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Autothrottle on landing

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    Autothrottle on landing


    guys, good morning, do you use the autothrottle during landing, just like the real one? or manual? because once I tried to use it and at the time of touch the aircraft did not activate the reverses, then I saw on a forum that the autothrottle was buggy on landing
    Leandro Manducci

    #2
    Originally posted by Manducci View Post
    guys, good morning, do you use the autothrottle during landing, just like the real one? or manual? because once I tried to use it and at the time of touch the aircraft did not activate the reverses, then I saw on a forum that the autothrottle was buggy on landing
    The Boeing FCTM does recommend the use of A/T during landing regardless of if coupled to A/P; however, the reverse thrust is never automated. There are too many operational considerations to it's use to afford that luxury.

    I'm sure you can find a problem of any kind on a "forum," I am not aware of an issue with the 777 autothrottle on landing other than it is a sluggish but it does what it is supposed to do.
    Dan Downs KCRP
    i7-10700K 32GB 3600MHz 1080Ti

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by DDowns View Post

      The Boeing FCTM does recommend the use of A/T during landing regardless of if coupled to A/P; however, the reverse thrust is never automated. There are too many operational considerations to it's use to afford that luxury.

      I'm sure you can find a problem of any kind on a "forum," I am not aware of an issue with the 777 autothrottle on landing other than it is a sluggish but it does what it is supposed to do.
      thank you very much! I will test here!
      Leandro Manducci

      Comment


        #4
        As per my company policy we use always Autothrottle, we are actually not allowed to disconnect Autothrottle for any reason other than due to a failure of the system, or due to a checklist requirement.
        Cristian Caicedo A.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by ccapilot View Post
          As per my company policy we use always Autothrottle, we are actually not allowed to disconnect Autothrottle for any reason other than due to a failure of the system, or due to a checklist requirement.
          Wow, and I thought my company has a restrictive automation policy..

          We are actually encouraged to disconnect A/THR whenever we disconnect A/P. However, we are only allowed to disconnect A/P when on intercept heading, vectoring and below 5000ft AFE.
          Due to this policy I only did 1 landing with A/THR on in 1,5 years fyling the Triple.

          In P3D I handle it the same way, I always fly manually (except during CAT II/III, of course)
          Sven Mayer

          Comment


            #6
            That is restrictive. I wonder how much of it is down to fuel economy?

            Company policy seems to vary widely and the thought of what folks need to do instinctively in the event of cascade systems failure seems all to often to take a back seat. Basic skills with primary flight controls.....

            Many of my ex colleagues work for an airline with a large 777-300ER, 747-400F and 747-8F fleet. They are mostly ex military. They encourage hand flying with automation off below FL100, including flight director off in appropriate conditions

            Adrian Howe

            Adrian Howe

            Comment


              #7
              Genuinely curious question: What kind of conditions would be considered appropriate to hand fly with the flight director off?

              I'm not trying to denigrate the airline in question. I just can't see why one would want to turn off a device intended to make accurate flying easier.
              Tim Lincoln
              My YouTube Channel

              Comment


                #8
                Visual approach is an example.
                Fernando Porto

                Comment


                  #9
                  One thing about flying the -323C everything was hand flown except in cruise flight. A lot of times in cruise flight, the autopilot would be turned off if there was any turbulence. Since I didn't grow up with magenta lines I've always been confused when folks complained about the autothrottle, autopilot and flight director. Just turn'm off and life is much simpler.
                  Bode Bridges
                  I Earned my Spurs in Vietnam

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Yes, visual swing overs happen quite a lot, so you turn everything off and fly visually.

                    Also, being able to fly without flight director improves your understanding of the flight director itself and allows you to judge if the flight director is correct and/or if the flight path directed makes sense. In some departure routes it makes sense to fly against the flight director commands. Same applies to some cases on the ILS, where it makes sense to just look at the raw data and fly accordingly.
                    So being able to fly the same departure or approach without flight director, enhances your overall situational awarness in some cases.

                    There is a pretty interesting YouTube Video with the title "Children of the Magenta Line" which explains very good what the problem is in such a restrictive automation environment.
                    Sven Mayer

                    Comment


                      #11
                      There's an Airclips video on YouTube where a Lufthansa Cargo 777 First Officer making an approach into Narita did it with the flight director turned off.
                      Captain Kevin

                      Kevin Yang

                      Comment


                        #12
                        We are also encouraged to hand fly below RVSM airspace, but there's caveats to everything. Hong Kong for example has noise sensitive areas so we are required to turn AP on and fly the RNAV exactly, with a NADP1 climbout. Landing the 27's we should have AP on for that due to the mountains.
                        Turn off FD? That's never been discussed. General rule is to use use the tools available to you.
                        William Holland

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Want2BFlyin View Post
                          Genuinely curious question: What kind of conditions would be considered appropriate to hand fly with the flight director off?

