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PMDG 737 Engine Sounds and sounds in general need improving

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    #31
    I am new to these boards and was coming here to post a question about why the hydraulic and fuel pump sounds in the cabin are next to non-existent, which is not the case in an actual 737. All my audio settings match the screenshots above, but based on this thread, I would assume this is by design.

    It does seem a ton of work goes into sound engineering, but this is a miss and removes the immersion. And, while I understand this is on MSFS and is a completely different platform from XP11, I would like to compare that the freeware by Zibo and team has fantastic sounds (albeit not exact, but close enough) all around, inside and out.

    To see some argument here is a bit disconcerting considering this is a product us customers are actually paying for. I do hope the PMDG team is taking this feedback to be addressed in a future update.

    Thanks for your time.

    Jared K.
    Jared K.

    Comment


      #32
      Wing animations do need improving for sure, but I actually enjoy the sounds. I have even tried 3rd party sound packs and always end up reverting back to the default sounds. I flew Southwest a week ago and I also feel like the sounds I am hearing with this product were pretty similar to the sounds I was hearing on the real thing.
      David Rankin
      Ryzen 9 5950X - STRIX 3090 OC - Kraken Z73 - STRIX B450F - 32GB Vengeance RGB 3600MHz - Samsung 980 Pro & 970 Evo

      Comment


        #33
        Originally posted by AlexMal01 View Post

        As i said to the other guy, ive flown on many 737's and I know for a fact they need tweaking, something isnt right, maybe it needs more Bass/ engine sound pitch tweaks? I'm no sound engineer but I have ears and i know that it needs Tuning for sure.
        Alex,

        This is ONLY my opinion. I am not an expert in the creation of sounds for flight simulation or any games out there. I am simply a flight attendant working for a major US airline since 1998 and I know you said that you have flown the 738 many times BUT I fly it on a daily bases and have been doing so since 2016 when I move to an east coast base. Soooo... I did compare the sound of the real aircraft taken from back, middle and forward cabin. Just so you know, and I am very sure you know this because you have flown the aircraft many, many times, that me as a flight attendant, I get to go inside the cockpit of the aircraft often in mid-flight on revenue flights... haha, lucky me!!!... but that's besides the point, you know, I wanted to say that!!!... Anyhow, I compared another recording from the flightdeck with the permission of the captain. I have also ferried more than a few planes so whenever I do, I get to sit in the flightdeck jumpseat and watch the taxi, takeoff and landings and guess what... I thought the PMDG sounds are preeeeetty good. In fact, I was very impressed with it. So, KUDOS to PMDG and the sounds engineers for an amazing sound set!!!

        Aaaaaaanyhow... this is just an observation that I felt compelled to share. That's all. Oh crap, I need to go to sleep. I have a flight tomorrow early afternoon on the 737-800! :-)

        By the way... those YouTube videos are good reference but I wouldn't go by those sounds. I don't know.. they just don't sound right!!

        Kind regards,
        Last edited by Pablo Vazquez; 11Sep2022, 08:08.
        Pablo Vazquez
        Flight Attendant for a major US airline

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          #34
          While I agree that the sounds are not terrible, they also are not excellent. They certainly need some work and fine-tuning to be that bit more realistic in my view.
          Now before anyone here decides to go on the attack over my opinion as they have above. 4,000 hours equal almost to 167 days of my life sitting on the flight deck of these aircraft. I know what they sound like and the sounds certainly need work.
          Rob Parks

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            #35
            Rob, everyone is entitled to have an opinion and I respect yours.

            Sound is so subjective, no one is ever going to agree with everyone else. Some questions can never be answered. Like , does a Mexican built Fender Stratocaster sound as good or better than a Pre-CBS American built Stratocaster ? Everyone will have a different opinion. Its in our ears , and our hearing. No two people will have exactly the same audiogram. So this is one subject that may never be put to bed.
            Eddie Zetlein, Surrey.

