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HYD fluid System A refill

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    HYD fluid System A refill

    Hello!
    I have done some flights now and I noticed that I have to refill HYD system A before every flight.

    I have service based failures on. During the flight I get no warning or indication of a hydraulic failure... Landings are normal, means I dont crash it on the runway.

    Anyone has tipps what I do wrong here?

    Thank you!
    Klaus Schmitzer

    #2
    +1

    Exact same situation.
    Got Nose Wheel imbalance also quite often
    Guenter Steiner

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Rhinozherous View Post
      Hello!
      I have done some flights now and I noticed that I have to refill HYD system A before every flight.

      I have service based failures on. During the flight I get no warning or indication of a hydraulic failure... Landings are normal, means I dont crash it on the runway.

      Anyone has tipps what I do wrong here?

      Thank you!
      +1

      Got the same for HYD A but I have all failures disabled - weird.

      I tryed a workaround and I did load the cold and dark panel state via fmc and after that I did a ground maintenance for hydraulic and saved this state as new panel state which is actually my startup panel state - negativ

      Regards
      Michael Grebesits
      Last edited by lesgrebe; 13Nov2019, 18:21.
      Michael Grebesits

      Comment


        #4
        Are you using any pane state when loading the plane?
        Chris Makris (Olympic260)
        PMDG Technical Support
        http://www.pmdg.com

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by cmakris View Post
          Are you using any pane state when loading the plane?
          Hello, yes!

          I used the default panel state NGXU COLD DARK and saved this as a new panel state called NGXU COLD DARK2 which is actually my default state. After the HYD A minimum level error I did the hyd maintenance and saved this for workaround again as NGXU COLD DARK2.

          Regards
          Michael Grebesits
          Michael Grebesits

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by cmakris View Post
            Are you using any pane state when loading the plane?
            I use the Cold and Dark state as Startup state that came with the plane.
            Klaus Schmitzer

            Comment


              #7
              emmm, if load a panel state will override the maintenance state, what's good for accumulated maintenance based failure?

              ZHU Hai
              B737 Ground instructor

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by AngelofAttack View Post
                emmm, if load a panel state will override the maintenance state, what's good for accumulated maintenance based failure?
                Nope. This is saved on the reg.ini file. Loading a saved panel state will not overide them
                Chris Makris (Olympic260)
                PMDG Technical Support
                http://www.pmdg.com

                Comment


                  #9
                  Just had the HYD failure as well.

                  Loaded up the Southwest 738 to configure some equipment options. Sitting on the runway at KVCV, added ground power, changed some options, started the APU, noticed the HYD A was low.

                  Failure came back after a lap in the pattern even though the SYS page showed 92%.
                  Matt Kramer

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Gents,

                    I'd like to have a bit more information here on what you are seeing?

                    Specifically I'd like to know what indication you are using to determine that the airplane is low on hydraulic fluid in system A?

                    Robert S. Randazzo
                    PMDG Simulations
                    http://www.pmdg.com


                    Comment


                      #11
                      I have had to spend a lot of time with a HYD A failure to the point that I did not have enough to get flaps going; I have failures off. It seems to present itself when I load from the created panel state 'turn around' that I created that came with the documentation. After a few flights I get the HYD issues of low fuel and pressure despite having enough fuel. The first two or free have no issues. No issue from starting fresh, but the panel state loading is a lot quicker as I work full time not in aviation. It has not happened the last three flights so maybe there was an issue with the first created 'turn around state' as I have created a new one and touch wood seems to be ok.

                      Failures off as well in FMC.

                      The plane is awesome; I love the wingflex and the texture on the VC windows; plus everything else. What a beautiful plane!


                      Here is a video that shows the panel state and other things; maybe I have something wrong...If it happens again, how do I fix it without having to recreate all the panel states etc?

                      https://youtu.be/-YW0r6J_vr0​​​​​​

                      Simon
                      Last edited by simon747; 13Nov2019, 08:29.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by rsrandazzo View Post
                        Gents,

                        I'd like to have a bit more information here on what you are seeing?

                        Specifically I'd like to know what indication you are using to determine that the airplane is low on hydraulic fluid in system A?
                        For me, I noticed it first in the FMC because I clicked "Failures" just to play around. It was active, and then I checked the SYS page and saw the quantity in A at ~63%.

