´s enabled but if I turn it off I had some performance increase with SU7 on my end. Running pretty smooth now.

        #5
        Originally posted by cmakris View Post

        No it has not been enabled officially, it can be manually enabled but this can be done only on developer menu and only if the developers menu is active, that means that no logbook time will be counted.
        This is very interesting. The logbook doesn't interest me at all so I'd happily give this a go. Would you be so kind as to tell me what option to enable, if you know? I can figure out how to enable development mode myself. Even if I could hit 10fps more (capped at 30 atm) I'd be really happy.

        Comment


          #6
          Originally posted by LukeB View Post

          This is very interesting. The logbook doesn't interest me at all so I'd happily give this a go. Would you be so kind as to tell me what option to enable, if you know? I can figure out how to enable development mode myself. Even if I could hit 10fps more (capped at 30 atm) I'd be really happy.
          You need to go to Options -> General Options -> Developers and set the Developer Mode to ON and save,

          Then when you load the plane from the developer menu select Options use NanoVg for XML gauges.

          Please note again that this is experimental so crashes or not correct flying experience might occur
          Chris Makris (Olympic260)
          PMDG Technical Support
          http://www.pmdg.com

          Comment


            #7
            About 10fps gain with that feature enable.
            Claude Desrosiers

            Comment


              #8
              Originally posted by cmakris View Post

              You need to go to Options -> General Options -> Developers and set the Developer Mode to ON and save,

              Then when you load the plane from the developer menu select Options use NanoVg for XML gauges.

              Please note again that this is experimental so crashes or not correct flying experience might occur
              Thanks very much for this - I'll give it a go.

              Luke Bennell

              Comment


                #9
                Even I currently not flying the dc-6 until the rendering pipeline is implemented officially. And I will purchase the 737 only if this issue resolved. Currently the dc-6 poor fps in the cockpit makes it unflyable.
                Doshi Kevin
                Computer Science graduate

                Comment


                  #10
                  Originally posted by cmakris View Post

                  You need to go to Options -> General Options -> Developers and set the Developer Mode to ON and save,

                  Then when you load the plane from the developer menu select Options use NanoVg for XML gauges.

                  Please note again that this is experimental so crashes or not correct flying experience might occur
                  I tried this it is a game changer. Before it was 25 fps in the cockpit then after I followed your steps I am getting 55-60 fps in the cockpit. Thanks
                  Doshi Kevin
                  Computer Science graduate

                  Comment


                    #11
                    Works fine in VR too. Only glitch I noticed is that the radio numerals are bigger...too big the the space on the radios, and they run off the right edge a tiny bit. However they are much easier to read now.

                    Did a whole flight across Texas, no problems.
                    Mitch Loescher

                    Comment


                      #12
                      GPU is fully utilized after this setting.
                      You do not have permission to view this gallery.
                      This gallery has 1 photos.
                      Doshi Kevin
                      Computer Science graduate

                      Comment


                        #13
                        WOW that runs so much better!!!

                        I'm so happy right now. Shame about the log hours but god knows I'm missing like 2 or 3 hundred already whatever.

                        Hopefully Asobo will implement this soon! This was 80% of the reason I didn't fly the DC-6 anymore (20% being that she's a slow bird ).

                        Thank you!!
                        Cesar Perez

                        Comment


                          #14
                          Just tried this. I didn't have massive FPS drops compared to other aircraft like the other posters, but my FPS is generally low around 25 FPS.
                          Enabling this gave me only about +3 FPS - but hey I take it...!
                          Dirk Flachbart

                          Comment


                          • Vicinian
                            Vicinian commented
                            Editing a comment
                            What are your specs? If they're low then it's probably just that you need to upgrade.

                            I went from a CPU bottleneck to a GPU one, which is great because my GPU is indeed the weaker of the two (Ryzen 7 3700x vs GTX 1070; went from around 35 FPS in EGLC to around 45).

                          • woodstock327
                            woodstock327 commented
                            Editing a comment
                            Yeah definitely also have a GPU bottleneck (when I bought my new rig any better GPUs already weren't available any more). I have a 5600x and a 1660 Super (seem comparable to your setup), so dunno why my FPS is so low...