            Comment


            • Want2BFlyin
              Want2BFlyin commented
              Editing a comment
              This is most likely why there is a band that I listen to occasionally that I just can't get into. Everyone in the band is incredibly talented, including the lead singer, but there is just something about her voice that I can't wrap my head around. She is an undeniably good singer, and I don't hate her singing, but I don't like it either. It sucks because I really enjoy the band's music, but when she is singing the song goes from an 8 or 9 to a 5 or 6, and it isn't because she is a bad singer. There is just some undefinable element in her voice that I just can't seem to enjoy.

            • Dr_Eddie
              Dr_Eddie commented
              Editing a comment
              Yep, I know just what you mean. I could listen to Aretha Franklin all night, but my partner leaves the room with her hands over her ears.............. Lol.

            #36
            Originally posted by robbietp111 View Post
            While I agree that the sounds are not terrible, they also are not excellent. They certainly need some work and fine-tuning to be that bit more realistic in my view.
            Now before anyone here decides to go on the attack over my opinion as they have above. 4,000 hours equal almost to 167 days of my life sitting on the flight deck of these aircraft. I know what they sound like and the sounds certainly need work.
            Hello Rob,

            totally agree with you. Sound are not bad, but not very good either.

            The absolutely worst thing is that the engine characteristic "transition" sound from idle to 40% is missing. I don't know if PMDG are not interested in this but this flaw is so obvious that i hurts.

            Every time I read about the soundset in these forums my blood pressure rises because I think: Man, the sound COULD BE so good, why don't they do it, do they want to punish us?

            Still waiting for a good soundset by 3rd party or changes by PMDG. Maybe they have time after renovating the sistine chapel.

            Regards

            Malte Dietsch

            Comment


              #37
              I love the arguments over subjective opinions. I had a guy once tell me that my solo to Black Magic woman did not sound quite like Santana. I replied, "That is a good thing. Santana did not play it". One person arguing a sound set is good or bad is frankly always going to be wrong, because someone else will think it is the opposite. A waste of life expectancy is all it is.
              Mark "Crabby" Crabtree AAL311 | PHL
              I7-9700KF | 2070 Super | Honeycomb Alpha/Bravo | MFG Crosswind

              Comment


                #38
                Originally posted by AlexMal01 View Post
                Just gonna get straight to the point.. the sounds in the pmdg 737 sound nothing like a real 737-800 it isn't hard to see the difference, just simply watch a YouTube video and compare the sounds, The things I find satisfying the most about aviation is sounds and wingflex and I've already posted a topic about the wingflex earlier on but now I'm talking about the sounds, I don't know how to describe it but the engine spool up and buzz sounds just don't sound right, as I said you can watch a youtube video to see the difference. Also the sounds when sitting over the wing need work like the fuel pump sounds, engine spool up sounds, flaps sounds etc they all need tuning. As I said in my last topic about the wingflex I think PMDG need to work on the visual and immersion side of the aircraft rather than mainly systems. I honestly havent seen a major difference between the 700, and the 800 the only difference I could see is that they added a flashlight thing in the cockpit, instead of focusing on the main issues like I've mentioned in my last 2 Topics.
                I don't post here often. However tonight I couldn't help myself.

                Our online group flies the 737-800 with a real world 737-800 FO. He flies with Nokair in Thailand.

                His thoughts are that the PMDG 737 sound set is extremely accurate and true to life.

                So unless you're flying the real thing, you've got no right to make these comments. Get yourself back to reality champ.

                Jase

                Comment


                  #39
                  Originally posted by squashplayer View Post

                  Hello Rob,

                  totally agree with you. Sound are not bad, but not very good either.

                  The absolutely worst thing is that the engine characteristic "transition" sound from idle to 40% is missing. I don't know if PMDG are not interested in this but this flaw is so obvious that i hurts.

                  Every time I read about the soundset in these forums my blood pressure rises because I think: Man, the sound COULD BE so good, why don't they do it, do they want to punish us?

                  Still waiting for a good soundset by 3rd party or changes by PMDG. Maybe they have time after renovating the sistine chapel.

