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"Invalid Entry" by entering a Airway and some other issues

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    "Invalid Entry" by entering a Airway and some other issues

    HI,

    I got the Message" Invalid Entr"y by entering thew following Route:

    EDDW/09 WSN1M WSN L23 HAM P605 GESKA Z706 NOVPO L997 LUNIP LUNIP4L
    ENGM/01R

    i inserteted the sid with the WSN1M depature but i get always not the WSN endpoint of the SID. I get always something like WSNNB as End Point of the Sid.
    Then i tried to insert the L23 Airway which ends at the HAM Waypoint. But by enterieng the L23 Airway i get always the Message "Invalid Entry" in the MCDU.
    I use the newest Navigraph Airac whioch is actual Aircac 2208. I updatet also the AIrcac of the PMDG with the NAvData Center App from PMDG.

    I tried also to enter the Route in Xplane n the ZiboMod and there it works fine. The Zibo Mod is also updated with the newest Airac from Navigraph wit h the FMS Manager App from Navigraph.
    And when i set the trust to idle at the zibo i can hear a click sound which isnt there in the PMDG when i set the Trust to idel. i cvhecked a few real world Videos in Youtube if i can here also there a click when the pilots set the thrust to the idel position. and yes ther is a click sound when the pilots in the video set the trust in reallife in the 737 to idel. its this sound missing in the pmdg?
    And also the Wingfelx Animation seems to me like a loop. i would like to see it to improve
    I Hope you can Help. And its very dificult to brake with a trigger one the Joystick. Because i have the trigger to release and press a few times again at landing to dont overheat the brakes. I would like to see a improvment that me allows to hold the trigger down at landing how with the other planes in the msfs and also in the zibo. to not overheat the brakes and burst my wheels.

    Last But not least its my first evre payware Aircraft. And i enjoy it every time. Yes it has his bugs but i hope that they get sorted out and will be fixed.

    Thanks for your work pmdg.

    regards Legendsy.
    Last edited by Legendsy; 31Aug2022, 17:23.
    Brian(Dansk/german spoken) Bu

    #2
    fg.pngtried to enter the Airway L23 at the Left side. And i tired also to insert the route first befor i insert the Sid in i gett the same issue unfortunaly





    sdq.png
    Aircac version
    Last edited by Legendsy; 31Aug2022, 13:56.
    Brian(Dansk/german spoken) Bu

    Comment


      #3
      when i insert after the endpoint of the sid an direct to wsn it seems to work. it looks then like this. 23.png

      and in the Nd it looks then like this:
      we.png
      Brian(Dansk/german spoken) Bu

      Comment


        #4
        So then i deleted in the leg page again wsn and moved the waipoint after sid endpoint wssnb up to remove the appered disscontinuty. it looks like this: and it seems to work. i dont have a glue what this issue is. becaue how i described above in xplane works when i insert the sid i can directly insert the l23 airway after the endpoint of the sid.
        df.png

        that what the route page is displaying now.
        as.png
        Last edited by Legendsy; 31Aug2022, 16:21.
        Brian(Dansk/german spoken) Bu

        Comment


          #5
          I tired it also with the FBW A320 and it works fine and i get the correct WSN name of the SID andn ot like in the PMDG the wsnnb name. i get in the pmdg also this issue with stock pmdg nav datat without navigraph
          Last edited by Legendsy; 31Aug2022, 17:12.
          Brian(Dansk/german spoken) Bu

          Comment


            #6
            WSNNB is the same as WSN NB navaid. I see that several times in various locations. The SID will have xxxNB but the airway uses just xxx.

