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Will not intercept Glide Slope

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    Will not intercept Glide Slope

    For some reason now the NGX will not intercept the GS but the LOC is fine. Tried multiple ILS's. It has always worked. Any ideas?

    Chris Chiozza
    Chris Chiozza
    B737 NGX
    B747 QOTSII
    B777

    #2
    Originally posted by cchiozza View Post
    For some reason now the NGX will not intercept the GS but the LOC is fine. Tried multiple ILS's. It has always worked. Any ideas?
    What does the FMA (flight mode annunciator - top of the PFD) say? Additionally, are you sure you're at an airport with an ILS in the sim? When FSX was released, Leesburg (JYO) only had a LOC approach. Looking at the nav data for the airport now, it will offer an ILS, but unless you add the ILS in the sim, the NGX obviously wouldn't track it. Are you approaching the GS from above or below?

    EDIT/NOTE: The NGX hasn't been updated in quite some time, so if something "changed" then it's going to be something you've changed in your sim, or - most likely - human error of some sort. It's an uncomfortable thought, perhaps, but it's the usual culprit. If the code didn't change, but the behavior changed, it's most likely the human operating the code causing the issue.
    Kyle Rodgers
    PMDG Simulations

    Comment


      #3
      I think we need more details from you before we can answer that. What ILS? What exactly is your procedure etc. I still encounter some wtf moments like these some times, even after years of flying the NGX, and 100% of the time it has been me who forgot some crucial step, not the sim being broken.
      Last edited by AndreH; 17Apr2019, 15:48.
      André Hansson

      Comment


        #4
        I am approaching from below into KABQ (08). When I click APP I get ILS freq. top left in white.

        Chris Chiozza
        Chris Chiozza
        B737 NGX
        B747 QOTSII
        B777

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by cchiozza View Post
          I am approaching from below into KABQ (08). When I click APP I get ILS freq. top left in white.

          Chris Chiozza
          Have you chosen the right approach in the FMC? There are 2 RNAV approaches and a VOR as well - make sure you haven't chosen them instead
          Have you dialed in the right ILS frequency and course. 111.9 and 079 acc. to navigraph's charts
          Are you intercepting at the right altitude? 6300' at GZELL - if you're high the aircraft might not intercept
          André Hansson

          Comment


            #6
            I will verify this as well but pretty sure I have chosen the right one. I am using Avlisoft EFB and they were matching up correctly with the FMC. 111.9 is showing in the PFD. Is there another place to enter the ILS? Thanks for your help.

            Chris Chiozza
            Chris Chiozza
            B737 NGX
            B747 QOTSII
            B777

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by cchiozza View Post
              I will verify this as well but pretty sure I have chosen the right one. I am using Avlisoft EFB and they were matching up correctly with the FMC. 111.9 is showing in the PFD. Is there another place to enter the ILS? Thanks for your help.

              Chris Chiozza
              I've never heard of that software. My suggestion would be to try to dial everything in manually directly into the MCP and radio and see if you have the same problem.
              André Hansson

              Comment


                #8
                Just flew it. It worked for me. The only thing I can think of would be the scenery not having and ILS, and instead having a LOC, or that you're above the GS.
                Kyle Rodgers
                PMDG Simulations

                Comment


                  #9
                  The EFB is just reference. http://aivlasoft.com/ I am using all 3 of the Orbx products, global base, vector and open lc, not sure if that would make a difference. The other weird thing is if there was not am ILS why would I get the Carrot on the right side of the PFD?
                  Last edited by cchiozza; 17Apr2019, 19:19.
                  Chris Chiozza
                  B737 NGX
                  B747 QOTSII
                  B777

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by cchiozza View Post
                    I am approaching from below into KABQ (08). When I click APP I get ILS freq. top left in white.

