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Winds a little too crazy?

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    Winds a little too crazy?

    Am I the only one experiencing wind acting erratically on SU10? I was using live weather and it seemed to be like it was gusting when in reality it was not actually in the real world. I do not know if it winds are just broken under certain conditions, but it made the aircraft really wobbly and nearly unflyable. It also caused one of my wings on the aircraft to lift up looking like I was about to hit the wing on the runway. Airspeed indicator was bouncing all over the place, the TAS and GS moving way to fast. Anybody else had this situation?

    Sergio Gutierrez

    #2
    ASOBO said they reduced the turbulence models as well, but I agree with you. The wind is much stronger or impacts the aircraft more severely it appears. This is with the NG and other airliners.
    Angelo Cosma

    Comment


    • sergio8234
      sergio8234 commented
      Editing a comment
      I really could not control it there at the end. It was difficult, hopefully it can get resolved

    #3
    Might your Vapp speed have been too low? It appears that you're Vapp is 141 or so, while Vref was 136. If I remember right the approach speed should exceed the reference speed by one half the head wind plus the entire gust component. The first few seconds of the video clip were blurry, so I'm not so sure about those numbers. BTW, given that the MSFS ground physics have a real problem with crosswinds, that's a fine landing in my book.
    John Wiesenfeld - KPBI
    PPL/IFR, VATSIM C1 (ZNY)

    Comment


      #4
      Originally posted by jrw4 View Post
      Might your Vapp speed have been too low? It appears that you're Vapp is 141 or so, while Vref was 136. If I remember right the approach speed should exceed the reference speed by one half the head wind plus the entire gust component. The first few seconds of the video clip were blurry, so I'm not so sure about those numbers. BTW, given that the MSFS ground physics have a real problem with crosswinds, that's a fine landing in my book.
      I always tend to do Vref +5, I have been reading and learning more and more on how all of it works. My main issue however is just that it seems winds are pretty erratic. It shows a lot in how much the airspeed indicator bounces as well as the TAS and GS readings. The aircraft wobbles way too much as well where when I try to correct it, I am having to keep moving the yoke left and right more than normal to get it back. It is just a constant back and forth fight with it.
      Sergio Gutierrez

      Comment


        #5
        my biggest problem is that by making the sudden wind shifts into "gradual" gust-based wind shifts, now we are getting windshifts all the time, including right at touchdown.

        Yeah I guess we would need to accept some worse landings before they fix it/we find a way to cope with it.
        Ching Charng

        Comment


          #6
          in general i like the su10 winds it feels more like real turbulence to me (not that i've flown a real 737 through turbulence so grain of salt etc).

          i do agree it is somewhat odd that the gust values change so quickly all of the time, it's almost like every frame it gets a new random value which seems maybe a bit too fast and also causes problems with the pmdg autothrottle. had a few flights where the throttle couldn't figure out what to do with the values, i think it was sampling them at a much slower rate than they were randomizing, and ended up chasing it around too much and overspeeding the plane a bit. in that case i ended up turning off the a/t and set a fixed throttle setting until i was past the bumpy stuff.

          part of the problems in your landing may be due to pretty much cutting your throttle very early so you were at 10 knots below vref before you even got near the threshold and in gusty turbulence you want to be at +5 plus half of the gust component. also being flaps 40 probably exacerbates the situation, it looks like there was plenty of runway there for flaps 30 and a higher vapp which could help make it easier to fly, just a few thoughts. as far as if you are saying the METAR didn't have a gust component i'm not sure what to say about that, could be an asobo bug it wouldn't be the first one

          cheers,-andy crosby

          Comment


            #7
            Hi Sergio,
            It appeared to me that at the exact moment your wheels touch you are pulling right back on the yoke.
            That may well explain the sudden pitch up and flout you then experienced, rather than just wind or gust issues.
            Steve Mel

            Comment


              #8
              Originally posted by Steve M View Post
              Hi Sergio,
              It appeared to me that at the exact moment your wheels touch you are pulling right back on the yoke.
              That may well explain the sudden pitch up and flout you then experienced, rather than just wind or gust issues.
              That might be it for the reason why I did float a bit, I tend to sometimes pull back on the stick as I fly on an Xbox controller without noticing it. The only gripe I have is the way how the aircraft and is not only the PMDG but others as well, the aircraft is all over the place and the airspeed readings are all over the place.
              Sergio Gutierrez

              Comment


              • Mike.cbr
                Mike.cbr commented
                Editing a comment
                Completely agree with you Sergio , and it always happens at low level like below Fl140 it’s quite unrealistic , pfd shouldn’t be jumping that much in speed…..