            L23 uses WSN so all you have to do is replace WSNNB with WSN and then it will connect via L23 to HAM. Easy.
            Dan Downs KCRP
            i7-10700K 32GB 3600MHz 3080Ti

            Comment


              #7
              Legendsy please sign your posts with your full real name as you agreed to do on signing up for this forum. Just add a signature to your profile settings.
              Otherwise your posts will get removed by Admin.
              Eddie Zetlein, Surrey.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Dr_Eddie View Post
                Legendsy please sign your posts with your full real name as you agreed to do on signing up for this forum. Just add a signature to your profile settings.
                Otherwise your posts will get removed by Admin.
                Yes i will do it. thanks for the notification
                Brian(Dansk/german spoken) Bu

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by DDowns View Post
                  WSNNB is the same as WSN NB navaid. I see that several times in various locations. The SID will have xxxNB but the airway uses just xx
                  x.
                  L23 uses WSN so all you have to do is replace WSNNB with WSN and then it will connect via L23 to HAM. Easy.
                  wehre i have to replace the waypoints in the leg or route page?
                  i tried it in the roue page first and insertet wsn at the position of wsnnb. but it seems to mee that messed the whole flightplan up. because i got a lot of disconinutys and empty lines in the route page. And is it als o in relife so that the pilots have to to replace it with the wsn waypoint?
                  Attached Files
                  Last edited by Legendsy; 31Aug2022, 19:57.
                  Brian(Dansk/german spoken) Bu

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Legendsy View Post

                    wehre i have to replace the waypoints in the leg or route page?
                    I prefer to make edits like this on the LEGS page, but either way works. The issue with the RTE page is that the NB waypoint is a part of a terminal procedure and changing it to WSN changes the terminal procedure, sometimes turning each segment into directs instead of part of a SID. In the end this makes no difference.

                    The alternate is to retain WSNNB and then direct STADE thence L23 HAM. I think it's easier just replacing WSNNB and using the airway.
                    Dan Downs KCRP
                    i7-10700K 32GB 3600MHz 3080Ti

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by DDowns View Post

                      I prefer to make edits like this on the LEGS page, but either way works. The issue with the RTE page is that the NB waypoint is a part of a terminal procedure and changing it to WSN changes the terminal procedure, sometimes turning each segment into directs instead of part of a SID. In the end this makes no difference.

                      The alternate is to retain WSNNB and then direct STADE thence L23 HAM. I think it's easier just replacing WSNNB and using the airway.
                      is this a real world procedure of the eddw wsn1m sid?

                      Thanks to replace it over the leg pages works. What i dont understand is why a zibo and a fbw a320 neo dont have thes probleme wehre i have to replace this waypoint? in the zibo and fbw when i insert the sid i get wsn as endpoint and can easy insert below the l23. All use the same database of navigraph
                      Last edited by Legendsy; 31Aug2022, 20:49.
                      Brian(Dansk/german spoken) Bu

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Legendsy View Post

                        Thanks to replace it over the leg pages works. What i dont understand is why a zibo and a fbw a320 neo dont have thes probleme wehre i have to replace this waypoint? in the zibo and fbw when i insert the sid i get wsn as endpoint and can easy insert below the l23. All use the same database of navigraph
                        I don't think anyone else uses the same navdata format as PMDG anymore. PMDG is still using a format from the 90's. Just because different developers use Navigraph does not mean they use the same formats. Navigraph customizes the ARINC 424 data to match the requirements of the airplane developer.

                        PMDG hopefully migrates to current standard navdata format this year, they are working on it now.
                        Dan Downs KCRP
                        i7-10700K 32GB 3600MHz 3080Ti

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by DDowns View Post

                          I don't think anyone else uses the same navdata format as PMDG anymore. PMDG is still using a format from the 90's. Just because different developers use Navigraph does not mean they use the same formats. Navigraph customizes the ARINC 424 data to match the requirements of the airplane developer.

                          PMDG hopefully migrates to current standard navdata format this year, they are working on it now.
                          ok thanks for the info. have a nicee day
                          Brian(Dansk/german spoken) Bu

                          Comment


                            #14


                            fg.png ​And at LEBB(Bilbao) i get a slimar issue. When i inserte the Arival route over the DOSU2Z Arrival Via Aspes. the route looks then completly weird and broken. I get a lot of dupilcated waypoints and also when i try to remove the waypoints it looks still weird and more broken then before. i get also this issue with the fbw a320nx. so i think the problem is on ms/asobo side.​
                            But here my route below with 2 pictures.