                        I reset the failure by using the ground mx options to refill the fluid, took off, landed, and checked the failures page again. After landing it was both SYS A and the gear imbalance failure, but the quantity still read 92%.
                        Matt Kramer

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by rsrandazzo View Post
                          Gents,

                          I'd like to have a bit more information here on what you are seeing?

                          Specifically I'd like to know what indication you are using to determine that the airplane is low on hydraulic fluid in system A?
                          The red active failure message in the failure menu. When I remember correctly the quantity is something about 62 on the sys page and shows "RF".
                          Klaus Schmitzer

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Just want to add I am having similar issue although it was Sys B. I noticed Sys A was 100% and system B was 63% while taxiing. I don't have any failures enabled but did have the red active failure message. I selected clear all and the low pressure light extinguished. Upon landing Sys B was now 25 and I could not raise flaps or store No 2 thrust reverser. Since I was on ground I selected service all and everything went back to 100%. I also notice engine oil always starts at engine 1 99% engine 2 93% but by the time I started taxiing they are both in the upper 60's low 70's for percentage. My panel state is always previous flight so not sure if that has anything to do with it

                            Thank you,
                            David Schleck
                            David Schleck

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by rsrandazzo View Post
                              Gents,

                              I'd like to have a bit more information here on what you are seeing?

                              Specifically I'd like to know what indication you are using to determine that the airplane is low on hydraulic fluid in system A?
                              Hello Mr. Randazzo

                              I´ve noticed it the first time yesterday at the upper overhead panel after the engine start when I´ve done my panelflow because I saw that ENG1 HYDA LOW PRESSURE light is illuminatet and in this case my QTY was about 25% and I´ve done the GROUND MAINT <SERVICE HYD FLUID and after that everything was fine.

                              Today for my flight I´ve startet an new scenario and load the 737-800NGXu PMDG House Blended Winglets aircraft and saw that RF (Refill?) is displayed at system page next QTY (75%). Then I checked the FMC - see attached screenshots. After engine start the RF message disappeard but the FMC state on failures page stays but I also have to say that I haven´t tryed to use CLR ACTIVE/ALL function...


                              FMC FAILURES PAGE and SYS PAGE LOWER DU:

                              image_3456.jpgimage_3457.jpgimage_3458.jpg

                              FMC SIMULATION PAGE:

                              image_3459.jpg

                              FMC FAILURES PAGE and SYS PAGE LOWER DU after ENGINE START:

                              Failures_3_after_engine_start.JPG


                              Hope this helps a little bit......and maybe this is a normal behavior, if so I would like to apologize

                              Regards
                              Michael Grebesits

                              My System:
                              OS: Win10 Prof
                              FS: P3D V4.5 HF2 (complete install)
                              Last edited by lesgrebe; 13Nov2019, 18:39.
                              Michael Grebesits

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Gents,

                                Okay- so time for a bit of systems class...

                                The NG series airplanes is a bit different in that it shows you a digital quantity readout that is non-compensated, meaning that as fluid is used in the system to, say, deploy flaps, the quantity on the indication will change.

                                In PMDG 737NGXuwe have modeled the fluid quantity of the entire system and all of it's sub-systems. The fluid is contained in a reservoir, and a computation of it's flow patterns is maintained in real time in order to account for heat production, cooling and pressure distribution system-wide. This includes volume tracking, so as you move various parts that require hydraulic fluid to operate, they will pull fluid from the reservoir or return it to the reservoir depending upon system state.

                                (If you leave the display up in flight, you get a good indication of what is using fluid and what is not...)

                                The NG airplane has it's hydraulic fluid tanks in the gear bay, for those who don't know, which dramatically helps with fluid cooling. We have modeled the physical properties of the fluid to include specific gravity, etc- and this does cause some variation in measured quantity as temperature changes.

                                Now- one thing that goes on in the global fleet is that most operators will check the hydraulic fluid quantity during a routine service check, and they evaluate the displayed quantity based upon current air temperatures and the length of time since the airplane last flew. They do this because topping the system in a cold environment and then sending it to a warm environment will guarantee that the system overlfows and makes a mess of the airplane.

                                This is why we use the term SERVICE HYDRAULICS rather than "REFILL" in the maintenance menu. If you watch the service results, you will notice that in warm climates and cold climates, pressing the SERVICE button will give you slightly different resulting levels of fluid.