                  Regards

                  Malte Dietsch
                  I do agree, that range of sound from idle to around 40% could do with a little work.
                  Sound is subjective and to most, it's not noticeable but my genuine feedback from someone who is used to listening to this every single day. There certainly is something lacking a bit here.
                  Can I live with this not being fixed, for sure... I know there are more pressing things to be addressed. But I do agree with you.
                  Rob Parks

                  Comment


                    #40
                    Originally posted by robbietp111 View Post

                    I do agree, that range of sound from idle to around 40% could do with a little work.
                    Sound is subjective and to most, it's not noticeable but my genuine feedback from someone who is used to listening to this every single day. There certainly is something lacking a bit here.
                    Can I live with this not being fixed, for sure... I know there are more pressing things to be addressed. But I do agree with you.
                    The actual engine response behavior up to 40% needs work, so that may be why the sound is different, but the quality of the audio in my opinion is excellent in this range. In the real airplane when you bring up the throttle to 40% you hear a whooshing and the sound of the engines very slowly starting to spool, the all of a sudden they speed up to 40%. This sound is not the same because the behavior of the engines is wrong.
                    -Mike Iacovetta

                    Comment


                      #41
                      Dear all,


                      Thanks again for all your feedback - it is all noted, appreciated and being considered.

                      Sounds will always be subjective to the individual concerned and dependent on numerous factors like personal experience, individual's hearing, hardware, speakers, environment, software settings and other factors. History has shown us in all flight simulators since the beginning, regardless of flight sim platform or aircraft type .... some people "love" this soundset and some other people "hate" the exact same soundset .... this has happened from day one and will carry on like this forever!

                      Same thing applies not just to flight sims but also games titles and music of all types since the beginning of the industry. The reality is that when it comes to sounds in any context of perception across any genre, you will never have a situation where everyone is happy with how something sounds. The saying "You can't please all of the people all of the time" applies to sound in every way you can imagine!

                      Now, with all this in mind - our primary goal has always been to create immersive and feature rich sound sets that would, by default, please and impress the vast majority of our customers in terms of realism and audio immersion, and in my opinion, I think we have achieved this goal for the 737 line in MSFS.

                      However ........ there is always room for improvement .... always!!!! So we are not finished yet !!!

                      Further sound improvements are in the pipeline for all 737 models - to improve in the areas particularly highlighted by our customers - please see my comment in this post with the latest information. Additionally, other sound improvements not mentioned in this post are also in the development cycle for a future update.

                      I really like the sound pack in its current state. It's mostly spot on and the best there is at them moment in my opinion. However I'm not a fan of the engine squeal sound that you hear at take off power. It's too loud and not the best quality. I've compared it to a few videos of a real 737 take off just to be sure. I'm



                      Mike - the whooshing is there already - and we will try to make it more pronounced in the future - have a look at this post - where some people already noticed not only the whoosh, but its incorrect behaviour when using the APU only as a source for the packs.

                      On a recent flight where I took off with engine bleeds off and APU bleed on for better takeoff performance, I noticed that the air conditioning sound in the cockpit behaved as if the packs were running on the engine bleeds. The characteristically whooshing sound of increased and decreased engine N1, even though it shouldn't be



                      Again, thanks for all the feedback and stay tuned for further updates and improvements in all of the 737 sound sets!

                      Coming soon!

                      Armen Cholakian
                      PMDG Sound Engineer

                      Comment


                        #42
                        FTSim have now upgraded their 737 soundset for PMDG. Bought it today (through Patreon) and it is in many regards better than PMDG's default sound, sounds much more realistic.

                        In the current version, I can recommend it.

                        Regards

                        Malte Dietsch

                        Comment


                          #43
                          Originally posted by squashplayer View Post
                          FTSim have now upgraded their 737 soundset for PMDG. Bought it today (through Patreon) and it is in many regards better than PMDG's default sound, sounds much more realistic.

                          In the current version, I can recommend it.