                            EGLL/27R DCT GASGU N866 SAM M195 MARUK N621 LELNA DCT NOVAN DCT
                            NENEM Q42 XORNA R75 DOSUL DOSUL2Z LEBB/12​




















                            df.png
                            Attached Files
                            Brian(Dansk/german spoken) Bu

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Legendsy View Post

                              ​And at LEBB(Bilbao) i get a slimar issue. When i inserte the Arival route over the DOSU2Z Arrival Via Aspes. the route looks then completly weird and broken. I get a lot of dupilcated waypoints and also when i try to remove the waypoints it looks still weird and more broken then before. i get also this issue with the fbw a320nx. so i think the problem is on ms/asobo side.​
                              But here my route below with 2 pictures.

                              EGLL/27R DCT GASGU N866 SAM M195 MARUK N621 LELNA DCT NOVAN DCT
                              NENEM Q42 XORNA R75 DOSUL DOSUL2Z LEBB/12​
                              I don't see the segment XORNA R75 DOSUL in the FMC. Looking at the wpNavRTE.txt file, which is the navdata file that defines routes, I see that R75 is a direct between XORNA and DOSUL so why isn't DOSUL appearing before you plug in the arrival?

                              There is something wrong with the way the route was entered before entering the arrival.


                              Dan Downs KCRP
                              i7-10700K 32GB 3600MHz 3080Ti

                              Comment


                                #16
                                firstly thanks for your Answere.

                                Originally posted by DDowns View Post

                                why isn't DOSUL appearing before you plug in the arrival?
                                It is appering before Aspen and before my arriva l.But it isnt to see in the pictures unfortunaly. Becasue of the lower zoom level of the nd.
                                ​ before i plugin the arrival.

                                i inserted the R75 Airway and then the Waypoint DOSUL.


                                But what have i done bnefore? Here my steps.

                                1. i pressed the depature button and selected the 27L as Runway in EGLL
                                2. I went to the route page and inserted an direct to gasgu.
                                3. then i enetered the full routeing including Dosul.
                                4. I pressed the APPR/Dep Button and Entered the Ils 12 and inserted the Arrival DOSUL2Z and the Via Aspen.
                                5. And then it looks like this. how you can see in the pictures.
                                Attached Files
                                Last edited by Legendsy; 12Sep2022, 19:05.
                                Brian(Dansk/german spoken) Bu

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  The LEBB arrival DOSUL2Z terminates at ROSTO (D8.0 IBO). ROSTO is not used by either ILS Z 12 or ILS Y 12, but is used by VOR 12.

                                  The only way I can see one may resolve this is to enter ASPES.ILSZ12 and then select DOSUL2Z, now put ASPES in the LEGS for the ILS into the scratchpad and copy it over the ASPES in the arrival. Now you have married the arrival to the approach.

                                  I assume you have charts to assist.
                                  Dan Downs KCRP
                                  i7-10700K 32GB 3600MHz 3080Ti

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by DDowns View Post
                                    The LEBB arrival DOSUL2Z terminates at ROSTO (D8.0 IBO). ROSTO is not used by either ILS Z 12 or ILS Y 12, but is used by VOR 12.

                                    The only way I can see one may resolve this is to enter ASPES.ILSZ12 and then select DOSUL2Z, now put ASPES in the LEGS for the ILS into the scratchpad and copy it over the ASPES in the arrival. Now you have married the arrival to the approach.

                                    I assume you have charts to assist.
                                    Thanks for your answere i will try it. And can it happen also in realife, that that issue can appear to the pilots?

                                    i tried and it works.

                                    and i really dont have any glu what triggers this issue. do you have maybe a guess?
                                    Last edited by Legendsy; 12Sep2022, 20:42.
                                    Brian(Dansk/german spoken) Bu

                                    Comment


                                    • DDowns
                                      DDowns commented
                                      Editing a comment
                                      It's pretty unusual to see an arrival extend beyond the IAF of an approach, but one has to be flexible and operator the aircraft as the guy in command.

                                    #19
                                    here the another charts for the ilsz rwy 12 of lebb
                                    Attached Files
                                    Brian(Dansk/german spoken) Bu

                                    Comment


                                    • DDowns
                                      DDowns commented
                                      Editing a comment
                                      Yes, I was using charts when I last responded. Note, as I wrote, the final fix of the STAR is not used by either ILS procedure and this is what tripped you.