                                So- if you are seeing levels in the high 70s to 106% on the display- just leave things well enough alone. The airplane likely has fluid stored off in a system someplace and it will return when the airplane is under a different configuration.

                                If the airplane is showing you a RF (refill) indication on the display, then you have definitely lost fluid and we will want to explore this further if you haven't had service based failures activated.

                                Coders Note: You can do one thing with NGXu that you cannot do with the real airplane, and that is to change options packages on the fly with the FMS in real time. We found during testing that some of our beta testers would do something odd like "raise the spoilers, switch to the short field package, lower the spoilers, switch to normal package, raise the spoilers and if I do this 50 times i can drain the A system of fluid."

                                I spent quite a bit of time chasing this sort of craziness while also scheduling random drug tests for a few of our beta testers because it seems that no sane person should sit back and ponder "what happens if I...."

                                I am relatively certain we nailed all of those down- but if those of you seeing a loss of fluid can give me some idea of anything you changed or other oddities that would help to chase down a potential loss of fluid that is "logic driven."

                                Conclusion: I'm not seeing anything here that worries me- but a couple of you appear to be seeing behavior that doesn't sound right- so I want to keep any eye on your results.


                                Robert S. Randazzo
                                PMDG Simulations
                                http://www.pmdg.com


                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Hello again!

                                  Thx. for the information

                                  Just to confirm because I didn´t mentioned it - I haven´t changed any aircraft settings in the FMC like failures, etc. during a flight.

                                  Yes I have and had SERVICE-BASED FAILURES OFF as you can see in the screenshots in my previous post (#15) but I get RF displayed next QTY (HYD A at 76%@TAT 4°C/1006HPA) everytime I load the aircraft till I start the engines - so is this a normal behavior which is shown even I have the option SERVICE-BASED FAILURES disabled (off)??

                                  FCOM2.JPG

                                  Thanks in advance for your feedback!

                                  Regards
                                  Michael Grebesits
                                  Last edited by lesgrebe; 13Nov2019, 22:59.
                                  Michael Grebesits

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    I have the same issue.

                                    Every time I load the aircraft, the aircraft is in a cold and dark state, I need to refill the SYS A hydraulic fluid. I do have service-based failures and load last oil state enabled, however, I haven't even powered up the hydraulic system since the last refill.

                                    Comment


                                    • lesgrebe
                                      lesgrebe commented
                                      Editing a comment
                                      You have failures off or on?

                                      Regards
                                      Michael G.

                                    • Loma
                                      Loma commented
                                      Editing a comment
                                      Currently, service-based failures are on.

                                    #19
                                    So let me get this straight. I am not complaining, just want to understand this as I wasted 4 or so hours with this and really enjoy the plane It came back today, but I serviced the hydraulic system via FMC and it seemed to fix it. So, if I have service- based failures disabled and I get the error again. I need to preform a service via the FMC to the hydraulic system; while on the ground? I have tried clearing the message via the FMC but it does not fix it? If I load a new panel state, the problem with the hydraulic system will supersede the panel state load and take priority despite having service-based failures disabled? The only way to rid it is do the maintenance? I seemed to rid it initially by starting a new turnaround state from scratch, but it came back today again...

                                    PS--are all hydraulic pumps (the 4 switches that say (elec and eng) to be off a in a turn around state with the engines off and APU on; the 4 switches? Or are some on and some off; I have seen a combination of everything and I wonder if that is doing something to the system. Fuel pumps positions while in a turnaround state; does that matter? Mine or off right until I am ready to start the engines...
                                    Last edited by simon747; 13Nov2019, 22:59.

                                    Comment


                                      #20
                                      I have to confirm that this happens to me also. Turning service based failures ON/OFF makes no difference. It always appears both as failure in PMDG setup section and as RF notion on SYS page of the aircraft itself. If I clear the failure, refill HYD fluid, the problem does not reappear when I reload the panel state to cold and dark. It returns only after I restart the whole sim.
                                      Jan Vysoký

                                      Comment


                                        #21
                                        What my assumption's here with the PMDG system when you hit service hydraulic system it stop's the system from operating as it does the refill process, but I could be wrong as I am not on the Dev team, what I have noticed in the pictures posted so far that engines are running so the (EDP) Engine Driven Hydraulic Pumps are most likely on and you are trying to refill with flaps and slats extended which are powered by the A system hydraulic system, so, please try this process if you are getting the RF on system A (without engines running) make sure you have a ground power source (GPU or APU) ensure the flaps and slats are in the retract position and thrust reversers are both in the stowed position, ensure the battery switch is selected on and "ELEC" hydraulic pumps A & B Off, then resume to try the refill process through the FMC hydraulic servicing page.

