Announcement

Collapse

PMDG Forum Rules

1) SIGN YOUR POSTS. Since 1997, we have asked users to sign their real name, first and last, to all posts in the PMDG forum. We do this in order to keep conversations personal and familiar. You took the time to be here, we want to get to know you. This is one of the few rigid rules that we enforce regularly. We do so because we feel that forums in which users must engage one another personally are generally warmer, more collegial and friendly. Posts that are unsigned will be quietly removed without comment by the moderators, so to make your life easy- we recommend enabling your forum signature so that you never need to remember. Do this by clicking the username pull-down at the top right, then selecting "User Settings." You will find the signature editor on the ACCOUNT tab, about half way down the page. Look for "Edit Post Signature." Be sure to click the "Show Signatures" box.

2) BE NICE. We are all simmers here and no matter our differences of opinion, we share a common love of aviation, computing and simulation. Treat everyone else in the forum with respect even when you disagree. If someone frustrates you, walk away from the conversation or ask for a moderator to get involved. Speaking of Moderators, they prefer not to be treated as "The Thought Police" but if any behavior infringes on the enjoyment of another user or is otherwise considered to be unacceptable in the moderator's judgment, it will be addressed in keeping with our view of ensuring that this forum remains a healthy environment for all simmers.

3) BE LAWFUL: Any behavior that infringes upon the law, such as discussion or solicitation of piracy, threats, intimidation or abuse will be handled unsympathetically by the moderators. Threats and intimidation may, at the moderator's discretion, be provided to law enforcement for handling.

4) BE FACTUAL: When you post, always be factual. Moderators will remove posts that are determined not to be factually accurate.

5) RESPECT COPYRIGHTS: Posting of copyrighted material such as flight manuals owned by Boeing or various airlines is not allowed in this forum. If you have questions related to copyrighted material, please contact a forum moderator for clarification.

6) RESPECT PMDG: We love to hear what you like about our products. We also like to hear what you think can be improved, or what isn't working. Please do tell us and we will always treat your feedback with value. Just be sure to treat the team respectfully, as they do put a significant amount of effort into building and maintaining these great simulation products for you.

7) RESPECT PMDG DEVELOPERS: All of the developers will spend some time here. Given the ratio of developers-to-users, it simply isn't possible for us to answer every post and private message individually. Please know that we do try to read everything, but developer workload is simply too high to manage personal contact with tens-of-thousands of users simultaneously. In most cases, members of the development team will stick to conversations in the forum and will not answer private messages.

8) RESPECT OTHER DEVELOPERS: PMDG has always advocated for a strong development community and we have many friends within this community. Every developer offers something unique that helps to make the simming community larger and more vibrant. We insist that you treat our friends respectfully.

9) RESPECT MODERATORS: Moderators have a tough job, and none of them enjoy having to stomp out negativity. If a moderator has to weigh in to keep a thread peaceful, please respect that effort and refrain from giving the moderator any grief.

10) If you require official support for any of our products please open a support ticket through the support portal, https://support.precisionmanuals.com

11) This forum is designed primarily as a vehicle for the PMDG development team to interact with our customers, and for customers to interact with one another in a manner that is positive, supportive and assists in the general advancement of understanding the simulation and helping to make this and future simulations better. Any other use of this forum is not permitted, including but not limited to discussion of pricing policies, business practices, forum moderating policies, advertising of non-PMDG products, promotion of events, services or products that are not approved in advance by PMDG or any other topic deemed unacceptable by any forum administrator

12) HAVE FUN: This is the whole point of it all.
See more
See less

Difference between real and sim (In case anyone wondered)

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Difference between real and sim (In case anyone wondered)

    Yes we did two full manual 3 hour flights that day to bring the part. You could buy a decent house for that money in most places.

    MCP_Price.jpg
    Omar Josef
    737 FO
    757/767 rated
    Spain

    #2
    That is a lot of money. Did the airline get a discount for picking the part up itself rather then getting it shipped
    Joe Colehouse

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by EasternT3 View Post
      That is a lot of money. Did the airline get a discount for picking the part up itself rather then getting it shipped
      Haha. Well we're a large airline so most of the times these parts are our own and refurbished. We have a lot of bases in Europe. Some are manned engineering stations and some aren't. Among the engineering stations some have large stock of parts and some, like the one I'm based in, have engineers but only basic parts. MCPs, CDUs, DUs are very commonly failing parts so it's not rare to have a decent stock of them. There are other things that rarely fail that when they do, they need to buy them from the manufacturer itself and that can take a long time in some cases. The MEL does specify how many days an airplane can fly with an INOP component.

      In this case I believe the airplane was fully operational on regular flights without autopilot for two days (no CATIII and dispatched below RVSM airspace). When I got to fly the airplane we flew to one of our destinations that has a large engineering base so we brought the part with us. Once we got to our homebase, an engineer picked up the part from the cargo hold and installed it. I guess the next morning, the crew who flew the airplane found a note saying "Please conduct an autoland in simulated CATIII conditions".
      Omar Josef
      737 FO
      757/767 rated
      Spain

      Comment


        #4
        Also note the weight by the way. 12kg. Shows you that it's not a cheap plastic part like some of those 10.000$ flight sim hardware pieces, but actually some real parts that can take the beating they get every day.

