Announcement

Collapse

PMDG Forum Rules

1) SIGN YOUR POSTS. Since 1997, we have asked users to sign their real name, first and last, to all posts in the PMDG forum. We do this in order to keep conversations personal and familiar. You took the time to be here, we want to get to know you. This is one of the few rigid rules that we enforce regularly. We do so because we feel that forums in which users must engage one another personally are generally warmer, more collegial and friendly. Posts that are unsigned will be quietly removed without comment by the moderators, so to make your life easy- we recommend enabling your forum signature so that you never need to remember. Do this by clicking the username pull-down at the top right, then selecting "User Settings." You will find the signature editor on the ACCOUNT tab, about half way down the page. Look for "Edit Post Signature." Be sure to click the "Show Signatures" box.

2) BE NICE. We are all simmers here and no matter our differences of opinion, we share a common love of aviation, computing and simulation. Treat everyone else in the forum with respect even when you disagree. If someone frustrates you, walk away from the conversation or ask for a moderator to get involved. Speaking of Moderators, they prefer not to be treated as "The Thought Police" but if any behavior infringes on the enjoyment of another user or is otherwise considered to be unacceptable in the moderator's judgment, it will be addressed in keeping with our view of ensuring that this forum remains a healthy environment for all simmers.

3) BE LAWFUL: Any behavior that infringes upon the law, such as discussion or solicitation of piracy, threats, intimidation or abuse will be handled unsympathetically by the moderators. Threats and intimidation may, at the moderator's discretion, be provided to law enforcement for handling.

4) BE FACTUAL: When you post, always be factual. Moderators will remove posts that are determined not to be factually accurate.

5) RESPECT COPYRIGHTS: Posting of copyrighted material such as flight manuals owned by Boeing or various airlines is not allowed in this forum. If you have questions related to copyrighted material, please contact a forum moderator for clarification.

6) RESPECT PMDG: We love to hear what you like about our products. We also like to hear what you think can be improved, or what isn't working. Please do tell us and we will always treat your feedback with value. Just be sure to treat the team respectfully, as they do put a significant amount of effort into building and maintaining these great simulation products for you.

7) RESPECT PMDG DEVELOPERS: All of the developers will spend some time here. Given the ratio of developers-to-users, it simply isn't possible for us to answer every post and private message individually. Please know that we do try to read everything, but developer workload is simply too high to manage personal contact with tens-of-thousands of users simultaneously. In most cases, members of the development team will stick to conversations in the forum and will not answer private messages.

8) RESPECT OTHER DEVELOPERS: PMDG has always advocated for a strong development community and we have many friends within this community. Every developer offers something unique that helps to make the simming community larger and more vibrant. We insist that you treat our friends respectfully.

9) RESPECT MODERATORS: Moderators have a tough job, and none of them enjoy having to stomp out negativity. If a moderator has to weigh in to keep a thread peaceful, please respect that effort and refrain from giving the moderator any grief.

10) If you require official support for any of our products please open a support ticket through the support portal, https://support.precisionmanuals.com

11) This forum is designed primarily as a vehicle for the PMDG development team to interact with our customers, and for customers to interact with one another in a manner that is positive, supportive and assists in the general advancement of understanding the simulation and helping to make this and future simulations better. Any other use of this forum is not permitted, including but not limited to discussion of pricing policies, business practices, forum moderating policies, advertising of non-PMDG products, promotion of events, services or products that are not approved in advance by PMDG or any other topic deemed unacceptable by any forum administrator

12) HAVE FUN: This is the whole point of it all.
See more
See less

IAN RNAV RNP Approach

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    IAN RNAV RNP Approach

    Hello

    Can you use IAN with a RNAV RNP approach ? For example, YBBN RNAV RNP 01R.

    I ask this as when I do attempt to fly this approach with IAN the aircraft overshoots the FAF at a higher altitude than the deviation pointers for IAN indicate.