                                        Justin Evans
                                        Justin Evans

                                        Comment


                                          #22
                                          Originally posted by MojoGaming View Post
                                          A system hydraulic system, so, please try this process if you are getting the RF on system A (without engines running) make sure you have a ground power source (GPU or APU) ensure the flaps and slats are in the retract position and thrust reversers are both in the stowed position, ensure the battery switch is selected on and "ELEC" hydraulic pumps A & B Off, then resume to try the refill process through the FMC hydraulic servicing page.

                                          Justin Evans
                                          Thanks for the advice.

                                          My engines will be off and aircraft state as you suggest as above when doing the HYD servicing (despite service-based failures off). Will this fix this issue as the HYD is not tied to panel state? Meaning it is tied to the .ini file file, so when I start again after servicing the HYD as above and then reload with a turnaround panel state the hydraulic issue will be gone? I don't have a lot of time to start each flight from cold and dark etc, prefer to start with a turn around state as suggest in the manual.

                                          Comment


                                            #23
                                            Originally posted by MojoGaming View Post
                                            What my assumption's here with the PMDG system when you hit service hydraulic system it stop's the system from operating as it does the refill process, but I could be wrong as I am not on the Dev team, what I have noticed in the pictures posted so far that engines are running so the (EDP) Engine Driven Hydraulic Pumps are most likely on and you are trying to refill with flaps and slats extended which are powered by the A system hydraulic system, so, please try this process if you are getting the RF on system A (without engines running) make sure you have a ground power source (GPU or APU) ensure the flaps and slats are in the retract position and thrust reversers are both in the stowed position, ensure the battery switch is selected on and "ELEC" hydraulic pumps A & B Off, then resume to try the refill process through the FMC hydraulic servicing page.

                                            Justin Evans
                                            To me problem appears whenever I start the sim and load the plane in C&D panel state. I just turn ON the battery, connect the ground power, and look on the SYS page when it appears. All pumps are off and all flaps retracted. I do refill at this state. It appears again next time I start the sim (It does not appear after I just load C&D state again).

                                            To simon 747: No this does not fix the issue.
                                            Jan Vysoký

                                            Comment


                                              #24
                                              rsrandazzo any update on this? Kind of annoying to start every flight with clearing failures and refilling hydraulic fluid.

                                              Comment


                                                #25
                                                I decided to pay attention to this on my last flight because i've been getting weird hyd sys refill req all the time

                                                loaded my saved scenario for n901nn (aal 800 bw)

                                                refilled. so i'm starting with 92 92

                                                at cruise: 106 92 (???)

                                                at shutdown: 90 92

                                                save scenario, shut down p3d, relaunch.. reload same scenario 4 minutes later

                                                90 81

                                                and b sys qty refill req is in the failures

                                                Mike Teague - p3dv4.4 - B736 B737 B738 B739 B77L B77W B744 B748

                                                Comment


                                                  #26
                                                  Gents,

                                                  Have managed to reproduce on my machine so I will pass the exact steps to the development team to investigate and fix
                                                  Chris Makris (Olympic260)
                                                  PMDG Technical Support
                                                  http://www.pmdg.com

                                                  Comment


                                                  • lesgrebe
                                                    lesgrebe commented
                                                    Editing a comment
                                                    Hy Chris,

                                                    as always thanks!

                                                    Regards
                                                    Michael Grebesits

                                                  #27
                                                  Originally posted by cmakris View Post
                                                  Gents,

                                                  Have managed to reproduce on my machine so I will pass the exact steps to the development team to investigate and fix
                                                  That is good news that you have been able to find it. That is the only odd thing I get; (see attached photo) despite having failures disabled in the FMC I get this from time to time and it seems to fix itself if I preform maintenance on the HYD systems? Very enjoyable to fly otherwise...

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