                                    • Legendsy
                                      Legendsy commented
                                      Editing a comment
                                      OK Thanks for your Answere again. you helped me a lot with you informations. now ican understand it more what i dosent understand now, why are in the charts these final fixes of the star displayed when their arent any more in use?

                                    #20
                                    Legendsy the question you should ask is why has the aviation authority designed an arrival that is only appropriate for the VOR12 approach. The charts are up to date, that is not the problem. They can still be used but it is normal in aviation to have to make adjustments to a flight plan. It's not a big issue.

                                    There isn't much in aviation that is precise and immobile, other than fly the airplane first and always have equal number of takeoff and landings.
                                    Dan Downs KCRP
                                    i7-10700K 32GB 3600MHz 3080Ti

                                    Comment


                                    • Legendsy
                                      Legendsy commented
                                      Editing a comment
                                      Now i can comprehend it complety. thank you for your time and information.

                                    #21
                                    I am not an expert, but after looking at that somewhat confusing arrival chart for a while, I think the DOSUL 2T arrival may have been the better choice. Unfortunately, the Navigraph charts don't include the textual description of the arrival, so I had to go to the AIP charts for that. Both the DOSUL 2T and DOSUL 2Z arrivals list two different IAF's, but only the 2T arrival includes ASPES as an IAF. According to the textual description in the AIP charts, the 2Z arrival doesn't even include ASPES.

                                    DOSUL TWO TANGO ARRIVAL (DOSUL2T)
                                    DOSUL, R-324 BLV/17.0 DME BLV, ARC 15.0 DME BLV, ASPES (IAF), ARC 15.0 DME BLV/R-300 BLV, SUNIR (IAF).​

                                    DOSUL TWO ZULU ARRIVAL (DOSUL2Z)
                                    DOSUL, R-324 BLV/17.0 DME BLV, ARC 15.0 DME BLV, KALDO (IAF), ROSTO (IAF)

                                    I don't have the simulator open at the moment, but check and see if the DOSUL 2T arrival works better in this situation.​

                                    Edit: After taking a bit more time to compare the Navigraph and AIP charts, even though I generally prefer the Navigraph charts I think I would actually prefer the AIP charts in this case. The AIP chart contains a good bit of information that just isn't on the Navigraph chart, and the AIP chart is actually almost three years newer than the Navigraph chart.
                                    Last edited by Want2BFlyin; 13Sep2022, 02:24.
                                    Tim Lincoln
                                    My YouTube Channel

                                    Comment


                                    • Legendsy
                                      Legendsy commented
                                      Editing a comment
                                      I treid it with the DOSUL2T Arrival. but i got the same issue. unfortunaly. but thanks for your help

                                    • DDowns
                                      DDowns commented
                                      Editing a comment
                                      Mostly agree, by selecting DOSUL2T the final arrival fix ASPES coincides with ILSZ12 IAF ASPES. No over writing of fixes to patch up the discontinuity should be required. Not sure why OP had the "same" problem.

                                    • Want2BFlyin
                                      Want2BFlyin commented
                                      Editing a comment
                                      DDowns I'm just speculating here, but since ASPES is not the last IAF on that arrival, there may still be a discontinuity that needs to be resolved. However, since 2T includes ASPES in the arrival route and 2Z does not, I would think that it would be simpler to clear the discontinuity with the 2T arrival.

                                    #22
                                    i got on my latest flight yesterday evening a slimar issue on the route LFKB/16 MEGER2W MEGER Z911 OLETI M858 CANNE Z651 KELIP KELIP3G
                                    LSZH/34​
                                    ​. At the kelip3g arrival i got again these weird lokking routeing at the arrival. i solve it when i deleted some waypoints at the arrival routeing. i guess it could be a navdata format problem, but my navigraph datas all up to date.
                                    Last edited by Legendsy; 15Sep2022, 13:48.
                                    Brian(Dansk/german spoken) Bu

                                    Comment

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