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Serious Night FPS Drop

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    Serious Night FPS Drop

    The latest update is definitely an improvement on performance ...
    -BUT-
    ... something happens between the PMDG's DL and an airport with DL because it gets hammered to a FRAME and not much left for the PER SECOND

    For Example: same gate, same settings, same weather, different time, different plane
    [FPS capped at 30 on i7 7700 @ 4.2 with 32GB RAM on 1080Ti with 4K monitor and Vsync on]

    NGXu
    DAY: 30 FPS and it hardly drops
    NIGHT: 20-22 and jumping up and down
    with rain - it drops below 20 FPS

    NGX
    DAY: 30 FPS and stays on 30
    NIGHT: 29-30 with almost no drop below it
    rain has no effect because it has not been ill-fated by rainmaker

    MADDOG_X
    DAY or NIGHT ... max sliders ... throw in a thunderstorm, pump up the AI, remove one RAM stick, play F1 2019 in the background ... do whatever you want because the FPS will not drop or spill a single frame - rain or storm or sunshine ... no effect on FPS

    I think you get the point.
    Anything we could do to improve the performance at night
    ... or a workaround the DL issue without losing taxi and landing lights.

    PS: And while I'm at it ... please bring back the nose steering of the NGX. This is simply unrealistic, ineffective, and a pain in the a$$ to get around an airport.


    Terblanche Jordaan
    Cape Town

    #2
    What are your graphics settings?


    Have you tried the different tiller control options they added in the first patch?
    Alex Pugh

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by AirBadger View Post
      What are your graphics settings?

      Have you tried the different tiller control options they added in the first patch?
      Jip, I have but it is still erratic and the one moment it over-steers and then you correct and then it under-steers ... and sometimes the nose wheel from the outside could be 90% to the left or right and still going forward even under 10 knts. Don't know — this is a sim, and not all of us have fancy pedals and or a tiller ... we much prefer it as it was because turning the aircraft should not be an issue.
      Terblanche Jordaan
      Cape Town

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Terblanche View Post
        The latest update is definitely an improvement on performance ...
        -BUT-
        ... something happens between the PMDG's DL and an airport with DL because it gets hammered to a FRAME and not much left for the PER SECOND

        For Example: same gate, same settings, same weather, different time, different plane
        [FPS capped at 30 on i7 7700 @ 4.2 with 32GB RAM on 1080Ti with 4K monitor and Vsync on]

        NGXu
        DAY: 30 FPS and it hardly drops
        NIGHT: 20-22 and jumping up and down
        with rain - it drops below 20 FPS

        NGX
        DAY: 30 FPS and stays on 30
        NIGHT: 29-30 with almost no drop below it
        rain has no effect because it has not been ill-fated by rainmaker

        MADDOG_X
        DAY or NIGHT ... max sliders ... throw in a thunderstorm, pump up the AI, remove one RAM stick, play F1 2019 in the background ... do whatever you want because the FPS will not drop or spill a single frame - rain or storm or sunshine ... no effect on FPS

        I think you get the point.
        Anything we could do to improve the performance at night
        ... or a workaround the DL issue without losing taxi and landing lights.

        PS: And while I'm at it ... please bring back the nose steering of the NGX. This is simply unrealistic, ineffective, and a pain in the a$$ to get around an airport.

        Hi! Long time! Is your monitor set to 30Hz? I dont think you should run vsync on if at 60Hz...try switching off vsync..I have no issues with 30Hz monitor, unlimited frames, vsync on. My specs similar to yours.
        Last edited by Peter Webber; 21Nov2019, 19:41.
        Peter Webber

        Prepar3D v4 / Windows 10 Home Edition / CPU i7-7700K / MSI Z270 XPower Gaming Titanium / Samsung 960 EVO M.2 500GB / Corsair Vengeance DDR4 32GB 3000MHz / MSI Geforce GTX 1080Ti Gaming X

        Comment


          #5
          At night would suggest that you have lights on. The flood lights, taxi lights, and landing lights are all dynamic lights. These, by their very nature, will have a toll on FPS.
          Kyle Rodgers
          PMDG Developer Emeritus

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Peter Webber View Post

            Hi! Long time! Is your monitor set to 30Hz? I dont think you should run vsync on if at 60Hz...try switching off vsync..I have no issues with 30Hz monitor, unlimited frames, vsync on. My specs similar to yours.
            Hi Peter -
            I'm running P3D on a 4K monitor which only has 30Hz ... I've already experimented with VSync on/off ... and FPS = unlimited
            I've just done exactly the same flight with the FSLabs [I know I know compare apples with apples] but same settings, same weather, same everything and at the gate at ENGM the FPS is 30+ and it drops momentarily when taxiing and just after take-off ..... but with the NGXu it hovers between 20 and 25 with some lagging when taxiing, turning, and take-off role.