                          #15
                          Interesting thread!!! Does this workaround affect *all* aircraft, or some more than others (the DC-6 being an obvious example)?
                          Adam Banks (Adamski_NZ) : http://www.nzfsim.org

                          Comment


                            #16
                            Wow! You guys were not lying. from 30fps on the ground up to 60fps. Its like a new simulator. So pleased - time to learn this thing. Thanks again.

                            Luke Bennell

                            Comment


                              #17
                              Does DEV mode need to remain enabled after selecting the option? Or can we turn it off. Also, should we start with a default cessna or something, then load the DC6? How do we start a flight, exactly?
                              John F. Smith
                              B747-400/8 Pilot

                              Comment


                                #18
                                Originally posted by V1ROTA7E View Post
                                Does DEV mode need to remain enabled after selecting the option? Or can we turn it off. Also, should we start with a default cessna or something, then load the DC6? How do we start a flight, exactly?
                                The Dev mode needs to remain enabled, if you exit the dev mode this reverts the sim back to the default rendering engine. Just load the DC6 as you normally do and after it loads enable this option in the dev memu
                                Chris Makris (Olympic260)
                                PMDG Technical Support
                                http://www.pmdg.com

                                Comment


                                • V1ROTA7E
                                  V1ROTA7E commented
                                  Editing a comment
                                  Thank you very much. Though, i'm finding live weather isn't working with Dev mode...do you notice the same?

                                • cmakris
                                  cmakris commented
                                  Editing a comment
                                  No works ok last time I checked

                                #19
                                Originally posted by Kevin Doshi View Post
                                Even I currently not flying the dc-6 until the rendering pipeline is implemented officially. And I will purchase the 737 only if this issue resolved. Currently the dc-6 poor fps in the cockpit makes it unflyable.
                                I’m surprised to hear this. Have you mentioned it before?
                                Matt Smith

                                Comment


                                  #20
                                  Originally posted by Kevin Doshi

                                  You have any issues with that??
                                  I don’t like you and I don’t think your entitled ultimatums serve any useful purpose.
                                  Matt Smith

                                  Comment


                                    #21
                                    This has made an incredible amount of difference to the performance. So smooth now.

                                    Just for feedback the GPS no longer works with the rendering pipeline enabled. A few people have reported this over at avsim.

                                    Many thanks for making us aware of the rendering pipeline option.
                                    Regards
                                    Michael Murray

                                    Comment


                                      #22
                                      Originally posted by Snowplow View Post
                                      Just for feedback the GPS no longer works with the rendering pipeline enabled. A few people have reported this over at avsim.
                                      I've had the rendering pipeline option enabled and haven't had any issues so far with the GPS, flown about 7 hours so far with the autopilot following a flight plan - although I did just try toggling it off and on again and that does cause the GPS to become unresponsive. Restarting the sim should give you GPS functionality back.

                                      Microsoft Flight Simulator Screenshot 2021.11.25 - 00.59.55.77.png

                                      Floyd Rigsby

                                      Comment


                                        #23
                                        [QUOTE=Floydrix;n153481]

                                        I've had the rendering pipeline option enabled and haven't had any issues so far with the GPS, flown about 7 hours so far with the autopilot following a flight plan - although I did just try toggling it off and on again and that does cause the GPS to become unresponsive. Restarting the sim should give you GPS functionality back.

                                        Great thank you Floyd. I will try again.
                                        Regards
                                        Michael Murray

                                        Comment


                                          #24
                                          Originally posted by MattS View Post

                                          I don’t like you and I don’t think your entitled ultimatums serve any useful purpose.
                                          c'mon man stop bullying me. The performance boost is a benefit for everyone. The more constructive feedback we give to any company the better it is for the customers . I am currently enjoying the DC-6 after enabling this new setting.
                                          Doshi Kevin
                                          Computer Science graduate

                                          Comment


                                            #25
                                            Tried that and on my potato PC (core i7 3770, 1060, 16gb) I had a massive boost. From 20 ish fps to 40 in 1080p high settings (dx11). This option can be problematic with other planes though (GPS and autopilot issues). So I only activate it for the dc6.

