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Taxi Behavior as well as In Flight Behavior

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    Taxi Behavior as well as In Flight Behavior

    I want to preface that I do NOT have a 737 type, however...I have noticed two strange anomalies in flight/on ground. I am posting here because I d like to see if this is an isolated issue or not.

    1. Nosewheel seems to have a drag on it when trying to make tight turns, especially with differential braking. Almost seems to float or drag rather than turn with the nose. I am not sure what the limitations on degrees are, but what the nosewheel animation shows versus whats expected seems to be entirely different. I have used this with various weights and temperatures.

    2. During climb and or descent, right at around 200 knots, (clean during climb, or transiting from flaps 1 to flaps up), as well as during the descent in both clean and with spoilers/slat flaps out, I notice that there seems to be a skid that occurs, and it is always to the right. Doesn't happen in left turns. It's also very radical, and not normal, especially not with a yaw damper equipped.

    I have ensured that all controls are calibrated and there are no dual inputs. I have also ensured that weather programs are utilized appropriately with smoothing over the various altitude changes so its not a rapid shift in winds aloft. Perhaps I am missing something here, and can anyone verify that they too, have had this occur?

    Note-I just updated to the latest release so I will see if any of these behaviors indicated above repeat themselves.
    CA JP Walden
    ATPMEL, IRA E170/190PIC, CE525 SIC
    CFI/MEI/II

    #2
    Taxi issue should be solved with the latest update, which you have.
    Captain Kevin

    Kevin Yang

    Comment


      #3
      Thanks for that, Kevin, will check and report back.
      CA JP Walden
      ATPMEL, IRA E170/190PIC, CE525 SIC
      CFI/MEI/II

      Comment


        #4
        Follow on-seems like the rudder has moments of hard over. It goes way uncoordinated and then swings back to Center. Definitely something going on with the yaw damper.
        CA JP Walden
        ATPMEL, IRA E170/190PIC, CE525 SIC
        CFI/MEI/II

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by ProPilot85140 View Post
          Follow on-seems like the rudder has moments of hard over. It goes way uncoordinated and then swings back to Center. Definitely something going on with the yaw damper.
          In many hours of testing and since release I've not seen any rudder anomaly. Not sayin' you don't see it, but am asking for the conditions that trigger it.
          Dan Downs KCRP

          Comment


          • ProPilot85140
            ProPilot85140 commented
            Editing a comment
            Dan, if you read my above post-

            Happens in both climbout as well as descent, right around the 200-210 knot IAS mark. On complex RNAV it will throw the rudder in both directions. On the FOXXX5 Last night into Tampa, it did on a straight segment, but near the decel or just past the decel point. I am trying to isolate it to one specific instance of it doing it, but there seems to be variations. Winds were 182/18 knots on the descent last night. Did it on the departure out of DEN last night too. Right around 200 knots. I am not sure if its a Weight/AoA/slat/flap configuration issue, but its definitely running way too much rudder when its not necessary. Ill see if it does it again today.

          #6
          Originally posted by ProPilot85140 View Post
          Follow on-seems like the rudder has moments of hard over. It goes way uncoordinated and then swings back to Center. Definitely something going on with the yaw damper.
          Rudder hard overs were supposed to be fixed with Classics. Using FSUIPC? Control spikes?
          ​​​​​​

          Comment


            #7
            Jason,

            No control spikes, and feet are not on the rudder pedals when this occurs. I am using TM Pendular Rudder Pedals, and I set my weather programs up to keep it smooth (similar to the tutorial and infographics included with the Bird). FSUIPC is being used, but calibrated and no curves or changes. Have been doing this for a while, in addition to being a BETA tester for other entities. Only aircraft I have seen do this (not a full hard over, but its enough deflection to make it go uncoordinated as well as dip a wing)
            CA JP Walden
            ATPMEL, IRA E170/190PIC, CE525 SIC
            CFI/MEI/II

            Comment


              #8
              Im havin the same problem just with the NGXu
              Best regards
              Brendon Powys
              Johannesburg

              Comment


                #9
                Originally posted by ProPilot85140 View Post
                1. Nosewheel seems to have a drag on it when trying to make tight turns, especially with differential braking. Almost seems to float or drag rather than turn with the nose. I am not sure what the limitations on degrees are, but what the nosewheel animation shows versus whats expected seems to be entirely different. I have used this with various weights and temperatures.
                Do you mean the animation of the gear turning on the outside model or what exactly?
                If you refer to the actual steering angle, that is quite correct with a full tiller input. You can actually turn a 737 around the corner like this. I was surprised to see it as well on my first line flight when the captain overshot the nose over the centerline like I always did with the 777 in P3D at that time! But it works perfectly.
                If you mean that the nosewheel actually seems to cause a LOT of drag during a turn: I agree with you here, using full tiller seems to give you a LOT of additional drag in the NGXu. The real one rolls a bit nicer with full tiller input.

