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737 NG3

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    737 NG3

    Really hoping as PMDG is in development of the NG3 that with the 737-900ER we'll have seating for 179-185.. Seeing United 737-900ER goes upto 179 pax total with 20 First Class seats... Also hoping they figure in each bag to weigh atleast 35 lbs each when figuring weight and balance of the aircraft. Cause currently real world.. Domestic bags are figured at 30 lbs, gate checks 25 -35 lbs and International bags at 50 lbs to start.. Just putting that out there..

    #2
    Please note forum rules require us to sign our full names on all posts.

    PMDG has never been too concerned with getting the number of seats exact, basically because the only thing than matters to the pilot is the ZFW. Every airline is different and these things change over time. Afterall, the NG3 is going to be a flight simulation not a dispatcher tool.
    Dan Downs KCRP

    Comment


      #3
      Honestly, based on how hyper-focused people tend to get about this - in my opinion - entirely worthless bit, I would advocate dropping the pax count function entirely.

      Set ZFW - weight is weight.
      Kyle Rodgers
      PMDG Simulations

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by krodgers View Post
        Honestly, based on how hyper-focused people tend to get about this - in my opinion - entirely worthless bit, I would advocate dropping the pax count function entirely.

        Set ZFW - weight is weight.
        Weight is weight. But you always need to know how many souls are on board! Due to emergencies if you simulate that. Also zones should be include
        zone 1: full plane
        Zone two: fwd half pax aft half pax
        zone 3: first 6 rows of pax, middle 6 rows of pax, and last 6 rows of pax all for CG

        Now weight is weight for the cargo bins
        Alex Kulak
        PMDG Studier and flyer
        Ramp Agent @PHX

        Comment


        • DDowns
          DDowns commented
          Editing a comment
          True, souls on board and fuel are required by ATC in an emergency declaration. We are not simulating ATC.

        #5
        Originally posted by Swaluver88 View Post

        Weight is weight. But you always need to know how many souls are on board! Due to emergencies if you simulate that. Also zones should be include
        zone 1: full plane
        Zone two: fwd half pax aft half pax
        zone 3: first 6 rows of pax, middle 6 rows of pax, and last 6 rows of pax all for CG

        Now weight is weight for the cargo bins
        So look at the load sheet you used to get you the ZFW. I'm assuming anyone who is wanting to get specific zone loads is using some sort of dispatch tool that would break all of that down.

        SimBiref, for example, lists the counts, and cargo weights, while still providing the ZFW.
        Kyle Rodgers
        PMDG Simulations

        Comment


          #6
          Originally posted by krodgers View Post

          So look at the load sheet you used to get you the ZFW. I'm assuming anyone who is wanting to get specific zone loads is using some sort of dispatch tool that would break all of that down.

          SimBiref, for example, lists the counts, and cargo weights, while still providing the ZFW.
          Yeah southwest uses OTIS which breaks down the zones weights and how many bags and the weights. And then send the ATOG over to the plane for weights. It will.give an alert if the plane is over ATOG or under ATOG. But every system is different
          Alex Kulak
          PMDG Studier and flyer
          Ramp Agent @PHX

          Comment


            #7
            Standard works for just zfw
            Alex Kulak
            PMDG Studier and flyer
            Ramp Agent @PHX

            Comment


              #8
              And I’m amazed how hyper focused people get about the slightest details in a simulation.
              Danny Z. Cebis

              Comment


              • Swaluver88
                Swaluver88 commented
                Editing a comment
                Except xplane users. Theyre just in it for the eye candy

              #9
              Originally posted by UnitedBill36 View Post
              Really hoping as PMDG is in development of the NG3 that with the 737-900ER we'll have seating for 179-185.. Seeing United 737-900ER goes upto 179 pax total with 20 First Class seats... Also hoping they figure in each bag to weigh atleast 35 lbs each when figuring weight and balance of the aircraft. Cause currently real world.. Domestic bags are figured at 30 lbs, gate checks 25 -35 lbs and International bags at 50 lbs to start.. Just putting that out there..
              that depth of simulation is totally pointless... Weight is weight.
              Michael Backes
              ----------------------

              Comment


                #10
                But pax distribution would affect the CG, so we can't just get rid of it.
                Angelo Busato

                Comment


                  #11
                  We still don't know weather it will be NG or MAX series so we need to stay tuned for new update from R&R
                  STEFAN ĐORĐEVIĆ

                  Comment


                    #12
                    Originally posted by killairbus View Post
                    But pax distribution would affect the CG, so we can't just get rid of it.
                    True, I also wonder if weight is weight and you guys said just ZFW is needed, how can CG is calculated ? randomly ?
                    Khoa Nguyen

                    Comment


                      #13
                      Originally posted by killairbus View Post
                      But pax distribution would affect the CG, so we can't just get rid of it.
                      Thats exactly correct!
                      Alex Kulak
                      PMDG Studier and flyer
                      Ramp Agent @PHX

                      Comment


                        #14
                        A randomly assigned CG would (and, I suspect, does) work just fine.

