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PAX Capacity

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    PAX Capacity

    So, after the update, I have seen that now we can put 184 pax instead of 180 on the 738BW with the single class. I was thinking that why not change this to 189 as more airlines with a single class have this configuration. Just my opinion here.
    Juan Carlos Cabanelas

    #2
    Originally posted by PilotJuanCarlos View Post
    So, after the update, I have seen that now we can put 184 pax instead of 180 on the 738BW with the single class. I was thinking that why not change this to 189 as more airlines with a single class have this configuration. Just my opinion here.
    Which airlines would that be on the 737-8H4 I only know a couple and they go from 175-180
    Alex Kulak
    PMDG Studier and flyer
    Ramp Agent

    Comment


      #3
      Ryanair. Would make sense to allow the maximum certified capacity to be entered.

      Comment


        #4
        Boeing documentation on which the max seating is based gives 184 seats for single class.
        Chris Makris (Olympic260)
        PMDG Technical Support
        http://www.pmdg.com

        Comment


          #5
          Ryanir, Norwegian, Travelservice. Most of them are European low cost airlines
          Juan Carlos Cabanelas

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by PilotJuanCarlos View Post
            Ryanir, Norwegian, Travelservice. Most of them are European low cost airlines
            Customer specific setups. There is no way unfortunately to have all available options. We choose to use what is on Boeing official documents.
            Chris Makris (Olympic260)
            PMDG Technical Support
            http://www.pmdg.com

            Comment


              #7
              Funny thing is that Boeing sells it as a maximum 189 paxs -> https://www.boeing.com/commercial/737ng/

              And I recall that both 738/739 are certified to maximum 189 - due to exits limitations. That’s why the 739ER has the additional Exit, for extra capacity.

              In addition, 189 is a norm setup at many low cost airlines, mainly Ryanair:
              https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Ry...g_737-800.php#

              best regards!

              Rafael

              Comment


                #8
                Selecting two class layout (12/148), going into the FMC page for adding passengers, number of passengers by default are 12/184. Pressing "Full" changes to 12/148.

                This is with the latest xmas update
                Finn Jacobsen
                PC Spec.: i7 3770 3.4 Ghz, 16GB RAM, Nvidia GTX 960 4 GB, Windows 7 Home Edition

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by BAIRES View Post
                  Funny thing is that Boeing sells it as a maximum 189 paxs -> https://www.boeing.com/commercial/737ng/

                  And I recall that both 738/739 are certified to maximum 189 - due to exits limitations. That’s why the 739ER has the additional Exit, for extra capacity.

                  In addition, 189 is a norm setup at many low cost airlines, mainly Ryanair:
                  https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Ry...g_737-800.php#

                  best regards!

                  Rafael
                  The 739 can hold more than the 738 so invalid statement on that one unfortunately. Unless you wana squeeze people in worse than a sardine can.
                  Alex Kulak
                  PMDG Studier and flyer
                  Ramp Agent

                  Comment


                    #10
                    You've probably read it a thousand times already: Simply enter the ZFW for 189 pax. If you use that number the CG is not movable anymore anyway, every seat is used. If you want to count the pax boarding with GSX2 I dare to question your time management during the turn around

                    Kidding aside, the ZFW is all you need and 5 pax more or less won't change your flight dynamics.
                    i7-6700k, GTX 1080TI, 32GB DDR4 RAM @1600MHz, 4k

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Swaluver88 View Post

                      The 739 can hold more than the 738 so invalid statement on that one unfortunately. Unless you wana squeeze people in worse than a sardine can.
                      Actually - Boeing 737-900 is limited to 189 paxs. The 737-900ER is the one that reach 220 passengers.

                      That’s why there are so few 739 (just 55) and much more 739ER.

                      FYI: http://www.b737.org.uk/737ng.htm#737-900

                      Warm Regards!

                      Rafael Reca


                      Comment


                        #12
                        I have so fear to install the update i read only bugs.!!!!

                        best regards

                        Christian Urban

                        Comment


                        • mats0916
                          mats0916 commented
                          Editing a comment
                          Hi Christian
                          That's because only the negatives are reported here. All users who have positive experiences are not reporting as they do not feel anything needs to be addressed by the devs. .

                          Just like your daily news. 😉

                          Cheers

                        #13
                        Wiki says the same 189 and 737-900er with 220 Pax Max . yes she have 189 i Fly evry Year with Ryanair.




                        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing...ext_Generation
                        Christian Urban

                        Comment


                          #14
                          Ofcourse it's 189, everybody knows that. Only PMDG doesn't.