                          Regards

                          Malte Dietsch

                          Malte, appreciate the opinion and thanks for the post. I am concerned about your statement that the FTSim sound set is more realistic than PMDG's. What is your base line for comparison? Do you have real world PIC time in model and type? If so, could you elaborate on what specifically is lacking? In my experience, PMDG has always been open to hearing suggestions for improvements.

                          If not, then if subjectively in your opinion you like the replacement sound set better, well that's a bit different isn't it?

                          While I don't have PIC time in model and type, I have hundreds of hours in the first class bulk head seats behind the galley on an 800. I also have just over 1,000 hours total time in single and multi-engine piston aircraft including over 20 hours in various business jets and 3 hours of PIC in a TBM 700. Using my real world experiences as my base line, IMHO the PMDG sound set is a good representation of the real world 737 within the limitations of MSFS and my current sound system's capabilities.

                          Now that being said, Armen has stated multiple times that he is continuing to work on and enhance the current sound set. I know I may be a bit bias but I am a big fan of Armen's work!
                          Last edited by Falcon99; 24Nov2022, 20:17.
                          George Morris

                          Comment


                            #44
                            Originally posted by Falcon99 View Post

                            Malte, appreciate the opinion and thanks for the post. I am concerned about your statement that the FTSim sound set is more realistic than PMDG's. What is your base line for comparison? Do you have real world PIC time in model and type? If so, could you elaborate on what specifically is lacking? In my experience, PMDG has always been open to hearing suggestions for improvements.

                            If not, then if subjectively in your opinion you like the replacement sound set better, well that's a bit different isn't it?

                            While I don't have PIC time in model and type, I have hundreds of hours in the first class bulk head seats behind the galley on an 800. I also have just over 1,000 hours total time in single and multi-engine piston aircraft including over 20 hours in various business jets and 3 hours of PIC in a TBM 700. Using my real world experiences as my base line, IMHO the PMDG sound set is a good representation of the real world 737 within the limitations of MSFS and my current sound system's capabilities.

                            Now that being said, Armen has stated multiple times that he is continuing to work on and enhance the current sound set. I know I may be a bit bias but I am a big fan of Armen's work!
                            Hey George.

                            I wholeheartedly agree with you. I must have logged over 1000 hours on the bulkhead row on the 800. I mostly fly American and have over 6 Million miles flown with them and when I fly on the 800, I usually fly 1A or 1F, and I agree..........PMDG's sounds are spot on. There may be differences between aircraft and aircraft, mainly probably due to engine wear and tear and differences in the whine, but all in all, spot on. My advice to PMDG......if you want to make adjustments here and there in the interest of realism, by all means, but don't mess these up - they are fantastic.
                            Sincerely,

                            Dennis D. Müllert

                            Comment


                              #45
                              Fenix got the same type of remarks for their A320 sounds. They replied with this video and a short comments which explain how recording devices can really modify sounds. You can really hear the difference between the two used devices.
                              I found it as a good example for this discussion.
                              Damien Garrido

                              Comment


                                #46
                                I am talking about volume curves not about the sound recordings themselves. The PMDG recordings are good, but the have to adjust the curve in the range 30-50%.

                                Malte Dietsch

                                Comment


                                  #47
                                  Originally posted by squashplayer View Post
                                  I am talking about volume curves not about the sound recordings themselves. The PMDG recordings are good, but the have to adjust the curve in the range 30-50%.

                                  Malte Dietsch
                                  What volume curve? You want levels changed on individual tracks? Certain frequencies? Equalizations, which by the way are significantly influenced by your speaker system and sound settings? Need a few more specifics.
                                  Last edited by Falcon99; 27Nov2022, 22:42.
                                  George Morris

                                  Comment


                                    #48
                                    Does anybody know if those "improvements" have been added to the lineup yet or are we still awaiting those sound updates?
                                    Nick L.

                                    Comment


                                      #49
                                      I like the pmdg sound very much, the only thing im missing a bit is the "speed feeling" through sound on takeoff or approach.
                                      A bit "shaking" sound, maybe a bit more tire sound, dont know how to describe.
                                      And that engine "howling" on 85%+..
                                      A takeoff or landing with the IXEG for example (i know, its not a 738) is pure adrenalin just by the sound..