            krodgers
            All the other PMDG aircraft's lights are all dynamic lights, isn't it and none of them has this much of an effect on FPS (performance) ... not even the B748 that has the rainmaker too. During the day I could switch every single light on in the NGXu and there is NO drop in FPS but at night at an airport with DLs it's a whole different ball game - and throw in some rain/snow and I really struggle to maintain 20+ FPS
            Terblanche Jordaan
            Cape Town

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Terblanche View Post
              krodgers
              All the other PMDG aircraft's lights are all dynamic lights, isn't it and none of them has this much of an effect on FPS (performance) ... not even the B748 that has the rainmaker too. During the day I could switch every single light on in the NGXu and there is NO drop in FPS but at night at an airport with DLs it's a whole different ball game - and throw in some rain/snow and I really struggle to maintain 20+ FPS
              Really? That's interesting. I could've sworn I knew enough about our products to know that this isn't the case.

              Out of curiosity, have you noticed any difference with the interior lights? How are those modeled? What method there is different in only the NGXu?
              Kyle Rodgers
              PMDG Developer Emeritus

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by krodgers View Post

                Really? That's interesting. I could've sworn I knew enough about our products to know that this isn't the case.

                Out of curiosity, have you noticed any difference with the interior lights? How are those modeled? What method there is different in only the NGXu?
                What a snide reply ...

                NO, I don't know "how they were modelled", and no I don't know the "method there is different" ... but YES, I have "noticed the difference" and that is a serious FPS drop at night.

                Look at the two attached screenshots:
                • Dome and all other cockpit lights are on
                • Landing and all taxi lights are on
                • During the DAY >>> FPS = 40+
                • During the NIGHT >>> FPS = 14+
                ... and THAT is what this thread is all about.

                PMDG_DAY.jpg
                PMDG_NIGHT.jpg
                Last edited by Terblanche; 22Nov2019, 09:16.
                Terblanche Jordaan
                Cape Town

                Comment


                  #9
                  What are your graphics settings?

                  Yes, turning every single light on, including your dome light, is going to hurt FPS, especially if you’re sitting at a gate that has DL flood lighting - I see this in every add on that uses DL. Thankfully, the scenario in your screenshot isn’t a common one.
                  Alex Pugh

                  Comment


                    #10
                    From an earlier post the interior lights on all the previous PMDG aircraft are texture base. The NGXu is DL based.
                    Dan Moore

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Wise87 View Post
                      From an earlier post the interior lights on all the previous PMDG aircraft are texture base. The NGXu is DL based.
                      And VC texture base with the help of FSL Spotlights looked perfect and frame friendly to me, like in the good old NGX, VC Dynamic Lighting is too heavy to flight at night for a medium range PC like mine

                      Prepar3D 2019-10-23 21-10-12.jpg
                      Last edited by blueng; 22Nov2019, 17:01.
                      Alexis Nguyen

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Wise87 View Post
                        From an earlier post the interior lights on all the previous PMDG aircraft are texture base. The NGXu is DL based.
                        As far as I know all the PMDG aircraft's landing and taxi lights in P3D are DL based hence the fact they they only work with DL enabled in settings.

                        Originally posted by AirBadger View Post
                        What are your graphics settings?
                        Yes, turning every single light on, including your dome light, is going to hurt FPS, especially if you’re sitting at a gate that has DL flood lighting - I see this in every add on that uses DL. Thankfully, the scenario in your screenshot isn’t a common one.
                        All my settings in P3D are conservative and no slider is all the way to the right. The graphic settings are 2xMSAA and 8xTexFiltering. I only turned up all the lights to show Kyle what I mean that there is one hell of a difference what the NGXu does with lights during the day and during the night especially at an airport with its own DL.
                        Terblanche Jordaan
                        Cape Town

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by blueng View Post

                          And VC texture base with the help of FSL Spotlights looked perfect and frame friendly to me, like in the good old NGX, VC Dynamic Lighting is too heavy to flight at night for a medium range PC like mine
                          Do you mind sharing your spotlights.ini file ...? Please
                          Terblanche Jordaan
                          Cape Town

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I had the same problem until I replaced my GeForce 1080 Ti with a GeForce 2080 Ti. A bit expensive but It worked for me! very smooth frames at night now!