                        I'm with Kyle here... this isn't a dispatch or load planning simulation, right? It's intended to simulate the flying of an airliner.

                        Line pilots have absolutely nothing to do with weight and balance at this level of the industry. Those numbers are calculated for us and sent to us before departure. At my company, a division called CLP (central load planning) does this, and the numbers are transmitted to us via ACARS before we push, and the relevant fields in the perf init pages of the FMC are auto-populated (ZFW, CG etc). Thus, the PMDG method of having these values autofill in the perf pages works very well.

                        I'm sure you can find the Boeing performance handbooks online if you'd like to calculate this yourself.. but be aware that at that point, you're simulating engineering and not aviation. I have the PH volumes on my company-issued ipad, and I can tell you how many times I've opened them without using any fingers at all...
                        Andrew Crowley

                        Comment


                          #15
                          Don't dismiss the whole weight and balance matter too prematurely. It is instructive to see the effects of how the airplane is loaded on flight stability and fuel efficiency. A more rearward CG will make stall recovery progressively more difficult (harder to get the nose down), while a more forward CG may make it difficult to get the nose up during the flare. That said, I am more than satisfied with the loading options we have right now. The Majestic Q400 loadmanager will give you more options how you load the airplane, which may facilitate curiosity and learning. The important thing is to understand the meaning of the numbers provided as much as possible.
                          Regards,
                          Marius

                          Comment


                            #16
                            Originally posted by StachM View Post
                            Don't dismiss the whole weight and balance matter too prematurely. It is instructive to see the effects of how the airplane is loaded on flight stability and fuel efficiency. A more rearward CG will make stall recovery progressively more difficult (harder to get the nose down), while a more forward CG may make it difficult to get the nose up during the flare. That said, I am more than satisfied with the loading options we have right now. The Majestic Q400 loadmanager will give you more options how you load the airplane, which may facilitate curiosity and learning. The important thing is to understand the meaning of the numbers provided as much as possible.
                            That's all true, but how much of it is simulated by the FDE of a desktop simulator anyway? Considering that even level D sims didn't accurately model some of these regimes of the flight envelope accurately until a year ago... I'm guessing not very much.

                            Adjusting drag scalars to alter fuel burn with cg is probably easy enough, but also pretty meaningless at the stage lengths 737s typically fly. And when it comes to actual control feel, well... there isn't any in a desktop sim anyway, just a rough approximation.

                            Andrew Crowley

                            Comment


                              #17
                              When will the NG3 NDA be lifted? Or didn't it enter BETA yet?

                              edit: Didn't I have autosignature on?
                              Last edited by Thannyd; 30Apr2019, 23:48. Reason: Auto signature appeared
                              Greetz!
                              Thanny Davelaar - Proud owner of PMDG NGX, 777, 747

                              Comment


                                #18
                                If I am not mistaken, someone from the dev team need to confirm that, the weight is auto distributed so the CG is always inside the correct limits. So if you put 10 passengers in business and 55 in economy and XXX and YYY in the holds this will be distributed in such way that the CG will be always inside the limits
                                Chris Makris (Olympic260)
                                PMDG Technical Support
                                http://www.pmdg.com

                                Comment


                                  #19
                                  Originally posted by cmakris View Post
                                  If I am not mistaken, someone from the dev team need to confirm that, the weight is auto distributed so the CG is always inside the correct limits. So if you put 10 passengers in business and 55 in economy and XXX and YYY in the holds this will be distributed in such way that the CG will be always inside the limits
                                  So thats where it would be cool to have a selection for all the aircraft so you have re arrange and etc because every A/C is different with MEL and etc
                                  Alex Kulak
                                  PMDG Studier and flyer
                                  Ramp Agent @PHX

                                  Comment


                                    #20
                                    Originally posted by Ausflight View Post
                                    And I’m amazed how hyper focused people get about the slightest details in a simulation.
                                    But it’s not just users who are hyper-focused on these details... it’s PMDG’s competitors, too. Maybe they should look at the market before dismissing “small” things like this. PMDG has already fallen behind a few areas I can think of.
                                    Alex Pugh

                                    Comment


                                    • Ausflight
                                      Ausflight commented
                                      Editing a comment
                                      As far as i can remember PMDG has always been on the ball right down to the smallest details and also were on PMDG forum no one cares about what the competitors have or haven’t got.

