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BBJ/BBJ2 Auto Step-Climb

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    BBJ/BBJ2 Auto Step-Climb

    Now that the BBJ/BBJ2 is on the horizon, I was wondering if y'all have already implemented, or would consider implementing an auto step-climb option for those long duration flights in the BBJ.
    Sterling Paulsen

    #2
    Originally posted by spauls121 View Post
    Now that the BBJ/BBJ2 is on the horizon, I was wondering if y'all have already implemented, or would consider implementing an auto step-climb option for those long duration flights in the BBJ.
    I don't get why it would be any different than the revenue one. One is just ingeriorly designed differently i thought
    Alex Kulak
    PMDG Studier and flyer

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Swaluver88 View Post
      I don't get why it would be any different than the revenue one. One is just ingeriorly designed differently i thought
      Looking at the introduction manual, it appears as though for the NGXu as it is now, auto step climb is non-existent, so I get where he's coming from. I guess their line of thinking is, if you're flying a short flight, you wouldn't have a chance to step climb anyway, and even if you flew a long flight where you could, you would only really be able to do it once.
      Captain Kevin

      Kevin Yang

      Comment


        #4
        Is the current release of the -700 the ER model? The range is still impressive with a light payload I've noticed. Not quite enough for some of the long haul routes a BBJ is capable of, but certainly close.
        -Spencer Hoefer

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by [email protected] View Post
          Is the current release of the -700 the ER model? The range is still impressive with a light payload I've noticed. Not quite enough for some of the long haul routes a BBJ is capable of, but certainly close.
          I've flown a 736 around the world with the longest leg being 5 hr.

          The need for step climbs in the B737 is much different from a heavy, where fuel loads are easily 2/3 more than the payload on long routes. Even on some oceanic tracks such as NATS or West Coast / Hawaii are fixed altitude segments from entry to exit. There just isn't a lot of reasons to add the complexity of auto step climb to this product.
          Dan Downs KCRP
          i7-10700K 32GB 3600MHz 2080Ti

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by spauls121 View Post
            Now that the BBJ/BBJ2 is on the horizon, I was wondering if y'all have already implemented, or would consider implementing an auto step-climb option for those long duration flights in the BBJ.
            I absolutely agree, with the ultra long haul capability of the BBJ, Autostepclimb would be a great thing to have. I'll forward it to the development team.

            Comment


              #7
              Does the real BBJ have auto step climb?
              Mateus Sutherland

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by matsout View Post
                Does the real BBJ have auto step climb?
                Negative, they have actual pilots who would handle the step climb. The whole idea of the auto step climb as designed in the PMDG 747 and 777 was more so for the fact that if you started a long-haul flight, but left the flight unattended, the plane would then handle the step climb on its own. This wouldn't be necessary on the actual plane since it is expected that the pilots are in the flight deck monitoring the plane. Also, PMDG requires you to sign your posts with your first and last name, which you agreed to when you created an account here. Instructions on how to do so can be found here:

                https://forum.pmdg.com/forum/main-fo...pdated-25feb19
                Captain Kevin

                Kevin Yang

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by matsout View Post
                  Does the real BBJ have auto step climb?
                  No real aircraft has auto step climb. But real aircraft also have pilots sitting there managing the flight for 100% of the flight time.

                  Comment


                  • DDowns
                    DDowns commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Nobody mentioned that the pilots cannot climb without ATC clearance.

                  #10
                  I can't understand this. Either you're flying whole leg so you are staying all lets say 5hours in front of your computer or you skipping cruise. What is the point of running computer for 5hours without touching it? Save money on electricity, and "teleport" to t/d...
                  Matthew Chalupniczak

                  Comment


                    #11
                    Originally posted by Dzosef View Post
                    I can't understand this. Either you're flying whole leg so you are staying all lets say 5hours in front of your computer or you skipping cruise. What is the point of running computer for 5hours without touching it? Save money on electricity, and "teleport" to t/d...
                    There's no teleport option with the PMDG planes as far as I'm aware.
                    Captain Kevin

                    Kevin Yang

                    Comment


                    • Dzosef
                      Dzosef commented
                      Editing a comment
                      You got me...

                    • Mickel
                      Mickel commented
                      Editing a comment
                      There's the in-built accelerated time option - as close as we have. Useful for oceanic legs. My FO isn't interesting enough conversation for those. Others may have better luck on that front.