    Thanks, WilloW

    You do not have permission to view this gallery.
    This gallery has 1 photos.
    W. Z. Harris

    #2
    Originally posted by WilloW View Post
    Can you use IAN with a RNAV RNP approach
    Not really. Ian should be used for for straight approaches.

    Also ngx and all pmdg aircrafts utilizing current lnav logic are not "certified" to do this approach.
    For now I would recommend flying in lnav vnav only.
    Matthew Chalupniczak

    Comment


      #3
      Thanks Matthew,

      I am aware of the straight-in guideline for IAN approaches.

      What confused me is in the FCTM it states RNAV is suitable for IAN. Yet, most RNAV approaches these days are also RNP and these are often not straight-in.

      Do you know if these approaches can be done in the real aircraft (using IAN) ?

      Thanks, WilloW
      Last edited by WilloW; 17Apr2021, 12:53.
      W. Z. Harris

      Comment


        #4
        RNP approaches are straight-ins, approach you have choosen on the other hand is RNP AR (Authorization Required) meaning it does utilize radius to fix* function which not every aircraft is capable of hence auth required.

        Yes, real 737s are capable of flying this approach given that they have necessery equipment, certificates and local CAA approval [edit]: obviously in lnav vnav only, IAN is a customer option and not many operators have this function.
        PMDG is currently devloping the new lnav system which hopefully allow us to fly AR approaches. As of now AR aproaches (in pmdg) consist of fake waypoints placed along the arc to immitate the path. That's not how it works on real 737.
        Cheers,

        *Here you can find other functions (slide 12) https://www.icao.int/safety/pbn/Semi...202007/D.3.pdf
        Last edited by Dzosef; 14Apr2021, 13:07.
        Matthew Chalupniczak

        Comment


          #5
          Perfect answer. Thank you.

          You mention that the approach I have chosen is an AR approach.

          How do you know this ? There is nothing mentioned on the plate other than RNP.

          Cheers, WilloW
          Last edited by WilloW; 14Apr2021, 13:13.
          W. Z. Harris

          Comment


            #6
            Hi Willo,

            it is on the chart. Check the box below the briefing strip. Also the chart should be listed as "RNAV AR" or "RNP AR".

            The NGXu is currently not able to fly any procedure that requires radius to fix (RF).

            My airline does not have IAN, so we fly all approaches in LNAV/VNAV. I wouldn't see anything precluding you from doing the same in the NGXu.
            However, LNAV/VNAV or IAN, in either case it will not be able to fly RF Legs, therefore it will not be possible for you to fly the procedure charted above.
            Last edited by Emi; 14Apr2021, 13:24.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Emi View Post
              Hi Willo,

              it is on the chart. Check the box below the briefing strip. Also the chart should be listed as "RNAV AR" or "RNP AR".

              The NGXu is currently not able to fly any procedure that requires radius to fix (RF).

              My airline does not have IAN, so we fly all approaches in LNAV/VNAV. I wouldn't see anything precluding you from doing the same in the NGXu.
              However, LNAV/VNAV or IAN, in either case it will not be able to fly RF Legs, therefore it will not be possible for you to fly the procedure charted above.
              Hi Emi

              Ah yes I see it now. Many thanks, WilloW
              W. Z. Harris

              Comment


                #8
                Just to clarify since you posted in the NGX forum. PMDG has stopped development for the NGX, so the NGX won't get any updates. They will continue to update the NGXu.
                Captain Kevin

                Kevin Yang

                Comment


                  #9
                  Hello again

                  Since my initial post I have read further.

                  I would like some clarification in understanding RNAV (RNP) approaches (real aircraft).

                  It appears that RNAV approaches are more or less straight-in and IAN compatible.