              • sergio8234
                sergio8234 commented
                Editing a comment
                Yeah, that has never happened at all even in turbulent conditions

              #9
              Originally posted by sergio8234 View Post

              That might be it for the reason why I did float a bit, I tend to sometimes pull back on the stick as I fly on an Xbox controller without noticing it. The only gripe I have is the way how the aircraft and is not only the PMDG but others as well, the aircraft is all over the place and the airspeed readings are all over the place.
              Now that's interesting you mention an Xbox controller to fly with as I fly with a yoke and don't get the effect you are getting, only affected by weather when there really are gusts rather than all the time.
              So it now makes me wonder if there is some weird calibration issue going on, or if the sim is receiving phantom inputs from the controller?

              Also, check out posts regards the cloud save of the sim creating all sorts of weird and wonderful effects when corrupted with weights and performance, and how deleting that has fixed them for a number of people now.
              Might not be the problem you are having but worth looking into.

              Hope you get to the bottom of it soon, it must be very frustrating.
              Steve Mel

              Comment


              • sergio8234
                sergio8234 commented
                Editing a comment
                I have tried different controllers, I have a total of 3, all yielded the same results. The aircraft would continue to dip its left wing when I had the ailerons deflection to neutral causing me to bring it back to the right side and once neutralizing it again the aircraft would continue dip its right wing to the right causing this back-and-forth movement on the yoke to ensure that it stays level. Even though I am aware that moving the yoke back and forth is normal in gusty and windy conditions, it is still too excessive the movements that have to be done in the sim to keep it level.

              #10
              The problem revolves around the fact that post-SU10, MSFS2020 is artificially generating surface wind gusts at every airport in the sim, irregardless of actual real-world weather observations. In other words, the wind at the surface will now ALWAYS gust an average of 10kts, no matter what. Look at the wind socks at airports - they now jerk around and twitch all the time instead of fluttering in light breezes.

              Smooth landings in complex aircraft like the PMDG 737 are impossible anymore, sorry.
              Steve Atkins

              Comment


                #11
                Sergio, nice job on the final decent and runway lineup. You held the centerline well.

                A couple of additional items. What was the Metar at the airport? You had a good cross wind off the nose but I didn’t observe any cross wind correction over the runway? This is why you drifted right at touch down.

                Depending on the wind conditions I am not sure this was incorrect.
                George Morris

                Comment


                  #12
                  Originally posted by Falcon99 View Post
                  Sergio, nice job on the final decent and runway lineup. You held the centerline well.

                  A couple of additional items. What was the Metar at the airport? You had a good cross wind off the nose but I didn’t observe any cross wind correction over the runway? This is why you drifted right at touch down.

                  Depending on the wind conditions I am not sure this was incorrect.
                  During that time, when reading the real world METAR, it was reporting "METAR KSNA 220153Z 25005KT 10SM FEW020 24/16 A2988 RMK AO2 SLP117 T02390156="

                  It lines up to what the sim in terms of the direction is showing as in the video you see the winds varying anywhere from 250 to 270, I just find the way how it switches so fast. It like goes from 245 to 267 in a matter on less than a second and comes back around bouncing back and forth. I have checked my controllers as another posted stated if could have been my controllers, but comparing to 3 different controllers I have, they all yielded the same results.
                  Sergio Gutierrez

                  Comment


                    #13
                    • sergio8234
                      #9.1
                      sergio8234 commented
                      Today, 20:35
                      I have tried different controllers, I have a total of 3, all yielded the same results. The aircraft would continue to dip its left wing when I had the ailerons deflection to neutral causing me to bring it back to the right side and once neutralizing it again the aircraft would continue dip its right wing to the right causing this back-and-forth movement on the yoke to ensure that it stays level. Even though I am aware that moving the yoke back and forth is normal in gusty and windy conditions, it is still too excessive the movements that have to be done in the sim to keep it level.
                    ​As I mentioned I am not seeing this 737 behaviour, or effect on the plane of wind/gusts to the extent you are, so it is very odd and makes me wonder if something else is going on here?
                    Steve Mel