                    #12
                    Originally posted by Emi View Post

                    No real aircraft has auto step climb. But real aircraft also have pilots sitting there managing the flight for 100% of the flight time.
                    *Cough*MD-11*cough*
                    William Genovese

                    Comment


                      #13
                      There are a problem as 737's FMC only handle one manually inputed step level, rather than an interval as 747. While I think it still could be handle by set that in AutoStepclimb page?
                      ZHU Hai
                      B737 Ground instructor

                      Comment


                        #14
                        Originally posted by Simflyer86 View Post

                        *Cough*MD-11*cough*
                        Doesn't have Auto Step Climb in the sense of PMDG either.
                        If you don't set the MCP altitude higher in the MD-11 it won't start a step climb.

                        Comment


                          #15
                          Originally posted by AngelofAttack View Post
                          There are a problem as 737's FMC only handle one manually inputed step level, rather than an interval as 747. While I think it still could be handle by set that in AutoStepclimb page?
                          I'm not sure I understand what you mean here. You can only input one altitude at a time in all the planes I have seen. Unless you're thinking of the winds aloft page, where you can put in multiple altitudes, but that has nothing to do with the auto step climb. The auto step climb takes your current cruise altitude and the step size you set and does the step climbs accordingly.
                          Captain Kevin

                          Kevin Yang

                          Comment


                            #16
                            yes but the 747 and 777 will keep doing it, if you set an 2000 ft interval it will do multiple steps if necessary

                            i think hes saying the 737 would only step once since there is nowhere to put an interval
                            Mike Teague - p3dv5 - B736 B737 B738 B739 B744 B748

                            Comment


                              #17
                              I know it's a different subject, but the same goes for RTE2 option. Emi Any chance you can pass that on to the dev team as well?
                              Youp Oosterwegel
                              EHAM

                              Comment


                                #18
                                Originally posted by youp5714 View Post
                                I know it's a different subject, but the same goes for RTE2 option. Emi Any chance you can pass that on to the dev team as well?
                                RTE2 is in the todo. Not sure when will be available.
                                Chris Makris (Olympic260)
                                PMDG Technical Support
                                http://www.pmdg.com

                                Comment


                                • youp5714
                                  youp5714 commented
                                  Editing a comment
                                  Awesome, thanks!

                                #19
                                Originally posted by kvuo75 View Post
                                yes but the 747 and 777 will keep doing it, if you set an 2000 ft interval it will do multiple steps if necessary

                                i think hes saying the 737 would only step once since there is nowhere to put an interval
                                I just checked from a previous stream that I did, and you're right. I hadn't taken that into consideration. I wonder how they would handle it then if it was implemented since apparently the actual FMC doesn't allow you to put an interval in there.
                                Captain Kevin

                                Kevin Yang

                                Comment


                                  #20
                                  Originally posted by Captain Kevin View Post
                                  I just checked from a previous stream that I did, and you're right. I hadn't taken that into consideration. I wonder how they would handle it then if it was implemented since apparently the actual FMC doesn't allow you to put an interval in there.
                                  That would be an easy implementation into the AutoStepClimb page for automatic selection of the step altitude.
                                  What's more interesting is the philosophy when to climb.
                                  In the large Boeings it's not much of an issue, you climb when the OPT altitude reaches the next higher thousand.
                                  Not so in the 737NG. Compared to other Boeings it has very, very little margin. My operator uses a fixed cruise CG of 5, which even limits the max altitude to around 700-800ft above the OPT and the OPT itself also goes down A LOT compared to an actual cruise CG.
                                  In fact we ONLY do a step climb when the OPT equals the new cruise level.
                                  If we had for example OPT 397, MAX 405 we'd normally choose a cruise level of 380 and stay there until the OPT actually reaches 400 before we would climb.

                                  When you climb up all the way to a couple hundret feet close of the MAX level your speed margin will be so little that even the slighest turbulence would bring you into either an overspeed or a low speed situation.

                                  Thus the question needs to be asked: When should you actually do your step climb with an Auto Step Climb?
                                  Simply porting the logic of the 777 or 747 into the 737 could result in some serious aerodynamic problems in a 737.

                                  Comment


                                    #21
                                    Originally posted by Swaluver88 View Post

                                    I don't get why it would be any different than the revenue one. One is just ingeriorly designed differently i thought
                                    No, there is more that can be different. BBJ’s can be fitted with auxilary fuel tanks in the lower cargo holds to increase the range.
                                    Next to all kind of extra’s like independant SATcom so the VIP pax does not need to use the company SATcom (so they cannot eavesdrop into the conversation).
                                    René Moelaert EHLE

                                    Comment


                                      #22
                                      Will auto step climb be added in the future? I did a 10hr 30min flight in the BBJ but didn’t see it in the options. I had to leave it at FL350, until I woke up lol
                                      Thanks, Matt -|- Win 10 Pro, [email protected], Corsair H115i, Asus Strix X299, 32Gb Corsair Vengence, MSI RTX 2080ti, Samsung C49RG90, CH Pedals, Honeycomb Yoke, T16000M Joystick, throttles, VRinsight MCP Combo, XP11, P3Dv5 Pro, MSFS2020 and way too many add-ons to mention! Owned almost every PMDG product since the days of Fly!