                Originally posted by ProPilot85140 View Post
                2. During climb and or descent, right at around 200 knots, (clean during climb, or transiting from flaps 1 to flaps up), as well as during the descent in both clean and with spoilers/slat flaps out, I notice that there seems to be a skid that occurs, and it is always to the right. Doesn't happen in left turns. It's also very radical, and not normal, especially not with a yaw damper equipped.
                I don't recall seeing this right now, but I'll keep an eye open on my next flights!
                Greetings,
                Emanuel Hagen

                Comment


                • Santi871
                  Santi871 commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Once you are down to like 5 knots, you can turn at full tiller deflection forever without needing to add any thrust and it will forever hover around 5-7kt. Seems like a bug to me. Only tested with a light aircraft.

                #10
                Emanuel,

                The animation will go full deflection but the aircraft does not turn in similar fashion. Issue was resolved with this last update.

                Still having the rudder issues though.
                CA JP Walden
                ATPMEL, IRA E170/190PIC, CE525 SIC
                CFI/MEI/II

                Comment


                  #11
                  Strangely, I have also experienced hard over yaw deflection but to the left. I have a X56 HOTAS (new gen), not the best yoke but never encountered this before. Also in flight the ruder will go full left WITHOUT disconnecting the AP. The 737 tries to stay on track by banking right. I did fly like this for ~30s and the AP did not disconnect leading me to belive it was not a spike.
                  The "anomaly" is gone if I slightly give a oposite twist of the rudder.
                  Gerald Krutsch - Germany

                  Comment


                    #12
                    Originally posted by ProPilot85140 View Post
                    Emanuel,

                    The animation will go full deflection but the aircraft does not turn in similar fashion. Issue was resolved with this last update.

                    Still having the rudder issues though.
                    Can you explain the rudder issue in more detail? Sounds like an axis conflict or hardware spikes. Something is commanding this and the aircraft is correcting it (thus why it goes all out of line and snaps right back). Check for duplicate rudder assignments. Check to be sure you’re using a filler axis different from your rudder axis.
                    Kyle Rodgers
                    PMDG Simulations

                    Comment


                      #13
                      Screenshot for comparison. Axis is clean for now, almost seems like the gain/ damping is off by about a second or two from the roll inputs.

                      Not quite sure what you mean by "filler" axis...
                      CA JP Walden
                      ATPMEL, IRA E170/190PIC, CE525 SIC
                      CFI/MEI/II

                      Comment


                        #14
                        Here is the tiller/nosewheel alignment angle. Picture was taken at 10 knots (standard turning speed) and I was attempting to make the sharp left there. As you can see it did not happen. With the tiller going that far over, the nose should be going with it, or at least turning in that direction. Instead it seems that the response is severely delayed. Note, it is only in this aircraft that this occurs. Things such as the 747-800,777, don t seem to have these issues. Neither does the Legacy NGX ported over.
                        CA JP Walden
                        ATPMEL, IRA E170/190PIC, CE525 SIC
                        CFI/MEI/II

                        Comment


                          #15
                          Originally posted by ProPilot85140 View Post
                          Not quite sure what you mean by "filler" axis...
                          Assuming that was a typo and supposed to be tiller axis.
                          Captain Kevin

                          Kevin Yang

                          Comment


                            #16
                            Alright guys, did a flight with a change to the tiller axis as well as double checked the rudder axis, etc. No changes, behavior repeats itself. Both the taxi issue (still there) and the rudder kick issue. What it seems like is a significant lag between the roll of the airplane and rudder input to coordinate the turn, and it doesn t happen. Rudder takes close to 3-5 seconds to respond, then it will kick in, but over compensate in a hard direction.

                            So in summary-
                            1. This is NOT normal rudder/roll behavior...no FAR 25 airplane would have that much of uncommanded rudder input (I also checked failures)
                            2. It is not an issue with FSUIPC or 3rd Party Weather Addons-RX Environment Force and AS
                            3. Controls are all calibrated, and FSUIPC does have control spikes eliminated (spikes are also very unlikely on Virpil software)
                            4. Seems to happen in any sort of DIRTY or Clean configuration between 200-250 knots. All flaps configs, as well as gear down, both climb and descent.
                            5. Seems to be isolated to certain users/owners-only one other report of the rudder issue. I doubt this is a coding issue (although might be-you guys are very thorough)

                            I'll happily standby to see if I can nail this issue down further for you all.
                            CA JP Walden
                            ATPMEL, IRA E170/190PIC, CE525 SIC
                            CFI/MEI/II

                            Comment


                              #17
                              Honestly that sounds like faulty hardware that gives erroneous inputs once in a while.
                              Marc Bonaldo
                              Armchair Pilot

                              Comment


                              • ProPilot85140
                                ProPilot85140 commented
                                Editing a comment
                                Except that I can narrow down when and where they are occurring to a T. Its repetitive and repeatable, not random.

                              #18
                              I have no reports on this on my end. Wonder if its faulty hardware reading
                              Alex Kulak
                              PMDG Studier and flyer
                              Ramp Agent

                              Comment

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