Announcement

Collapse

PMDG Forum Rules

1) SIGN YOUR POSTS. Since 1997, we have asked users to sign their real name, first and last, to all posts in the PMDG forum. We do this in order to keep conversations personal and familiar. You took the time to be here, we want to get to know you. This is one of the few rigid rules that we enforce regularly. We do so because we feel that forums in which users must engage one another personally are generally warmer, more collegial and friendly. Posts that are unsigned will be quietly removed without comment by the moderators, so to make your life easy- we recommend enabling your forum signature so that you never need to remember. Do this by clicking the username pull-down at the top right, then selecting "User Settings." You will find the signature editor on the ACCOUNT tab, about half way down the page. Look for "Edit Post Signature." Be sure to click the "Show Signatures" box.

2) BE NICE. We are all simmers here and no matter our differences of opinion, we share a common love of aviation, computing and simulation. Treat everyone else in the forum with respect even when you disagree. If someone frustrates you, walk away from the conversation or ask for a moderator to get involved. Speaking of Moderators, they prefer not to be treated as "The Thought Police" but if any behavior infringes on the enjoyment of another user or is otherwise considered to be unacceptable in the moderator's judgment, it will be addressed in keeping with our view of ensuring that this forum remains a healthy environment for all simmers.

3) BE LAWFUL: Any behavior that infringes upon the law, such as discussion or solicitation of piracy, threats, intimidation or abuse will be handled unsympathetically by the moderators. Threats and intimidation may, at the moderator's discretion, be provided to law enforcement for handling.

4) BE FACTUAL: When you post, always be factual. Moderators will remove posts that are determined not to be factually accurate.

5) RESPECT COPYRIGHTS: Posting of copyrighted material such as flight manuals owned by Boeing or various airlines is not allowed in this forum. If you have questions related to copyrighted material, please contact a forum moderator for clarification.

6) RESPECT PMDG: We love to hear what you like about our products. We also like to hear what you think can be improved, or what isn't working. Please do tell us and we will always treat your feedback with value. Just be sure to treat the team respectfully, as they do put a significant amount of effort into building and maintaining these great simulation products for you.

7) RESPECT PMDG DEVELOPERS: All of the developers will spend some time here. Given the ratio of developers-to-users, it simply isn't possible for us to answer every post and private message individually. Please know that we do try to read everything, but developer workload is simply too high to manage personal contact with tens-of-thousands of users simultaneously. In most cases, members of the development team will stick to conversations in the forum and will not answer private messages.

8) RESPECT OTHER DEVELOPERS: PMDG has always advocated for a strong development community and we have many friends within this community. Every developer offers something unique that helps to make the simming community larger and more vibrant. We insist that you treat our friends respectfully.

9) RESPECT MODERATORS: Moderators have a tough job, and none of them enjoy having to stomp out negativity. If a moderator has to weigh in to keep a thread peaceful, please respect that effort and refrain from giving the moderator any grief.

10) If you require official support for any of our products please open a support ticket through the support portal, https://support.precisionmanuals.com

11) This forum is designed primarily as a vehicle for the PMDG development team to interact with our customers, and for customers to interact with one another in a manner that is positive, supportive and assists in the general advancement of understanding the simulation and helping to make this and future simulations better. Any other use of this forum is not permitted, including but not limited to discussion of pricing policies, business practices, forum moderating policies, advertising of non-PMDG products, promotion of events, services or products that are not approved in advance by PMDG or any other topic deemed unacceptable by any forum administrator

12) HAVE FUN: This is the whole point of it all.
See more
See less

NADP2 3000ft reading

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    NADP2 3000ft reading

    Hi,

    I’m wondering where or how I should read the 3000 ft AGL when performing the NADP2 procedure.

    I have set reduction at 1500 and accel to 3000ft so at 1000 I set bug up speed and retract flaps while climbing, then at 1500 comes N1 reduction and there is where I wait 3000ft +Airport altitude (I check that before TO).
    Another way is to look the CLB page on the FMC and there the speed will come magenta when reaching 3000ft AGL.

    So in order not to select VNAV too soon (it will select Vref+20 when I’m already ahead) I always select it
    a couple hundred feet more than 3000 AGL. (Or even more because things go fast at that point).

    I think maybe I’m missing something here.
    Is there somewhere else I can look out to read the 3000ft AGL?

    Should I set accel ht to 1500 so I’m not so afraid of selecting VNAV at 3000?

    Thanks!
    Joan Alonso


    #2
    Maintain up speed until 3000AAL and engage vnav when "flaps up no light". If flaps will retract sooner than 3000 AAL then simply use speed intervention.
    As far as I know in ryr they use 1500' as reduction altitude in both departures.