                            Regards

                            Doug M.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Terblanche View Post

                              As far as I know all the PMDG aircraft's landing and taxi lights in P3D are DL based hence the fact they they only work with DL enabled in settings.
                              I know the exterior are and have always been DL. I asked PMDG when the NGXu first came out about the VC floods and I was told that the VC are now DL and all the others are TB.
                              Link
                              Dan Moore

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Originally posted by Terblanche View Post

                                What a snide reply ...

                                NO, I don't know "how they were modelled", and no I don't know the "method there is different" ... but YES, I have "noticed the difference" and that is a serious FPS drop at night.

                                [...]

                                PMDG_DAY.jpg
                                PMDG_NIGHT.jpg
                                It was certainly a pointed response, primarily because I stepped in to help, and you essentially said "no, this is how it works."

                                ...but it's not.

                                Look at the two pictures you've posted (I've left them in the quoted text). You clearly have the floods on. None of our products up until now have used dynamic lighting fully. We have used external dynamic lighting, but never on the flight deck. This is why I made specific reference to this in my first post: "The flood lights, [...]." As such, any comparison to any other product is a moot point. It's a lot easier on your system to render taxi and landing lights on the external environment - mostly flat planes, and/or straightforward structures - but on the flight deck, you're rendering light onto all kinds of complex switches, knobs, and other surfaces. This complexity will cause a system to bog down.
                                Kyle Rodgers
                                PMDG Developer Emeritus

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Hey Kyle,

                                  I wonder if you guys can do a non-dynamic lighted version of interior/exterior. There's no point to have them dynamic if we can not use the lights in the mid end systems like mine.

                                  I think that'd be great if there is a chance you to do it.

                                  thanks in advance
                                  Cengizhan Barut

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by besyoyolu7 View Post
                                    Hey Kyle,

                                    I wonder if you guys can do a non-dynamic lighted version of interior/exterior. There's no point to have them dynamic if we can not use the lights in the mid end systems like mine.

                                    I think that'd be great if there is a chance you to do it.

                                    thanks in advance
                                    Yes one vote from me, for the mid range PC it is too much to handle VC Dynamic lighting + landing lights
                                    Alexis Nguyen

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      For as nice as they are, why is anyone using them at all when in motion? Do you all drive around at night with the car dome lights on, too?
                                      [Genuine question, by the way.]
                                      Kyle Rodgers
                                      PMDG Developer Emeritus

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by krodgers View Post
                                        For as nice as they are, why is anyone using them at all when in motion? Do you all drive around at night with the car dome lights on, too?
                                        [Genuine question, by the way.]
                                        If you fly with a GTX 970 like mine, even without flood light / dome, just panel light on, it is still heavy on fps during taxi + take off roll with Landing light + runway + taxi light.
                                        Alexis Nguyen

                                        Comment


                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by krodgers View Post
                                          For as nice as they are, why is anyone using them at all when in motion? Do you all drive around at night with the car dome lights on, too?
                                          [Genuine question, by the way.]
                                          I actually don't use dome light but as Alexis mentioned with landing lights and a bit of flood lights makes my fps terrible in the night time.
                                          I know our systems might be outdated but that was just a request thay may fix the problem in my opinion.

                                          I don't know the logic behind the lighting system and don't know if you guys can do it or consider to do it.

                                          anyway,thanks
                                          Cengizhan Barut

                                          Comment


                                            #22
                                            I agree with Barut. I will be helpful if you guys put some option in order to select the type of light. Thinking in the customer that cannot afford a new GPU in a short time.

                                            Alejandro Del Barrio.

                                            Comment


                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by besyoyolu7 View Post
                                              Hey Kyle,

                                              I wonder if you guys can do a non-dynamic lighted version of interior/exterior. There's no point to have them dynamic if we can not use the lights in the mid end systems like mine.

                                              I think that'd be great if there is a chance you to do it.

                                              thanks in advance
                                              This would be very useful for night ops. I'm not able to upgrade my GPU for a while. Having this option for the flight deck would help a lot.

                                              Although, I do understand this might be a lot of extra work for the team.

                                              The recent update really helped with the performance during the day. It's just night flying that remains. (For the reasons Kyle mentioned above).

                                              Thank you.
                                              Sante Sottile - CYVR

                                              Comment


                                                #24
                                                Another example how much impact have the new dynamic lights on the GTX 980 TI Classified:

                                                Old PMDG: 35% GPU.
                                                New PMDG: 100% GPU.

                                                Alejandro Del Barrio.