                  RNAV (RNP) approaches seem to be mostly radius to fix type approaches and these approaches are marked AR in the plate identifier. These can only be flown using LNAV/VNAV

                  What about the RNAV (RNP) approaches that are not marked AR. These approaches are often not straight-in. Can these be used with IAN (in the real aircraft) ? I have attached a chart for reference that shows a RNAV (RNP) approach that is not AR

                  Thanks for your time answering, WilloW
                  You do not have permission to view this gallery.
                  This gallery has 1 photos.
                  W. Z. Harris

                  Comment


                    #10
                    There are many RNAV (RNP) approaches that are not AR which the aircraft can fly totally fine.
                    I can't comment on IAN since my fleet doesn't have it.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Thanks Emi, WilloW
                      W. Z. Harris

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Out of curiosity, why are you so eager to fly the approach in IAN in the sim? To try it out? In our version of the aircraft we don‘t have any real advantage flying in IAN. RNAV (LNAV/VNAV) has the same minimums, same procedures and only slightly different indications but other than RNAV an IAN approach pretends to be a precision approach (with the ability to autoland) while it is not. You still have to continue visually and manually and the only real difference is that you‘re able to set the missed approach altitude in the MCP earlier as a single pilot. I always felt IAN is a bad feature in the Boeings. It looks like an ILS but won‘t autoland and many people fell for it. The APPR button is tempting but it often leads to false expectations and afaik there is no warning that you’ll hit the runway at 700fpm and 60% N1 except the FMA readout.
                        i7-6700k, GTX 1080TI, 32GB DDR4 RAM @2666MHz, 4k
                        Marc Ehnle

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Ephedrin View Post
                          Out of curiosity, why are you so eager to fly the approach in IAN in the sim? To try it out? In our version of the aircraft we don‘t have any real advantage flying in IAN. RNAV (LNAV/VNAV) has the same minimums, same procedures and only slightly different indications but other than RNAV an IAN approach pretends to be a precision approach (with the ability to autoland) while it is not. You still have to continue visually and manually and the only real difference is that you‘re able to set the missed approach altitude in the MCP earlier as a single pilot. I always felt IAN is a bad feature in the Boeings. It looks like an ILS but won‘t autoland and many people fell for it. The APPR button is tempting but it often leads to false expectations and afaik there is no warning that you’ll hit the runway at 700fpm and 60% N1 except the FMA readout.
                          Hello Marc

                          To answer your question: I enjoy learning and when I examine something I try to understand as much as possible.

                          It's not so much IAN is better or worse. It's an approach type that is available, so I am keen to learn as much as possible about it. Regards, WilloW
                          Last edited by WilloW; 16Apr2021, 12:18.
                          W. Z. Harris

                          Comment


                          • Ephedrin
                            Ephedrin commented
                            Editing a comment
                            I see 👍

                            ...

                          #14
                          Originally posted by WilloW View Post
                          What about the RNAV (RNP) approaches that are not marked AR. These approaches are often not straight-in. Can these be used with IAN (in the real aircraft) ? I have attached a chart for reference that shows a RNAV (RNP) approach that is not AR
                          The approach you have linked is an AR approach. The problem here is that naming conventions for RNAV approaches worldwide are a complete and utter mess.

                          There is a slow transition toward a standard which is to stop using the term “RNAV” and instead all RNAV approaches will be titled “RNP” (because this is a more generic term and even if the RNP for a particular approach is >0.3 there is still an RNP requirement!).

                          However in the meantime there are many different ways of titling these approaches...

                          In a lot of jurisdictions “RNAV (RNP)” means RNP (AR). On this particular chart this is clarified by the text under the briefing strip “CASA approved operators only” - this is the “A” which is “R’d”. CASA (along with many other authorities), it would appear, use “RNAV (GNSS)” for non-AR RNAV approaches.

                          In summary, the following naming conventions are a good guide.

                          Non-AR:
                          RNAV (GPS) Rwy xx
                          RNAV (GNSS) Rwy xx
                          RNP Rwy xx

                          AR:
                          RNAV (RNP) Rwy xx
                          RNAV (RNP AR) Rwy xx
                          RNP Rwy xx (AR)
                          Simon Kelsey

                          Comment


                            #15
                            Hello Simon

                            Thank you for your informative reply which explains the 'why' behind many of the RNAV approaches.

                            Cheers, WilloW
                            W. Z. Harris

                            Comment

                            Working...
                            X