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Help! 738 wants to climb hard when Autoland cancelled 3 miles out

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    #1

    Help! 738 wants to climb hard when Autoland cancelled 3 miles out

    This happened both times I was in CMD mode for an Autoland when I decided to cancel and land manually. Now when I turn off the AP during any other part of flight the plane flies w/ minimal need for elevator trim, but both of these landings required extreme nose down trim to overcome extreme nose up trim (presumably!) as soon as I turned off auto throttle and AP to convert the Autoland to manual. Any ideas what might be happening?
    😶 N o e l 🤔 P h a r e s 😎
    Tags: None
    #2
    I’ve noticed this far with SU10 - that the trim on approach seems to be trimmed on the high side. So when I kick off the AP I have to nose down or trim down some what significantly compared to pre SU10. Could be just me. I need to do more approaches but just an initial observation.
    Anthony Fluhart

    Comment

    • fludiddy
      #2.1
      fludiddy commented
      23Sep2022, 14:43
      Editing a comment
      My last two approaches I noticed the trim was pushing 6.0 or higher.
    #3
    Originally posted by fludiddy View Post
    I’ve noticed this far with SU10 - that the trim on approach seems to be trimmed on the high side. So when I kick off the AP I have to nose down or trim down some what significantly compared to pre SU10. Could be just me. I need to do more approaches but just an initial observation.
    Anthony, try duplicating what I'm talking about, a stable CMD autoland, then cancel the AP to land. I mentioned this because I've done approaches for a straight ILS landing (not full autoland) and not had this extreme nose-up trim.
    😶 N o e l 🤔 P h a r e s 😎

    Comment

      #4
      Noel,

      do you use FSUiPC? If yes, remove the ini and try again. SU10 brings significant changes the ini might not handle well.
      Ryzen 7 5800X3D, RTX4080, 32GB DDR4 RAM @3600MHz, 4k
      Marc Eland
      GFO Beta
      • 👍 1

      Comment

        #5
        What airport and approach? What model? What ZFW? What was fuel remaining? Real world weather? What was the Metar? What add-ons?

        it’s very difficult to comment on this without the information above.
        Last edited by Falcon99; 23Sep2022, 16:21.
        George Morris

        Comment

          #6
          Were you definitely at 3 miles?

          During Autoland, at 400' (approx 1.3 miles) a (relatively) huge amount of nose-up trim is applied and (speaking from experience) it is almost impossible to overcome the back-pressure on the column without running nose-down trim.

          Paul Adrian
          Last edited by King Orro; 24Sep2022, 01:28.
          • 👍 1

          Comment

            #7
            Thanks all I think most of it is my new TCA Boeing Yoke and TQ. It's so different from the old Saitek and I've not gotten use to this much finer control. Much longer throws to effect input on pitch in particular. I generally for an approach pitch of +5 so I'm already nose up and I think as I say part of it is I'm just not used to the very long throw and it takes more to push the nose down. One of the two landings that behaved like this there was wicked quartering headwind/crosswind and because of my +5 pitch was poised to catch some of that.

            One other question if you will: is it possible to pre-set reverse thrust such that it automatically deploys upon landing, without needing to hit a button during touchdown or what have you? If I recall that is the way it worked in P3D at least up thru v4.5 w/ the NGXu. The TQ I have has reverse thrust levers mimicking the real Boeing ones but it's kind of hard to coordinate for me at touchdown as I'm still not great w/ the new yoke.
            😶 N o e l 🤔 P h a r e s 😎

            Comment

              #8
              You can't pre-set reverse thrust on any airplane as far as I know. What you may be confusing it with is the speed brakes. You can arm the speed brakes prior to touchdown, so they deploy once you touch down. You wouldn't want this for the thrust reversers. Say for instance, at the moment of touchdown, you decide for some unknown reason you needed to go around. If the thrust reversers deployed the second you touched down, you couldn't do that because once the thrust reversers are deployed, you're now committed to stopping.
              Captain Kevin

              Kevin Yang

              Comment

                #9
                Pauls comment above was my very first thought as well. At 400ft RA the autopilot adds a lot of nose up trim. If you disconnect below that your nose will shoot up. You are not supposed to do that during an autoland.
                From my companies QRH: "Once the briefing and approach checks are completed the Autoland has to be flown to completion, even if the weather improves above the defining criteria".
                • 👍 1

                Comment

                  #10
                  Originally posted by Emi View Post
                  Pauls comment above was my very first thought as well. At 400ft RA the autopilot adds a lot of nose up trim. If you disconnect below that your nose will shoot up. You are not supposed to do that during an autoland.
                  From my companies QRH: "Once the briefing and approach checks are completed the Autoland has to be flown to completion, even if the weather improves above the defining criteria".
                  Ok that was probably the issue compounded by conditions--I may well have been under 400' and I wondered if this is ever done and it sounds like in general no you're not to disconnect during an autoland and especially below 400' thanks for this!
                  😶 N o e l 🤔 P h a r e s 😎

                  Comment

                    #11
                    Originally posted by Captain Kevin View Post
                    You can't pre-set reverse thrust on any airplane as far as I know. What you may be confusing it with is the speed brakes. You can arm the speed brakes prior to touchdown, so they deploy once you touch down. You wouldn't want this for the thrust reversers. Say for instance, at the moment of touchdown, you decide for some unknown reason you needed to go around. If the thrust reversers deployed the second you touched down, you couldn't do that because once the thrust reversers are deployed, you're now committed to stopping.
                    Thanks Kevin--nah, I know about the speed brake issue but good thought. For years in P3D I had the button on the throttle axis set up and I swear the RT did not deploy until touchdown so I assumed this was the way it was supposed to be. If you had to do a sudden GA you could just override the RT and push the throttle forward and that would stop the RT but yes okay that is not the way it's supposed to be so thanks for that I will just pull the lever back upon TD.
                    Last edited by NoelCP; 24Sep2022, 13:53.
                    😶 N o e l 🤔 P h a r e s 😎

                    Comment

                      #12
                      Originally posted by NoelCP View Post
                      If you had to do a sudden GA you could just override the RT and push the throttle forward and that would stop the RT but yes okay that is not the way it's supposed to be so thanks for that I will just pull the lever back upon TD.
                      If you did a go-around after the thrust reversers have already been deployed, you better have a good reason for doing it since you would be violating procedures at that point. It's Boeing (and I'm guessing Airbus) that stipulates that once the thrust reversers have been deployed, a full stop landing must be made. If you deployed the thrust reversers, attempt to go around, and one of the thrust reversers fails to stow, now you have massive problems since you have one engine at full thrust and the other at full reverse thrust.
                      Captain Kevin

                      Kevin Yang
                      • 👍 1

                      Comment

                        #13
                        Thanks Kevin it's nice to know why things are modeled the way they are for those of us who really don't know what they're doing! I have extreme fun w/ MSFS and FSX/P3D but I only have very cursory knowledge of what I'm doing. I learn bits and pieces here and there and that's good enough because I will never be a RW pilot. I use A Pilot's Life v2 and it scores each flight so that is my goal to score as high as able on all flights.

                        Cheers
                        😶 N o e l 🤔 P h a r e s 😎

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