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NGXu steering

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    NGXu steering

    The nose wheel steering seems to be waaaaay to sensitive on the NGXu's both the 8/9 and 6/7. Can this pleeeeeease be addressed? I even have all the sensitivity sliders to the left within P3D.
    Dan Giordano

    #2
    Originally posted by American398 View Post
    The nose wheel steering seems to be waaaaay to sensitive on the NGXu's both the 8/9 and 6/7. Can this pleeeeeease be addressed? I even have all the sensitivity sliders to the left within P3D.
    Please add your first and last name signature to your post as per forum rules.
    Danny Z.Cebis

    Comment


      #3
      Dan G, thats all you need to know.
      Last edited by American398; 07Feb2020, 00:17.
      Dan Giordano

      Comment


      • Ausflight
        Ausflight commented
        Editing a comment
        It’s not what i need to know,it’s what the pmdg forum rules State.

      #4
      Originally posted by American398 View Post
      The nose wheel steering seems to be waaaaay to sensitive on the NGXu's both the 8/9 and 6/7. Can this pleeeeeease be addressed? I even have all the sensitivity sliders to the left within P3D.
      I agree, especially when you start to taxi if you give rudder input will turn aggressively for 1 second or 2 and then dampens down. Not realistic. In FSUPIC I was able to adjust the sensitivity but no success at all in P3D controls menu. I did play around with all the settings, I changed the rudder pedals (I had a spare one) and tested, unfortunately, the same issue.
      Kind regards Alex Nicolov
      "You can't make a difference unless you upset at least one."
      [email protected] GHz, Nvidia RTX 2080 Ti, DDR4 3200 64GB

      Comment


        #5
        Originally posted by American398 View Post
        Dan Giordano
        PMDG FORUM RULES

        1) SIGN YOUR POSTS. Since 1997, we have asked users to sign their real name, first and last, to all posts in the PMDG forum. We do this in order to keep conversations personal and familiar. You took the time to be here, we want to get to know you. This is one of the few rigid rules that we enforce regularly. We do so because we feel that forums in which users must engage one another personally are generally warmer, more collegial and friendly. Posts that are unsigned will be quietly removed without comment by the moderators, so to make your life easy- we recommend enabling your forum signature so that you never need to remember. Do this by clicking the username pull-down at the top right, then selecting "User Settings." You will find the signature editor on the ACCOUNT tab, about half way down the page. Look for "Edit Post Signature." Be sure to click the "Show Signatures" box.

        STEFAN ĐORĐEVIĆ

        Comment


          #6
          I was going to make a sarcastic comment about PMDG never really beta testing their patches before release, but I now of course realize that we the customers always end up being the beta testers by default. We should all band together and demand medical and dental since our salaries are way below the national average! Better yet, unionize!

          -Aaron Cumberland
          Last edited by Aaron Cumberland; 07Feb2020, 01:07.

          Comment


            #7
            Originally posted by Stefan_888 View Post

            PMDG FORUM RULES

            1) SIGN YOUR POSTS. Since 1997, we have asked users to sign their real name, first and last, to all posts in the PMDG forum. We do this in order to keep conversations personal and familiar. You took the time to be here, we want to get to know you. This is one of the few rigid rules that we enforce regularly. We do so because we feel that forums in which users must engage one another personally are generally warmer, more collegial and friendly. Posts that are unsigned will be quietly removed without comment by the moderators, so to make your life easy- we recommend enabling your forum signature so that you never need to remember. Do this by clicking the username pull-down at the top right, then selecting "User Settings." You will find the signature editor on the ACCOUNT tab, about half way down the page. Look for "Edit Post Signature." Be sure to click the "Show Signatures" box.
            For the record, I DID NOT read this and immediately extend my middle finger toward your post. Doing so would be both childish and in poor taste, and I would have firstly had to remove the aforementioned digit from my nose. But, God help me, it took every last ounce of resolve I could conceivably muster to not do so.

            -Aaron Cumberland
            Last edited by Aaron Cumberland; 07Feb2020, 02:01.

            Comment


            • Michael Codd
              Michael Codd commented
              Editing a comment
              Just think, Aaron, with all of that red ink he must be a trainee accountant! LOL

            • Stefan_888
              Stefan_888 commented
              Editing a comment
              Michael,
              I'm an economist,so your guess is somewhat true, and I use a lot of red ink in my life hahaha.
              Let's be honest I reduced my red inking to my minimum

            #8
            Look, I know you wanted to make the ground steering more realistic. But lets face it, not many people have an actual tiller they can configure for this aircraft. Just go back to the way it was with the NGX. It worked perfectly. For example, Im taxing the aircraft after landing and im steering the aircraft off of a high speed taxiway at 25kts then it gets to 20kts and all of a sudden i put tiny inputs into the controls and its going all over the place. Just please fix it or tell us what we can do in the aircraft config to correct this. Please.
            Dan Giordano