        Comment


        • mglan80
          mglan80 commented
          Editing a comment
          That is waaay more than I'd have ever guessed that panel would have weighed. How much metal is shoved in there?!?!?!?

        #5
        Oh. Um....ouch. I've flown manual flights in the simulator before (I mean, with all my equipment, why wouldn't I at least try), but I've never done it for that long. I think the longest I've done it was maybe an hour and a half.
        Captain Kevin

        Kevin Yang

        Comment


          #6
          Originally posted by Aeromar View Post
          Yes we did two full manual 3 hour flights that day to bring the part. You could buy a decent house for that money in most places.

          MCP_Price.jpg
          That's like a year's worth of stick time in two flights
          Mike Murphy
          Commercial, Instrument, Rotorcraft-Helicopter

          Comment


            #7
            I assume the two flights were generating revenue; otherwise increase the cost by at least half again.

            When I started flying, we used to go on trips to get a hundred dollar hamburger.... sigh, those days are long gone.
            Dan Downs KCRP
            i7-10700K 32GB 3600MHz 3080Ti

            Comment


              #8
              You have to imagine that the same MCP with non-aeronautical certified components would cost maybe 4,5,6 times less😅
              The smallest hardware or aeronautic parts cost a lot more than any hardware you might find at your local hardware store.​
              Cedrice Rive

              Comment


                #9
                Originally posted by CDrive View Post
                You have to imagine that the same MCP with non-aeronautical certified components would cost maybe 4,5,6 times less😅
                The smallest hardware or aeronautic parts cost a lot more than any hardware you might find at your local hardware store.​
                That is partially true, but unfair. Were the components mass produced then yes the cost would be as you claim. However, any component produced in small batches with stringent testing requirements is going to result in such prices, be it aviation or marine or military.
                Dan Downs KCRP
                i7-10700K 32GB 3600MHz 3080Ti

                Comment


                  #10
                  ...and in the FS community, people are whining about the price of 4090s... 😂
                  Richard Åsberg

                  Comment


                  • Emi
                    Emi commented
                    Editing a comment
                    At the end of the day we all know that 4090 is gonna last a maximum of two years. Just like my 3080Ti which cost some 2000$ when I bought it and now lags already in MSFS.

                  • CDrive
                    CDrive commented
                    Editing a comment
                    GPUs are abnormally expensive for various reasons. But the main one is the semi-conductor crisis.

                  #11
                  Looking at the 4090 specifically, it was a long time since I saw such a big improvement over the previous generation. Using the very same settings, my FPS increased by 20 FPS or so compared to my 3090. Then I gained another 10 FPS when replacing my 129000KS with a 13900K.

                  Expensive but totally worth it when trying to get the best possible experience in VR using the Varjo Aero. What I have right now with this combo of hardware is like a dream come true. Never experienced anything close to this in the 30+ years I've been enjoying this hobby.

                  ​​​​​​
                  ​​
                  Last edited by WebMaximus; 02Nov2022, 20:07.
                  Richard Åsberg

                  Comment


                    #12
                    So Rich - you are running a 13900K CPU with a 4090 card? I mean, how does MSFS look with the PMDG 737??? It must be real-life. $K monitor I assume?
                    Paul Gugliotta
                    13900K CPU - 4090 GPU

                    Comment


                      #13
                      And I can tell you that equipping the aircraft with HGS (HUD) is a 250,000USD option per side.
                      Angelo Cosma

                      Comment


                        #14
                        Originally posted by Paulyg123 View Post
                        So Rich - you are running a 13900K CPU with a 4090 card? I mean, how does MSFS look with the PMDG 737??? It must be real-life. $K monitor I assume?
                        As mentioned in my last post, it's like a dream come true. Earlier today, I flew across the Mediterranean from Barcelona to Zagreb in real time and watching the sun slowly dropping below the horizon behind me, coloring all clouds pink...absolutely spectacular!

                        Being able to experience all this in VR where you are inside the aircraft you're flying and with the visual quality the Varjo Aero offers in combination with the gorgeous textures found in the PMDG 737, that is one of those things which can't be described by words, you need to experience it for yourself.

                        So yes, the $K part was correct but I never fly on a flat screen these days. I spend all my flying time in VR and since I got the Varjo Aero...wow...just wow.

                        Richard Åsberg

                        Comment


                          #15
                          Originally posted by WebMaximus View Post

                          As mentioned in my last post, it's like a dream come true. Earlier today, I flew across the Mediterranean from Barcelona to Zagreb in real time and watching the sun slowly dropping below the horizon behind me, coloring all clouds pink...absolutely spectacular!

                          Being able to experience all this in VR where you are inside the aircraft you're flying and with the visual quality the Varjo Aero offers in combination with the gorgeous textures found in the PMDG 737, that is one of those things which can't be described by words, you need to experience it for yourself.