    In takeoff page 2/2 you can set own ACCeleration altitude so when flying NADP2 simple insert 1000' there. In NADP1 it should be 3000'.
    Last edited by Dzosef; 18Nov2020, 09:19.
    Matthew Chalupniczak

    Comment


      #3
      Thanks Matthew, I didn’t know I could set acceleration height lower than the reduction altitude.

      I try to follow RYR ops, AFAIK they set CMD and bug up at 1000 and reduction at 1500 isn’t it? Then VNAVat 3000. So if I set accel ht to 1000 and I set VNAV sooner than 3000 AGL it will compute 250/10000 or whatever speed restriction.
      I’ll give it a try!
      But regarding VNAV, where do you read the 3000ft AGL to engage it?

      Thanks!
      Joan Alonso

      Comment


        #4
        Ok, now I see that you engage VNAV at flaps up no lights.
        Joan Alonso

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Joan Alonso View Post
          But regarding VNAV, where do you read the 3000ft AGL to engage it?

          Thanks!
          As you wrote, airport alt+3000
          Matthew Chalupniczak

          Comment


            #6
            There is only indcation on AFE+500 and +1000, so for +1500 and +3000, you need to know how it's show on altimeter. especially when your airport is at like 1235feet or so.
            And that's what take-off briefing is for, don't try to do math when the aircraft is moving.

            An old saying is: there is an IQ switch on landing gear, when it leaves ground, the IQ of pilots will drop by half
            ZHU Hai
            B737 Ground instructor

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Joan Alonso View Post
              Hi,

              I’m wondering where or how I should read the 3000 ft AGL when performing the NADP2 procedure.

              I have set reduction at 1500 and accel to 3000ft so at 1000 I set bug up speed and retract flaps while climbing, then at 1500 comes N1 reduction and there is where I wait 3000ft +Airport altitude (I check that before TO).
              Another way is to look the CLB page on the FMC and there the speed will come magenta when reaching 3000ft AGL.

              So in order not to select VNAV too soon (it will select Vref+20 when I’m already ahead) I always select it
              a couple hundred feet more than 3000 AGL. (Or even more because things go fast at that point).

              I think maybe I’m missing something here.
              Is there somewhere else I can look out to read the 3000ft AGL?

              Should I set accel ht to 1500 so I’m not so afraid of selecting VNAV at 3000?

              Thanks!
              It's not 3000AGL, it's 3000AAL.
              In my airline we fly an NADP1 by setting climb thrust at 1500AAL, then bug up at 3000AAL. Once you see flaps up no lights engage VNAV.
              You can not directly read 3000AAL, you have to remember your departure field elevation and add that to the altimeter reading. That's the only reliable source to determine when you are 3000ft Above Aerodrome Level.

              Comment


                #8
                Got it! Thanks ZHU & Emi.

                Joan Alonso

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Emi View Post

                  It's not 3000AGL, it's 3000AAL.
                  In my airline we fly an NADP1 by setting climb thrust at 1500AAL, then bug up at 3000AAL. Once you see flaps up no lights engage VNAV.
                  You can not directly read 3000AAL, you have to remember your departure field elevation and add that to the altimeter reading. That's the only reliable source to determine when you are 3000ft Above Aerodrome Level.
                  Would you use the minimums dial to put a bug at acceleration height (3000 is in this case) or is that used only for engine out acceleration height?

                  If the respective reduction and acceleration heights are put into the FMC, wouldn't VNAV automatically take that into account? I'm asking in case there is a specific reason not to use VNAV on NADPs, or is this just your airline's particular SOP?

                  Also, where can I see if an airport requires NADPs? I use Navigraph Charts through the EFB but it's not on any charts as far as I can see, not even on the airport briefing.
                  Last edited by threegreen; 18Nov2020, 16:00.
                  Niklas Graefe

                  Comment


                  • Dzosef
                    Dzosef commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Minimums bug in the airline that Emi flies for a I belive are used to mark MFRA (minimum flap retraction altitude in case of EO)


                    Vnav departure is relatively new function in 737 and was introduced few years ago. Not all airlines accommodated the changes. So SOP specific.


                    In Europe you fly NADP2 unless specified otherwise. (Check airport operational information charts, section departure or noise abatment procedures)

                  #10
                  NADP requirements are not if never indicated on charts but on the airport briefings. However, Navigraph doesn't always provide the whole information like a real AIS would.
                  I normally use it only when the real AIS websites cannot be accessed.
                  You may have a look here, it gives links to all the official AIS websites. Some maybe freely accessed, some may be accessed through registering free of charge...
                  https://www.eurocontrol.int/articles/ais-online
                  Romain Roux

                  Comment


                    #11
                    I go to Blackbox's website for NADP info: https://blackbox.oneengineout.com/airportdata/
                    Alex Pugh

                    Comment


                    • Joan Alonso
                      Joan Alonso commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Wow, great source of data available there. Bookmarked, thanks!
                  Working...
                  X