                                                Comment


                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by krodgers View Post
                                                  For as nice as they are, why is anyone using them at all when in motion? Do you all drive around at night with the car dome lights on, too?
                                                  [Genuine question, by the way.]
                                                  Going from RL experience here, most captains I've flown with leave the dome lights except during takeoff and landing... pitch black night across the Atlantic, bright as hell in the cockpit, dunno why either... I don't like them on at night, but captain makes the rules.
                                                  Joseph Chamberlain
                                                  Aircraft Dispatcher - UPS Airlines

                                                  Comment


                                                    #26
                                                    Originally posted by krodgers View Post

                                                    It was certainly a pointed response, primarily because I stepped in to help, and you essentially said "no, this is how it works."
                                                    ...but it's not.
                                                    Look at the two pictures you've posted (I've left them in the quoted text). You clearly have the floods on. None of our products up until now have used dynamic lighting fully. We have used external dynamic lighting, but never on the flight deck. This is why I made specific reference to this in my first post: "The flood lights, [...]." As such, any comparison to any other product is a moot point. It's a lot easier on your system to render taxi and landing lights on the external environment - mostly flat planes, and/or straightforward structures - but on the flight deck, you're rendering light onto all kinds of complex switches, knobs, and other surfaces. This complexity will cause a system to bog down.
                                                    I think we don't hear each-other and words are usually the beginning of all misunderstanding. The point I'm trying to make —
                                                    1. There is a huge difference in FPS between day and night
                                                    2. The screenshots show that I can turn up ALL the lights during the day and it has NO (or very little) influence on FPS (at least not on my setup)
                                                    3. At night, at an airport with DL, the FPS drops by half
                                                    4. No, I don't fly at night with ALL the lights on, this was only to demonstrate the point I'm trying to make because night flying with one or seven lights on has a huge impact on FPS
                                                    I'm not trying to tell you "this is how PMDG lights work" — not at all, because I have no idea ... as a matter of fact I don't have a clue.
                                                    I simply want to share, show, inform you that this is the influence of "how-it-works" on my PC.

                                                    With so many voices asking the same questions, I think I'll rest my case for now and give PMDG breathing space to find a solution to the problem.

                                                    Terblanche Jordaan
                                                    Cape Town

                                                    Comment


                                                      #27
                                                      I have a high end machine and also notice the planes taxi and runway lights at night definitely lower my freaky rates by 5 FPS. And this is only for the 737. On my 747-8 this does not happen. I still get great FPS so it is not a concern. Just reporting the facts
                                                      Paul Gugliotta
                                                      United 257 heavy

                                                      Comment


                                                        #28
                                                        After the update, I can have up to 3-5 lights or so in the VC; the dynamic lights seem to be workkable if you keep your siders down. I have a 60 hz monitor so I have to keep my dreaded fps at 60 fps via triple buffering and v sync or I get screen tearing. Tried the RTS stuff; could not get suitable results. It can be done, I have a mid-level i5 8600k at 4.9 ghz and a 2070, could still do it on the 1080. I can have most external lights on (up to 7 or so) and the VC ones and still have good performance as I keep things lean in the sim to compensate as all my focus is in the VC. Chk out this video as I did testing using the lights as I should on a small flight at night. Still learning the 737, so getting better as my last flight had VNAV to LNAV all the way; amazing when it all works with constraints etc etc. I love the 'add drag' indicator on the FMC that comes up if need be! Excuse the dome on most of the flight, I can test better with full light on in there.


                                                        https://youtu.be/uHOA0ACfE5k

                                                        Comment


                                                          #29
                                                          So back again with my test :

                                                          With only Panel light on, no Landing + Taxi/Runway light, the fps is fine, with around 29 - 30 fps (fps locked at 33 fps)

                                                          With Panel Light on + Landing and Taxi/Runway Light, fps drops approximately 11-12 fps to around 17 - 20 fps and then if flying in some heavy airports, it is hard to say it is flyable.

                                                          Hope PMDG team can consider this, for those mid range GPU Card, it is better to have a solution to fly at night. (Or if possible to have option to switch to a lighting like previous PMDG products)

                                                          My settings GPU GTX970, i7 4790k 4Ghz , 16 GB RAM

                                                          Thanks guys,
                                                          Last edited by blueng; 24Nov2019, 17:27.
                                                          Alexis Nguyen

                                                          Comment


                                                            #30
                                                            Experiencing the exact same here.

                                                            I7-8750HQ 4,1 GHZ with external GTX1070.

                                                            During the day it's butter smooth, during the night.... not so much.
                                                            Regards

                                                            Hamza [email protected]

                                                            Comment

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