                                            Emmanuel Delmoly
                                            Last edited by Tatopanix; 25Nov2021, 18:33.
                                            Emmanuel Delmoly

                                            Comment


                                              #26
                                              It is with great news that I report "Developer Channel" or Use NanoVG for XML Gauges is working perfectly. Same drivers I went from 20 FPS to a ROCK SOLID 60 in ALL multiplayer on my non local region. The performance of this airplane is BACK BABY! After months of waiting the cockpit is now off the CPU and purring like a kitty again on my GPU. I even streamed the test and only hit a CPU bottleneck on ground roll and that was because I was streaming. No whirling dervish or any problems with the entire flight.

                                              I used GPS and ILS flawlessly in the snow. For people who are testing this plane make sure you have no mods installed. You absolutely MUST have a clean test bed. My GPU never went over 3.5GB and had no spikes in usage levels or dropped frames nothing. It was actually BETTER than Su4. So rest easy fellas she's back in shape =) Hopefully next patch it will be enabled by default. I have however started showing people how to enable it.

                                              I also want to say thank you for sharing this with us so we can test for ourselves. It's just sooo much more enjoyable with that extra performance we have been missing since su5. Some people who bought the DC6 later had no idea what they were missing. Now they will just absolutely love this plane even more. I will most certainly be buying 737 on release =) Hope everyone has a good weekend.
                                              Last edited by KWAiRT; 27Nov2021, 22:16.
                                              Kurt Meyer - Tech \ Tester \ Modder \ Voice Actor - BC Canada
                                              i7 8086K \ Asus Maximus X\ Corsair H115i - iQUE CMDR \ 32GB Corsair RGB 3600 CAS16 \ 1TBx2 970 M.2 \ EVGA 1080ti FTW 11GB - Nvidia 466.27 \ ASUS GSYNC 240Hz @1080p \ XBOX OEM Wired Controller - Mouse and Keyboard \ MS Store Microsoft Flight Sim - 1000 + Hours FT \ Navblue + Navigraph + OnAir \ Windows 10 Pro 2004 Build 19041.1237

                                              Comment


                                                #27
                                                Originally posted by cmakris View Post

                                                You need to go to Options -> General Options -> Developers and set the Developer Mode to ON and save,

                                                Then when you load the plane from the developer menu select Options use NanoVg for XML gauges.

                                                Please note again that this is experimental so crashes or not correct flying experience might occur
                                                Hi,

                                                Did the above and indeed it significantly increased my FPS...but it affected my ground textures at airports. All paved areas (tarmac areas) are now grass and dirt (except the runways and taxiways). Tried it with both default airports and payware airports. Any ideas of what I can do to correct?

                                                Thanks,
                                                Garry

                                                Comment


                                                  #28
                                                  Originally posted by flytriman View Post

                                                  Hi,

                                                  Did the above and indeed it significantly increased my FPS...but it affected my ground textures at airports. All paved areas (tarmac areas) are now grass and dirt (except the runways and taxiways). Tried it with both default airports and payware airports. Any ideas of what I can do to correct?

                                                  Thanks,
                                                  Garry
                                                  As I have written this is experimental option, and issues might happen as this is mainly for developers. Maybe what you see is the reason that is still not available from Asobo.
                                                  Chris Makris (Olympic260)
                                                  PMDG Technical Support
                                                  http://www.pmdg.com

                                                  Comment


                                                    #29
                                                    Personally I think "Use NanoVG for XML Gauges" was disabled after Su5 in order to help find what was causing all the crashing. As someone who flew the DC6 on PC from day 1 for months I can safely say there was no issues with this feature. This feature also wasn't experimental back then. It has only been moved to experimental now because it was disabled and left alone for so many months and has probably not been properly tested with the AMD APU. So in order to eliminate any other potential compatibility issues with XBOX it's now "experimental."

                                                    For myself on my 1080ti this was like giving me my SIM back from Su5. Not only did the sim work flawlessly but the performance was better than ever. I do expect that performance from the DC6 now. If I had not bought the DC6 at launch and flew it so much I would have never even noticed and just assumed this plane has terrible performance and would have been extremely disappointed. Without "Use NanoVG for XML gauges" this airplane is one of my worst performing planes in the sim and would NEVER justify the cost associated with it. So for me it is paramount that "Use NanoVG for XML Gauges" is restored and turned back on by default. I absolutely refuse to fly and or purchase planes that have serious performance issues. This is what sets joe from pro apart in the big league.