                                      Comment


                                        #23
                                        Originally posted by Matt Richards View Post
                                        Will auto step climb be added in the future? I did a 10hr 30min flight in the BBJ but didn’t see it in the options. I had to leave it at FL350, until I woke up lol
                                        It has been discussed but it is unlikely this will be added. There would need to be quite a bit of modification because the NG doesn't have the option to set a step value (such as RVSM or 2000) so code would have to be created to do that while observing OPT and MAX levels, then once that is done the winds for the new step would need to be uploaded because NG only uploads winds for one cruise altitude. Not as easy as it is for the big Boeings.
                                        Dan Downs KCRP
                                        i7-10700K 32GB 3600MHz 2080Ti

                                        Comment


                                          #24
                                          Adding to Dans comment, when you fly anywhere close to the maximum levels in the 737 you have a very, very small margin to the over- and underspeed. In fact you only have a very few couple knots. I'm not sure if you'd want to fly that close to the limits while not actively monitoring your flight (aka when autostepping up).

                                          Thus it would not just be possible to copy/paste 747 code into the 737 to model an autostepclimb, a lot more would have to go into it that makes it much more complex due to the aerodynamics of the 737 compared to the other PMDG product lines.

                                          Comment


                                            #25
                                            Thanks for the replies Dan & Emanuel. I still arrived with my planned landing fuel, so I’ll just plan a single level in future 👍🏼
                                            Thanks, Matt -|- Win 10 Pro, [email protected], Corsair H115i, Asus Strix X299, 32Gb Corsair Vengence, MSI RTX 2080ti, Samsung C49RG90, CH Pedals, Honeycomb Yoke, T16000M Joystick, throttles, VRinsight MCP Combo, XP11, P3Dv5 Pro, MSFS2020 and way too many add-ons to mention! Owned almost every PMDG product since the days of Fly!

                                            Comment


                                              #26
                                              Originally posted by Matt Richards View Post
                                              Thanks for the replies Dan & Emanuel. I still arrived with my planned landing fuel, so I’ll just plan a single level in future 👍🏼
                                              When I did overnights during the beta I usually climbed up to the cloest level to the MAX altitude. You're burning a tiny bit more fuel, but will still be fine. Contingency covers you.

                                              Comment


                                                #27
                                                Originally posted by Emi View Post

                                                When I did overnights during the beta I usually climbed up to the cloest level to the MAX altitude. You're burning a tiny bit more fuel, but will still be fine. Contingency covers you.
                                                I probably could’ve gone slightly higher, but it was the first ‘test’ flight, so I stayed on the side of caution. Nothing worse to wake up and find you’re bouncing around the Atlantic 😬
                                                Thanks, Matt -|- Win 10 Pro, [email protected], Corsair H115i, Asus Strix X299, 32Gb Corsair Vengence, MSI RTX 2080ti, Samsung C49RG90, CH Pedals, Honeycomb Yoke, T16000M Joystick, throttles, VRinsight MCP Combo, XP11, P3Dv5 Pro, MSFS2020 and way too many add-ons to mention! Owned almost every PMDG product since the days of Fly!

                                                Comment


                                                  #28
                                                  Another issue unique to the 737 is that the altitude on the pressurization panel would also have to be changed for each step.
                                                  Tom Landry

                                                  Comment


                                                  • DDowns
                                                    DDowns commented
                                                    Editing a comment
                                                    Dang... that's what I couldn't remember earlier. Thanks Tom.

                                                  • ahuimanu
                                                    ahuimanu commented
                                                    Editing a comment
                                                    The 737 is a Frankenstein of bolted on improvements over a 1960s vintage, hence weirdo stuff like manually setting cabin altitude and otherwise not relying on tighter systems/FMC integration. That said, since I am "overnighting" quite a bit in the BBJ, I'd like to be able to "auto step climb" as there are so many other affordances built into the PMDG NGXu that accommodate that we are simming on a desktop.
                                                    Last edited by ahuimanu; 11Nov2020, 19:00. Reason: fixes
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