                          John Ruisch

                          Comment


                            #15
                            Just to put it in rest. From Boeing Airport Planning document for the 800

                            738.jpg

                            Yes some airliners can opt to add the 5 extra passenger seats and be like sardines We use that numbers. At the bottom line weight is weight and Max ZFW does not change.
                            Chris Makris (Olympic260)
                            PMDG Technical Support
                            http://www.pmdg.com

                            Comment


                              #16
                              Hi,
                              the funny thing is to see how many get "crazy" about passenger seat capacity (it's wrong you have to make an update to reach the maximum 189 pax etc.)...
                              i've been training into a professional B738 full motion simulator and there we never consider this problem..also in a professional simulator pax are "felt" in terms of weight and c.o.g. the simulator (and the real plane too) feels just weight and c.o.g. ...it's not "interested" to the number of seats etc.etc. just weight and c.o.g., also the aerodynamics of the plane is affected from weight and c.o.g. only....
                              You need to load 189 pax? Well, i.e. considering 84 kg per pax (pax+hand luggage) it's means (about) 15,9tons, you need to add some "extra" baggage in the cargo load? (nowadays here in Italy on domestic flights few pax have extra luggage but's let's say 15kg per 120 pax= 1,8 tons) so let's say 42 tons DOW (dry operating weight)+15,9+1,8=59,7 tons of ZFW, here it's your 189 pax! So easy and simple....

                              Best
                              Andrea Buono
                              Andrea Buono - Como - I

                              Comment


                                #17
                                Originally posted by Andrea1 View Post
                                Hi,
                                the funny thing is to see how many get "crazy" about passenger seat capacity (it's wrong you have to make an update to reach the maximum 189 pax etc.)...
                                i've been training into a professional B738 full motion simulator and there we never consider this problem..also in a professional simulator pax are "felt" in terms of weight and c.o.g. the simulator (and the real plane too) feels just weight and c.o.g. ...it's not "interested" to the number of seats etc.etc. just weight and c.o.g., also the aerodynamics of the plane is affected from weight and c.o.g. only....
                                You need to load 189 pax? Well, i.e. considering 84 kg per pax (pax+hand luggage) it's means (about) 15,9tons, you need to add some "extra" baggage in the cargo load? (nowadays here in Italy on domestic flights few pax have extra luggage but's let's say 15kg per 120 pax= 1,8 tons) so let's say 42 tons DOW (dry operating weight)+15,9+1,8=59,7 tons of ZFW, here it's your 189 pax! So easy and simple....
                                Yes, but one thing to keep in mind is if you're using the auto ground operations for your turn-arounds, the turn-around time factors in cargo and passenger loading, so putting passengers as cargo would end up increasing your turn time.
                                Captain Kevin

                                Kevin Yang

                                Comment


                                  #18
                                  Turn Time for Ryanair is 19min
                                  Christian Urban

                                  Comment


                                    #19
                                    Originally posted by cmakris View Post
                                    Boeing documentation on which the max seating is based gives 184 seats for single class.
                                    The 737-800 type certificate says 189 for the maximum capacity. I think it makes more sense to use the higher figure. It is possible to carry 189 therefore it should be selectable.
                                    Last edited by Kevin Hall; 28Dec2019, 13:02.

                                    Comment


                                      #20
                                      Originally posted by Kevin Hall View Post

                                      The 737-800 type certificate says 189 for the maximum capacity. I think it makes more sense to use the higher figure. It is possible to carry 189 therefore it should be selectable.
                                      Kevin, see the screenshot I have put in my previous post. This is the values form Boeing and this is what we are using.
                                      Chris Makris (Olympic260)
                                      PMDG Technical Support
                                      http://www.pmdg.com

                                      Comment


                                        #21
                                        Dear Captains!

                                        The Boeing document dates back to 2005 - when the 739ER wasn’t available (First flight 2006) and most probably Boeing wanted to make more attractive the 739 - therefore justifying the increased length at 189 pax’s for the 900 and reducing it to 184 for the 738.

                                        http://www.boeing.com/resources/boei.../acaps/737.pdf

                                        Fact is that there are actual operators at Y189 for the B738 - and Boeing states this at their latest “marketing page” and showcasing the advantage of the 739ER at 220 passengers - although most US carriers don’t use full capacity by offering more premium seats, inhibiting the Type II doors aft of the wing, required for the Y220.

                                        https://www.boeing.com/commercial/737ng/

                                        The most updated document for the Max family - shows the Max-8 at Y189 Maximum - and it’s exactly the same fuselage of 738.

                                        http://www.boeing.com/resources/boei...37MAX_RevE.pdf

                                        Thank you for your kind attention and Happy Flying!

                                        Rafael A. Reca

                                        Comment


                                          #22
                                          Originally posted by cmakris View Post

                                          Kevin, see the screenshot I have put in my previous post. This is the values form Boeing and this is what we are using.
                                          I saw that Chris, but the aircraft is certified to carry 189 passengers. Boeing had to conduct evacuation tests to prove it met the FAR time limit. 184 is a typical one class passenger number for airport planning purposes, it isn't the maximum for the aircraft. In my view it should be possible to set the maximum possible value, whether it's number of passengers, gross weight, zfw, etc. Using the figures from the aircraft type certificate makes more sense than those in a airport planning document.



                                          Comment


                                            #23
                                            The FAA and EASA Type Certificates dictate the maximum passenger capacities.

                                            737-800 & 737-900 - 189 pax.

                                            737-900ER - 220 pax depending on mod state.

                                            ken brattey.
                                            Kenneth Brattey

                                            Comment

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