                          So yes, the $K part was correct but I never fly on a flat screen these days. I spend all my flying time in VR and since I got the Varjo Aero...wow...just wow.
                          I meant 4K screen not $K. What do you mean you don't fly using a flat screen? What displays do you have? So tell me, a 13900K CPU with a 4090 card really gets you near perfection? I am still waiting for the damn 4090 card. People on e-bay are asking $750 over the $1600 price. So I may need a 1 week or 2 until it arrives.
                          Last edited by Paulyg123; 04Nov2022, 15:16.
                          Paul Gugliotta
                          13900K CPU - 4090 GPU

                          Comment


                            #16
                            Originally posted by Paulyg123 View Post
                            I meant 4K screen not $K. What do you mean you don't fly using a flat screen? What displays do you have? So tell me, a 13900K CPU with a 4090 card really gets you near perfection? I am still waiting for the damn 4090 card. People on e-bay are asking $750 over the $1600 price. So I may need a 1 week or 2 until it arrives.
                            He's using VR, so not really using a computer monitor at all. By the way, I contacted Jetline Systems the other day to ask them a technical question, they told me they had one person order a computer that was waiting for a 4090. I'm guessing that was you.
                            Captain Kevin

                            Kevin Yang

                            Comment


                              #17
                              Originally posted by Paulyg123 View Post
                              I meant 4K screen not $K. What do you mean you don't fly using a flat screen? What displays do you have? So tell me, a 13900K CPU with a 4090 card really gets you near perfection? I am still waiting for the damn 4090 card. People on e-bay are asking $750 over the $1600 price. So I may need a 1 week or 2 until it arrives.
                              As Kevin said, the Varjo Aero is a VR headset and yes, to me the 13900K and 4090 is if not perfect very close to it.
                              Richard Åsberg

                              Comment


                              • severniae
                                severniae commented
                                Editing a comment
                                How is the horizontal range on the Aero? I have a Valve Index which has a ~130 degree horizontal FOV, I hear the Aero is less than 100 so sounds a bit like looking down narrow binoculars?

                              #18
                              Originally posted by WebMaximus View Post

                              As Kevin said, the Varjo Aero is a VR headset and yes, to me the 13900K and 4090 is if not perfect very close to it.
                              I don't have the FOV number for the Varjo Aero but should be easy enough for you to find if you search for it and/or watch a couple of YT reviews. What I can say is the sensation of looking down a narrow binoculars is less than any of the headsets I've used in the past. Including the Oculus Rift CV1, Samsung Odyssey+, HP Reverb and HP Reverb G2.

                              Personally, I couldn't be more happy with the Varjo Aero. It's an absolutely amazing headset and flying virtually has never felt more realistic! It's expensive compared to most other headsets but if you're into VR flying, I don't think you'll be able to get anything better as a consumer.
                              Richard Åsberg

                              Comment


                                #19
                                Originally posted by Captain Kevin View Post
                                He's using VR, so not really using a computer monitor at all. By the way, I contacted Jetline Systems the other day to ask them a technical question, they told me they had one person order a computer that was waiting for a 4090. I'm guessing that was you.
                                Yes, it is me. I visited them in Tampa last week. My mother board was fried. I had this order in for some time but he damn 4090 is being hogged by scalpers who are asking way over sales price. It may be a while until I get this new computer. I am hoping the PMDG 777 for MSFS will be out by then! maybe the EFB for the 737 at least. (maybe the LD757!!!)
                                Paul Gugliotta
                                13900K CPU - 4090 GPU

                                Comment


                                  #20
                                  Originally posted by Paulyg123 View Post
                                  Yes, it is me. I visited them in Tampa last week. My mother board was fried. I had this order in for some time but he damn 4090 is being hogged by scalpers who are asking way over sales price. It may be a while until I get this new computer. I am hoping the PMDG 777 for MSFS will be out by then! maybe the EFB for the 737 at least. (maybe the LD757!!!)
                                  Yeah, I told them I was pretty sure I knew who it was. Hope they can get a 4090 soon.
                                  Captain Kevin

                                  Kevin Yang

                                  Comment


                                    #21
                                    Does it make a difference who I get a 4090 card from?I see many company’s use the 4090 chip and build a card around it, I see gigabyte, MSI, PNY and nvidia, as 4090 suppliers at best buy. What’s the difference?..
                                    Last edited by Paulyg123; 07Nov2022, 22:50.
                                    Paul Gugliotta
                                    13900K CPU - 4090 GPU

                                    Comment


                                    • DDowns
                                      DDowns commented
                                      Editing a comment
                                      Very off topic Paul

                                    • Aeromar
                                      Aeromar commented
                                      Editing a comment
                                      They are the same card with the same features but they change clock speeds and add bespoke cooling solutions to support the faster clocks on the chip and the memory. They can be slightly faster and/or more silent than the original nVidia (founder's edition) card which is "usually" a bit noisier and slightly less powerful than 3rd party cards with the same chip.
                                  Working...
                                  X