                    Comment


                    • sergio8234
                      sergio8234 commented
                      Editing a comment
                      I am trying everything from a clean install of the 737 to ensuring my controllers are properly calibrated and sensitivities to a point that I can control it. I would not think a reinstall of the 737 would work as I mentioned it is happening to other aircrafts. Never happened before SU10, my last resort will be a clean install of MSFS again to see if that will work hopefully. However, I am waiting to see if others have similar issues to what I have before going for a clean reinstall of the sim.
                      Last edited by sergio8234; 23Sep2022, 23:07.

                    #14
                    sergio8234 commented
                    Today, 22:03
                    I am trying everything from a clean install of the 737 to ensuring my controllers are properly calibrated and sensitivities to a point that I can control it. I would not think a reinstall of the 737 would work as I mentioned it is happening to other aircrafts. Never happened before SU10, my last resort will be a clean install of MSFS again to see if that will work hopefully. However, I am waiting to see if others have similar issues to what I have before going for a clean reinstall of the sim​

                    Which makes me wonder if your cloud save is corrupted?
                    That has caused performance issues for a number of people and some very odd and unexplainable effects.
                    If it comes to it, I would try that first before a sim reinstall.

                    https://flightsimulator.zendesk.com/...-cloud-save​
                    Steve Mel

                    Comment


                    • sergio8234
                      sergio8234 commented
                      Editing a comment
                      I will give it a try and see if it works out

                    • Steve M
                      Steve M commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Good luck, I hope it helps you.
                      Edit: While I think of it, I also assume you have all pilot assists turned off?
                      Last edited by Steve M; 23Sep2022, 23:53.

                    • sergio8234
                      sergio8234 commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Yes all assists are fully off

                    #15
                    Originally posted by Steve M View Post
                    • sergio8234
                      #9.1
                      sergio8234 commented
                      Today, 20:35
                      I have tried different controllers, I have a total of 3, all yielded the same results. The aircraft would continue to dip its left wing when I had the ailerons deflection to neutral causing me to bring it back to the right side and once neutralizing it again the aircraft would continue dip its right wing to the right causing this back-and-forth movement on the yoke to ensure that it stays level. Even though I am aware that moving the yoke back and forth is normal in gusty and windy conditions, it is still too excessive the movements that have to be done in the sim to keep it level.
                    ​As I mentioned I am not seeing this 737 behaviour, or effect on the plane of wind/gusts to the extent you are, so it is very odd and makes me wonder if something else is going on here?
                    Trust me, you WILL see this behavior. It's pretty pervasive with SU10.
                    Steve Atkins

                    Comment


                    • Steve M
                      Steve M commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Well with respect I haven't through the Beta and now with the final SU10.
                      So I don't know what is happening for you?

                    #16
                    I haven't read through all the comments above, so excuse me if that was covered already...

                    What I see looks pretty normal to me. A bit of wind, yes. You need to apply a bit of correction.
                    The wind itself didn't seem too bad to me. What I did see though was that you overcorrected quite often. Your yoke movement is quite erratic, try to make it smoother. You don't need those sudden strong inputs. Do that in the real plane and you'll be destabilised very quickly. Use smooth inputs instead and the whole thing will fly a lot smoother, even with this turbulence.

                    Comment


                    • sergio8234
                      sergio8234 commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Is it completely normal for the IAS and the TAS and GS readings to jump around like that? I mean granted I have never seen that happen in in the FSX or P3D days or in other simulators such as X-Plane. I obviously am not a real life 737 pilot, but it just seemed off to me to see it bouncing around that much. I also did try to tone down my controllers sensitivity to see if that can help me make much more gentle and smooth movements.

                    • Emi
                      Emi commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Yes, that's normal Sergio. Here's an excellent example from the real plane: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nyx4NyMrvOs

                    • sergio8234
                      sergio8234 commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Got it thank you! I guess it is something that I and am sure many others will have to adjust to then.
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