                    Chris Chiozza
                    Chris, you were asked for what was the FMA indicating. That is the three part bar above the PFD that indicates thrust, roll and pitch modes. You should see LOC and GS in small white letters if the APP is properly armed.
                    Dan Downs KCRP

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I will recreate the approach as soon as I get a chance and report back. Chris Chiozza
                      Chris Chiozza
                      B737 NGX
                      B747 QOTSII
                      B777

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Here are screen shots ABQ (08)
                        Chris Chiozza
                        B737 NGX
                        B747 QOTSII
                        B777

                        Comment


                          #13
                          The FMA states FAC and GP. That means you likely tried to hit APP before the aircraft had the ILS raw data (the LOC and GS signal), and it kicked over into IAN mode.
                          Kyle Rodgers
                          PMDG Simulations

                          Comment


                            #14
                            ^ When the pink diamond appears for the localizer, hit the VOR LOC button on the MCP. Once the FMA annunciates LOC and the pink diamond appears for the glideslope, only then should you hit APP in the MCP.
                            James Ward

                            Comment


                              #15
                              It was due to the fact I was pressing APP before reaching GS. Thanks for the help!

                              Chris Chiozza
                              Chris Chiozza
                              B737 NGX
                              B747 QOTSII
                              B777

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Originally posted by cchiozza View Post
                                It was due to the fact I was pressing APP before reaching GS. Thanks for the help!

                                Chris Chiozza
                                To muddy the waters further ...

                                There's nothing wrong with arming APP without first using Vor/Loc. That's actually normal. You'd only use Vor/Loc on an approach if the procedure did not have a glideslope (VOR or localizer-only approach), or on an ILS if you were instructed to join the localizer but weren't yet cleared for an approach.

                                In the typical situation of being vectored onto an intercept heading and then cleared for the ILS, just arm APP - there's no reason to use VOR/LOC first. The localizer will capture when intercepted, and then the glideslope will capture when intercepted.

                                What happened in your case that led to the FAC and G/P modes instead of LOC and G/S is a sim-ism and not realistic. (Note that it's the fault of the underlying sim and not PMDG.) An ILS in the sim cannot be received at anywhere near the same range it can in real life. PMDG has modeled a flight guidance mode called IAN that not all 73s have for real, but it's operated by arming the APP mode while not receiving a localizer. In your case, you were too far out to be receiving the ILS yet (in the sim, in real life you'd have been fine), so when you armed APP it armed IAN mode.

                                It's also possible that the ILS for that runway wasn't active in the sim. I've had this problem while trying to land with a slight tailwind to a runway that has ILSs both ways that share the localizer freq. That's not applicable to ABQ 08 though. But anyway, your clue is that white FMS above the upper left corner of the altitude indicator; that indicates the source of the data being presented by the diamond pointers on the LOC and GS scales. It says FMS because the data is coming from the FMS for an IAN approach. You want those white letters to say ILS before you arm APP.

                                Hope this makes sense. TL;DR - don't arm APP mode until receiving a localizer. But then go ahead and arm APP; no need to go through VOR/LOC mode first.
                                Last edited by Stearmandriver; 18Apr2019, 07:12.
                                Andrew Crowley

                                Comment


                                • MattSweet
                                  MattSweet commented
                                  Editing a comment
                                  Excellent explanation

                                #17
                                Originally posted by cchiozza View Post
                                Here are screen shots ABQ (08)
                                Ahhh....I should've known. This has happened to me many times precisely for the reason Stearmandriver mentioned. I usually arm APP just shortly before the last procedure turn or about DME12-14 out to avoid this.
                                Last edited by AndreH; 18Apr2019, 15:16.
                                André Hansson

                                Comment


                                  #18
                                  That makes sense, I was wondering why when I did press APP I had no problem with the localizer coming alive and not using LOC button. Great info! Thanks very much for everyone help!

                                  Chris Chiozza
                                  Chris Chiozza
                                  B737 NGX
                                  B747 QOTSII
                                  B777

                                  Comment

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