            Comment


            • 12_wpa_12
              12_wpa_12 commented
              Editing a comment
              i basically raised this issue so many times and got sarcy / unhelpful responses back tbh, i agree, they've tried to implement something too realistic in a sim model that is way outdated and unrealistic... making this 'realistic steering' update redundant and buggy. if it aint broken, why fix it... i mean overall the aircraft looks great and the systems onboard are robust.. but.. yeah, needs work on the NWS

            #9
            I think the problem is the abrupt transition at 20kt ground speed. It would be nice if the transition can be softened, or we can have a keybind to toggle whether to use the tiller or pedals to steer.
            Santiago Vegega

            Comment


              #10
              Originally posted by American398 View Post
              Look, I know you wanted to make the ground steering more realistic. But lets face it, not many people have an actual tiller they can configure for this aircraft. Just go back to the way it was with the NGX.
              I don't know that it's as simple as just go back to the way it was.
              Captain Kevin

              Kevin Yang

              Comment


                #11
                I agree thus taxi issue is annoying there should be a default option for some users who don't own a tiller,after all its just a pc since.
                Best regards
                Brendon Powys
                Johannesburg

                Comment


                  #12
                  May I kindly suggest an admin to close this thread since the OP refuses to adhere to the forum rules?
                  Greetings,
                  Emanuel Hagen

                  Comment


                  • 12_wpa_12
                    12_wpa_12 commented
                    Editing a comment
                    to be honest isn't it infringing on someones right to remain anonymous for imposing a rule to post first and last name? some people may not simply wish to pop up on a google search via this forum, and considering this is pretty much the only avenue to raise issues / bugs, and there is nowhere for the posting of issues annonymously... it's pretty off, you can find out a lot about someone from a first and last name.

                    - Wayne Anstey.

                  #13
                  Originally posted by Emi View Post
                  May I kindly suggest an admin to close this thread since the OP refuses to adhere to the forum rules?
                  Emil, he was given a warning, if he continues not to follow the rules his posts will be removed without any further warning
                  Chris Makris (Olympic260)
                  PMDG Technical Support
                  http://www.pmdg.com

                  Comment


                    #14
                    Originally posted by Santi871 View Post
                    I think the problem is the abrupt transition at 20kt ground speed. It would be nice if the transition can be softened, or we can have a keybind to toggle whether to use the tiller or pedals to steer.
                    Boeing says to avoid usage of tiller above 20 knots or handle it with extreme care, so the transition you see at 20knots is actually the transition from rudder pedal steering (max 7 degree deflection) to nosewheel tiller steering deflection (max 78 degrees).
                    So if you have your rudder pedals halfway deflected (50%), the nosewheel will swivel from 7*0,5 = 3,5 to 78*0,5=39 degrees and hence the sudden angular speed change.
                    At least that is what I think is happening.

                    Once you know this, you can make the transition smooth for yourself. Brake with rudder centered through 20KIAS, and only then add more rudder again.
                    I don't know how they could simulate this any better than it is now. We need both the tiller steering for taxiing and the 7 degree limit with pedals only in order to keep everything under control during take-off/landing.
                    I like the fact that they have brought some realism into the taxiing behaviour. The 737 at MTOW is not a machine you can throw about at any speed you like and requests tiny and precise input in order to keep the rear cabin happy and the tires in one piece.
                    Kind regards,

                    Erik Brouwer

                    Comment


                      #15
                      Originally posted by Planeblogger View Post

                      Boeing says to avoid usage of tiller above 20 knots or handle it with extreme care, so the transition you see at 20knots is actually the transition from rudder pedal steering (max 7 degree deflection) to nosewheel tiller steering deflection (max 78 degrees).
                      So if you have your rudder pedals halfway deflected (50%), the nosewheel will swivel from 7*0,5 = 3,5 to 78*0,5=39 degrees and hence the sudden angular speed change.
                      At least that is what I think is happening.

                      Once you know this, you can make the transition smooth for yourself. Brake with rudder centered through 20KIAS, and only then add more rudder again.
                      I don't know how they could simulate this any better than it is now. We need both the tiller steering for taxiing and the 7 degree limit with pedals only in order to keep everything under control during take-off/landing.
                      I like the fact that they have brought some realism into the taxiing behaviour. The 737 at MTOW is not a machine you can throw about at any speed you like and requests tiny and precise input in order to keep the rear cabin happy and the tires in one piece.
                      See my suggestion about enabling the tiller via a keybind. That way users who don't have both a tiller and pedals can choose to use either in the sim at their will - much like they would if they did have both.
                      Santiago Vegega

                      Comment


                        #16
                        Sorry, but I must disagree with the op, the steering to me feels better and more manageable then previously was the case. Way less sensitive and and much more realistic to what sim realism will allow. I thought this was immediately noticable, but this is also very much hardware dependent. Just my 2 pennies.
                        Zsolt Szivak

                        Comment


                          #17
                          Originally posted by Santi871 View Post

                          See my suggestion about enabling the tiller via a keybind. That way users who don't have both a tiller and pedals can choose to use either in the sim at their will - much like they would if they did have both.
                          Even Black Box Simulations has this option. Fslabs has it too. A much better approach in my opinion..
                          Carlos Vieczorek

                          Comment


                            #18
                            the steering has definitely improved since the last update, my opinion overall is that putting realistic ground handling in an unrealistic sim model has caused quite a few issues though. i think going back to the issue though, perhaps it could be helpful to allow toggling of rudder and tiller steering though with an assignable key press. that, i think could help in terms of sensitivity issues at about 20kts. i mean great job on the sim overall though, it's a nice aircraft and the cockpit and lighting looks great and the systems overall function well.