                                    #21
                                    Originally posted by AirBadger View Post
                                    PMDG has already fallen behind a few areas I can think of.
                                    Interested to hear your thoughts.

                                    -----

                                    Also: people can manually set a CG by altering the distribution of the passengers and/or (probably easier) cargo. Setting a ZFW will set the CG within limits, with variation between the limits.
                                    Kyle Rodgers
                                    PMDG Simulations

                                    Comment


                                      #22
                                      Originally posted by Thannyd View Post
                                      When will the NG3 NDA be lifted? Or didn't it enter BETA yet?

                                      edit: Didn't I have autosignature on?
                                      It's in BETA
                                      Jordan Collins

                                      Comment


                                        #23
                                        Originally posted by fakeflyer737 View Post

                                        It's in BETA
                                        I would love to know your source since the plane is definitely NOT in beta yet
                                        Chris Makris (Olympic260)
                                        PMDG Technical Support
                                        http://www.pmdg.com

                                        Comment


                                        • killairbus
                                          killairbus commented
                                          Editing a comment
                                          So pre-Beta?

                                        #24
                                        Originally posted by cmakris View Post

                                        I would love to know your source since the plane is definitely NOT in beta yet
                                        Well at one point, Wikipedia did say PMDG was developing a 787, soooo....
                                        Kyle Weber

                                        Comment


                                          #25
                                          Originally posted by CaptKornDog View Post

                                          Well at one point, Wikipedia did say PMDG was developing a 787, soooo....
                                          I wouldn't be surprised if I see there that we also doing an A380
                                          Chris Makris (Olympic260)
                                          PMDG Technical Support
                                          http://www.pmdg.com

                                          Comment


                                          • Ausflight
                                            Ausflight commented
                                            Editing a comment
                                            No buses on PMDG Chris please don’t even mention it.😁

                                          • killairbus
                                            killairbus commented
                                            Editing a comment
                                            Despite my username, a PMDG A320 somewhere down the line would be amazing.

                                          #26
                                          Originally posted by cmakris View Post

                                          I would love to know your source since the plane is definitely NOT in beta yet
                                          Thank you for answering his question.
                                          Jordan Collins

                                          Comment


                                            #27
                                            Originally posted by krodgers View Post

                                            Interested to hear your thoughts.
                                            Off the top of my head... dynamic cockpit lighting, GSX integration, icing simulation, better LNAV/route drawing (I know it’s coming, but still), sound details (e.g. on a certain A320 you can hear the exhaust of the avionics cooling)
                                            Alex Pugh

                                            Comment


                                              #28
                                              Originally posted by AirBadger View Post

                                              Off the top of my head... dynamic cockpit lighting, GSX integration, icing simulation, better LNAV/route drawing (I know it’s coming, but still), sound details (e.g. on a certain A320 you can hear the exhaust of the avionics cooling)
                                              You can hear the exhaust on the apu and also the cooldown on all the pmdg planes. Now a sound i havent heard and i would love to hear is a more cabin sound. Where in certain views yiu get certain sounds. Aka on the max in the back rows its loud and equal to flying a 737700 and 800. But you sit anywhere else its quiet as can be. Same with the 700 and 800. Guess my point is to introduce dynamic cabin sounds in cabin view if the platform lets such a thing to be done without a standard engine sound
                                              Alex Kulak
                                              PMDG Studier and flyer
                                              Ramp Agent @PHX

                                              Comment


                                                #29

                                                Will the NG3 be only for P3D? I'm still with FSX. I'm still not sure whether to switch to P3D or XPLANE. If the NG3 were only available for P3D I would start upgrading to it, otherwise I would buy it initially for FSX (I can't wait) and then later for X-PLANE (money well spent)
                                                Attilio Cardone

                                                Comment


                                                  #30
                                                  Originally posted by lh777 View Post
                                                  Will the NG3 be only for P3D? I'm still with FSX. I'm still not sure whether to switch to P3D or XPLANE. If the NG3 were only available for P3D I would start upgrading to it, otherwise I would buy it initially for FSX (I can't wait) and then later for X-PLANE (money well spent)
                                                  NG3 P3D only so start upgrading.
                                                  Danny Z. Cebis

                                                  Comment

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