                          I'm not trying to denigrate the airline in question. I just can't see why one would want to turn off a device intended to make accurate flying easier.
                          VMC

                          Not trying to be obtuse, accurate flying can be done without a flight director. It's like flying SEP and then getting lost when the GPS fails
                          Adrian Howe

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I never said that accurate flying cannot be done without a flight director. I simply stated that the flight director can make accurate flying easier, though I can see that there may be situations where the additional information provided by the flight director may not be desired. I think your analogy would be better if you said that the GPS was turned off instead of that it failed (something that my flight instructor did to me on one of my first cross country flights with him after he finished explaining how to properly program and use the GPS).
                            Tim Lincoln
                            My YouTube Channel

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Want2BFlyin View Post
                              I never said that accurate flying cannot be done without a flight director. I simply stated that the flight director can make accurate flying easier, though I can see that there may be situations where the additional information provided by the flight director may not be desired. I think your analogy would be better if you said that the GPS was turned off instead of that it failed (something that my flight instructor did to me on one of my first cross country flights with him after he finished explaining how to properly program and use the GPS).
                              The flight director has no "soul". It has no way of knowing what I want the aircraft to do. If I can't get the aircraft to do what I want and need it to do without the automation, then I have no business being in an airplane other than as a paying customer.
                              Bode Bridges
                              I Earned my Spurs in Vietnam

                              Comment


                                #16

                                Originally posted by Bluestar View Post

                                The flight director has no "soul". It has no way of knowing what I want the aircraft to do. If I can't get the aircraft to do what I want and need it to do without the automation, then I have no business being in an airplane other than as a paying customer. ‚Äč
                                You sure about that?
                                Lets see visibility is 85m so tell me again about your getting your aircraft back on the ground again without that soulless heartless piece of incredible technology???
                                Thats right your not your diverting elsewhere while those who do believe in the benefits of automation will be in bed before you started your descent into your alternate.
                                Seriously these discussions always end up reverting back to the legend of "children of the magenta".
                                Based on hours flown per accident we are getting 1/6th the number of accident as when that video was produced.
                                The airline industry has moved on a long way since 1997.
                                Thankfully overly restrictive company policies are minimal and crews are given a lot of freedom to maintain hand flying skills today.
                                The continual regurgitation of a 23 year old video while refreshing in showing what used to go on i am very glad to say from my experience it doesnt go on any more.
                                Automation is a "tool" not to be derided by ridiculous comments like "life is so much easier with it turned off" Well that may of applied with a 3 crew flight deck way back when steam powered dials and engineers where around but is doesnt apply today.
                                Try hand flying a serious emergency like smoke in the cabin of flightdeck while trying to
                                1)Manage the flight path
                                2)Communicate with your FO running an extensive complex non normal maybe while wearing a full face mask.
                                3)Talk to the cabin continually to judge the seriousness of the situation.
                                4)Talk to ATC to arrange your approach.
                                5)Set the box up and cover what you need to for an immediate landing
                                6)Juggle a chainsaw while simultaneously swapping hands with one holding a bowling ball..you get the picture.

                                A great autopilot is an angel sent from above to help us and should be used as needed to the degree needed at the time needed.
                                Under use is as big if not bigger problem than overuse the biggest issue is failing to "understand" its use..




                                Darren Howie

                                Comment


                                • DDowns
                                  DDowns commented
                                  Editing a comment
                                  You mixed the use of flight director with auto pilot... and you under estimate the experience Bode actually has, which is far more than most rated that visit here. The point he makes is that pilot in command needs to have the skill and knowledge to fly the airplane without automation. The point you make is that automation has made flying safer for everyone. Both are true at the same time.

                                #17
                                I always keep mine on except in emergencies.
                                Craig Norman

                                Comment


                                  #18
                                  Originally posted by Want2BFlyin View Post
                                  I never said that accurate flying cannot be done without a flight director. I simply stated that the flight director can make accurate flying easier, though I can see that there may be situations where the additional information provided by the flight director may not be desired. I think your analogy would be better if you said that the GPS was turned off instead of that it failed (something that my flight instructor did to me on one of my first cross country flights with him after he finished explaining how to properly program and use the GPS).
                                  The problem comes when you leave the FD engaged but don't follow the commands. It can lead to the A/T getting commands in conflict with the actual flight path. I also find the FD bars can be distracting in such circumstances.
                                  Last edited by Kevin Hall; 17Sep2020, 13:26.

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