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RNAV approach issue into KJFK

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    #1

    RNAV approach issue into KJFK

    Hello all!
    I am experiencing a strange RNAV approach issue and was seeing if anyone knew what may be going on. Its happened on all occasions when approaching 04R at KJFK. I selected the LENDY8 KJFK 04R and noticed when on final, the DME was off, showing 10.8 miles but to ILGA, which I am guessing it is seeing KLGA approach? As you can see I was over the threshhold almost for KJFK 04R...I set up for an ILS approach instead and that went fine..Anyone else seen this? I am using Navigraph and its all up to date..

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    Jon Richardson
    USAF Vet
    PPL
    Tags: None
    #2
    Originally posted by Vegasjon View Post
    Hello all!
    I am experiencing a strange RNAV approach issue and was seeing if anyone knew what may be going on. Its happened on all occasions when approaching 04R at KJFK. I selected the LENDY8 KJFK 04R and noticed when on final, the DME was off, showing 10.8 miles but to ILGA, which I am guessing it is seeing KLGA approach? As you can see I was over the threshhold almost for KJFK 04R...I set up for an ILS approach instead and that went fine..Anyone else seen this? I am using Navigraph and its all up to date..
    Hi Jon, there are a couple of issues going on here. Looking at your FMA it appears you armed APP while having ILGA tuned on NAV1, so of course the AFDS thinks you want to fly that ILS. The procedure to shoot a RNAV approach does not required you to arm APP, just fly the approach using LNAV/VNAV to the missed approach point. Dial the MCP ALT down to at or below the DA/DH or MAP. Arming the APP for a non precision approach in the 737 puts the AFDS in IAN mode. You can look that up if you are interested, but I do not like and do not use IAN. There's really no advantage other than having about the same procedure as an ILS.
    Dan Downs KCRP
    i7-10700K 32GB 3600MHz 3080Ti
    • 👍 1

    Comment

      #3
      Agree with Dan. One additional thing to remember is that the 737 does not auto tune nav radios. Just because you've selected the JFK 04R procedure in the FMC, that doesn't mean your nav radio was tuned to anything. If you didn't manually tune your nav radios to the JFK ILS 04R, they're tuned to whatever they were before - in the case, probably ILGA.

      If you then select approach, it won't work in IAN mode. But like Dan said, you're better off not selecting approach for a non-precision approach in the first place; most 737s don't have IAN and it's a more limited way to fly approaches anyway. You're better off in LNAV/VNAV.
      Andrew Crowley

      Comment

        #4
        Hmm..Ok, I think what I misunderstood is that the RNAV does not need the APP selected, correct? Is that slaved to the ILS freqs? I only tune those when doing an ILS appr.
        Jon Richardson
        USAF Vet
        PPL

        Comment

          #5
          Originally posted by Vegasjon View Post
          Hmm..Ok, I think what I misunderstood is that the RNAV does not need the APP selected, correct? Is that slaved to the ILS freqs? I only tune those when doing an ILS appr.
          RNAV should not have APP armed unless you want to use IAN, and I don't know why you'd want to do that. You were tuned to a nearby ILS at LGA... so yes, when you arm APP and if there is an active LOC and GS signal then that is what the A/P will follow. You may not have intended to use the LGA ILS but that is what the FMA and PFD displays were telling you.
          Dan Downs KCRP
          i7-10700K 32GB 3600MHz 3080Ti

          Comment

            #6
            https://youtu.be/scjMcQInR8U
            Bob Cardone

            Comment

              #7
              Thanks for the info all!
              Jon Richardson
              USAF Vet
              PPL

              Comment

                #8
                IAN is perfectly acceptable and actually very useful if set up correctly (arming APP when on an RNAV approach). The first thing that must be done is de-tune the NAV radios (set to 108.00 or 109.00) to make sure you will not receive additional guidance outside of the RNAV/LNAV (such as an ILS or a VOR radial). I, for one, almost always fly the RNAV approaches as an IAN because I like the FAC/GP aspect, especially in bad weather (or anytime I am using the HUD).
                Mark "Crabby" Crabtree AAL311 | PHL
                I7-9700KF | 2070 Super | Honeycomb Alpha/Bravo | MFG Crosswind

                Comment

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Crabby View Post
                  IAN is perfectly acceptable and actually very useful if set up correctly (arming APP when on an RNAV approach). The first thing that must be done is de-tune the NAV radios (set to 108.00 or 109.00) to make sure you will not receive additional guidance outside of the RNAV/LNAV (such as an ILS or a VOR radial). I, for one, almost always fly the RNAV approaches as an IAN because I like the FAC/GP aspect, especially in bad weather (or anytime I am using the HUD).
                  The FAC/GP presentation is no more precise than LNAV/VNAV, plus there are severe limitations to the PMDG implementation such that IAN can only be used on an extended runway centerline and does not correctly calculate the glide path from FAF to MAP, and then it only has a default 3.00 slope. All things considered LNAV/VNAV is preferred by most airlines today.
                  Dan Downs KCRP
                  i7-10700K 32GB 3600MHz 3080Ti

                  Comment

                  • Crabby
                    #9.1
                    Crabby commented
                    26Feb2023, 18:54
                    Editing a comment
                    Hmm. I will give it a try. I always open to trying different things.
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