                                                    As for people reporting other weird issues with this feature I can almost assure you 99% are using mods. Why would using NanoVG effect a ground texture? It has absolutely nothing to do with that. Again if you are testing you should be testing a completely STOCK install with no planes no mods no nothing. Even using a custom livery made incorrectly can cause issue. I get that people might want to use a GPS mod and or custom scenery/livery etc etc and all that fancy dancy stuff but when it comes to testing you just can't do it. You need the most absolute minimum which again is why this feature was disabled in the first place. For all we know this feature may have sat dormant since su5 for no other reason than compatibility testing.

                                                    We are also still in a pandemic with global shortages on pretty much everything now not just silicon and GPUs. The cost to upgrade now is over 300% higher then when I built this rig and that is assuming you can even get the parts. Performance is more critical than ever now and to me is a feature we cannot afford to ignore. The sim is not exactly running well after Su7 either. It has a few performance issues that have popped up. We really need this feature enabled again by default. Performance should be a feature in todays day and age and we have patiently waited since su5. Please make sure you do not have mods installed when testing this stuff. Sometimes just removing the mods isn't enough either. Boot the sim vanilla and then exit. Make sure no state files or asset files are lingering from other planes or mods. Some mods may even require a fresh install of the sim. This is also why it's easier to just keep the test bed clean.
                                                    Last edited by KWAiRT; Yesterday, 13:12.
                                                    Kurt Meyer - Tech \ Tester \ Modder \ Voice Actor - BC Canada
                                                    i7 8086K \ Asus Maximus X\ Corsair H115i - iQUE CMDR \ 32GB Corsair RGB 3600 CAS16 \ 1TBx2 970 M.2 \ EVGA 1080ti FTW 11GB - Nvidia 466.27 \ ASUS GSYNC 240Hz @1080p \ XBOX OEM Wired Controller - Mouse and Keyboard \ MS Store Microsoft Flight Sim - 1000 + Hours FT \ Navblue + Navigraph + OnAir \ Windows 10 Pro 2004 Build 19041.1237

                                                    Comment


                                                      #30
                                                      Kurt,

                                                      while I totally sympathize with most of your points like badly performing addons I‘ll kindly disagree with your point of a vanilla testing environment. Yes, it‘s required to fix bugs that come with the addon itself and yes, you can‘t insist in a working platform if you have any mods. But once the basic functionality of the new addon has ben ensured it‘s also important to look a bit further and open the mind. There are addons (mods nowadays) around, that are simply common and must be expected. In P3D it‘s for example Active Sky, Chaseplane, GSX. In MSFS it‘s for example the PMS GNS mods, the WT Garmin G1000 and G3000 mods, etc. Those mods have already reached a standard must have status and as another addon developer who brings aircraft (or sceneries) to the sim one can‘t expect and ask customers to remove these mods for correct operation. Milviz for example initially released their Porter with the statement that you cannot have a G1000 mod installed or your addon won‘t work (at that point). This was a no-go and the community reacted respectively. When you implement features to your addon like the GNS430 in the DC6 and there is a that famous and common mod like the PMS50 you NEED to make sure it works vanilla and with this mod. You can‘t ask people to remove it. Legally you certainly can, put a disclaimer on the purchase page etc, but you can‘t morally as a part of this community. You can also endlessly put the blame on other developers but below the line customers will remember your addon as „incompatible“, not the GPS, GSX, wx addon etc.

                                                      PMDG, as well as other big names, have handled this well in the past with PMDG a little more reluctant to explicitly implement for example GSX but they have always made sure that it won‘t disturb each other.

                                                      I hope this trend will go on to make sure that we all can get the most out of the sim(s) we use. The participation of the community in MSFS is huge and other projects like the GPS mods will come, an example will be AIG. There Asobo will have to make sure their AI stuff works, otherwise it will be their fault if they break AIG. It‘s not a question of who came first but a matter of basic relevance and objective as well as subjective level of improvement to the sim.

                                                      Regarding this very feature this thread is about there can‘t any compatibility be expected, it‘s a big unknown variable that only became a focus since Chris has shared it. There is a topic in the MSFS forum now, people haven‘t been aware before. So if it breaks the GPS or other addons there is nothing unexpected about it. Once this feature get officially released addon developers will adapt their addons.
                                                      i7-6700k, GTX 1080TI, 32GB DDR4 RAM @2666MHz, 4k
                                                      Marc Ehnle

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