                            Wayne Anstey

                            Comment


                              #19
                              Originally posted by Kapitanyur23 View Post
                              Sorry, but I must disagree with the op, the steering to me feels better and more manageable then previously was the case. Way less sensitive and and much more realistic to what sim realism will allow. I thought this was immediately noticable, but this is also very much hardware dependent. Just my 2 pennies.

                              Agreed. Is lovely now. I use a thrustmaster throttle turned sideways and works superbly.
                              Miles Codrington

                              Comment


                                #20
                                +1 for the toggle, the 20kt transition is a bit abrupt. if you're taxiing around 20kts its constantly switching

                                either a toggle, or user definable speed where it transitions
                                Mike Teague - p3dv4.5 - B736 B737 B738 B739 B77L B77W B744 B748

                                Comment


                                  #21
                                  Originally posted by etopsbr View Post
                                  Even Black Box Simulations has this option. Fslabs has it too. A much better approach in my opinion..
                                  Airbus’ NWS works quite differently from Boeing‘s so in the case of FSL it‘s pretty straight forward to do it with a key bind. The rudder Disc button is there anyway and you can use it to play with the logic. In the 737, if you want to inhibit the nose wheel from moving when you check the rudder you need to hold the tiller with the hand so it doesn‘t move. It will override the rudder. This is definitely not simulated here. It‘s by far not as easy to accomplish as it looks.

                                  Another idea of course would be another software axis to assign to for example the aileron axis, similar to the Majestic Q400 and disable it when the (software) throttles are set to more than say 60%. But that would have to be elaborated by PMDG, I have no clue if this is possible with how the NGXu is coded.

                                  I haven‘t used the NGXu since the latest update and can‘t say anything about the 20kts transition but if it‘s still the same as before it definitely needs some work.
                                  i7-6700k, GTX 1080TI, 32GB DDR4 RAM @1600MHz, 4k

                                  Comment


                                    #22

                                    I have PFC throttle quadrant, on that unit, there is a rudder trim switch that I assigned it as "axis steering set" as to be the nose steering tiller using raw input data for the feel.

                                    I think that below 20 KTS coding is to have sensitivity probably doubled or tripled (giving this total unrealistic behavior) and above 20 KTS the sensitivity goes to normal and it is possible to taxi normally.

                                    I'm not a 737 pilot, I fly 747 and we have the same system more or less, and yes there is a difference bellow/above 20 KTS using the tiller to steer but not as drastically as it is.

                                    Yes, the previous version did not have this issue related to the 20 KTS mark and it was almost perfect.

                                    I suggest having sensitivity for the rudder or tiller below 20 KTS to be set to maybe around 5% or 8% more sensitive than normal and above 20 KTS to be back to normal.
                                    Kind regards Alex Nicolov
                                    "You can't make a difference unless you upset at least one."
                                    [email protected] GHz, Nvidia RTX 2080 Ti, DDR4 3200 64GB

                                    Comment


                                      #23
                                      For PMDG tech team,

                                      I noticed some similarities on the nose wheel steering compared to the 747.

                                      I think that the problem is related to the difference between what the rudder and tiller do.

                                      From what I can see rudder and tiller have the same effect on moving the nose wheel, I see people mentioning about 20 KTS for the 737 but I can't find it in the manuals or the 7 degrees in either direction when steered with the rudder.

                                      I don't see any difference when using ONLY the rudder to steer and I don't see that reduced turning capability.

                                      On the 747 most of us use the rudder (smooth turning) during taxi and tiller when it's a tight turn, we do have the activation of the body gear steering below 15 KTS and if we use the tiller is overriding the rudder when steering angle exceeds 20 degrees.

                                      Under certain occasions, we taxi up to 30 KTS and don't use tiller at all.

                                      Anyhow, what I expect to see is when I use the only rudder on the 737 (if we want to have it real), to see a limited turn radius (for that 7 degrees) and a smooth turn, not what we have right now (very harsh results).

                                      It appears to me that there is no difference between rudder and tiller.

                                      Now if we override with the tiller should be a smooth transition up to 78 degrees or so.

                                      Having said that, despite the efforts put in this project "tiller" I find it unrealistic. Default mode we had before this it was much better.

                                      I do hope that this modification in early stages not to be applied to the 747.
                                      Kind regards Alex Nicolov
                                      "You can't make a difference unless you upset at least one."
                                      [email protected] GHz, Nvidia RTX 2080 Ti, DDR4 3200 64GB

                                      Comment

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