                                      But as u guys said, its all subjective.. its just a pity to get not that "kick" on takeoff i know from other aircrafts like IXEG / Zibo and so on.

                                      Comment


                                        #50
                                        The only sound problem I have is that when you start the engines and push back (manually), the sound of the engine seems to come out the wrong side.

                                        For example, if I start right engine (number 2) first and I'm using exterior view and looking at the plane from the nose, I should hear engine sound from left side speaker (number 2 engine is to my left) but instead it sounds like it's coming from the right.
                                        Ching Charng

                                        Comment


                                          #51
                                          There will never be any settling this. There are simply too many variables.

                                          First off all, simmers don't really want the exact 1:1 auditory experience of piloting a 737 these days... Because it's very dull. It's dull because we're all wearing noise cancelling headsets, and so you don't hear much at all except a low background hum and comms. Obviously this is intentional, but if the sim sounded like this, folks would be howling about the missing soundest.

                                          But in the sim, I want the engine noise and the air noise, because these are surrogates for the missing sensory experience - I can't feel the energy state of the aircraft. I want the unrealistic wheel squeak on touchdown, because I cannot feel it and it's nice to know when I'm on the ground. And so on.

                                          And then there's the variation in personal experience - everyone is wearing a different brand of headset, the headsets fit against their ears differently and thus conduct sound differently; every cockpit sounds different even without headsets because of the variance between airplanes of recirc fan strength and air distribution... and a million other little details that change with every combination of pilot, headset, and airframe.

                                          So even if simmers did want an exact 1:1 recreation of the auditory environment... there's not really any such thing. There's no one collection of sounds that could be considered "realistic", because they'd likely be different if you recorded them in the airplane next door.

                                          I personally like the PMDG sounds quite a bit, but if I didn't, I'd be careful about demanding a change based on my own perception of what might be "realistic." And I mean, I fly the things. If I were just going off a YouTube video recorded with a cell phone mic and horribly compressed... Yikes. 😉
                                          Andrew Crowley

                                          Comment


                                            #52
                                            Originally posted by Stearmandriver View Post
                                            There will never be any settling this. There are simply too many variables.

                                            First off all, simmers don't really want the exact 1:1 auditory experience of piloting a 737 these days... Because it's very dull. It's dull because we're all wearing noise cancelling headsets, and so you don't hear much at all except a low background hum and comms. Obviously this is intentional, but if the sim sounded like this, folks would be howling about the missing soundest.

                                            But in the sim, I want the engine noise and the air noise, because these are surrogates for the missing sensory experience - I can't feel the energy state of the aircraft. I want the unrealistic wheel squeak on touchdown, because I cannot feel it and it's nice to know when I'm on the ground. And so on.

                                            And then there's the variation in personal experience - everyone is wearing a different brand of headset, the headsets fit against their ears differently and thus conduct sound differently; every cockpit sounds different even without headsets because of the variance between airplanes of recirc fan strength and air distribution... and a million other little details that change with every combination of pilot, headset, and airframe.

                                            So even if simmers did want an exact 1:1 recreation of the auditory environment... there's not really any such thing. There's no one collection of sounds that could be considered "realistic", because they'd likely be different if you recorded them in the airplane next door.

                                            I personally like the PMDG sounds quite a bit, but if I didn't, I'd be careful about demanding a change based on my own perception of what might be "realistic." And I mean, I fly the things. If I were just going off a YouTube video recorded with a cell phone mic and horribly compressed... Yikes. 😉
                                            I don't know about anybody else, but for me, there are certain sounds that are missing that would bring the aircraft to life a bit more. I created a post not too long ago talking about the engine fuel/air rushing sound when adding thrust. Seeing that you fly the aircraft I know that you know what I'm talking about. Now, this is mainly a cabin sound, however, PMDG has stated before they do want to create a cabin experience as well, and we have seen in recent updates that this is the case. I could post a video if you would like for example, but I'll leave that out for now.
                                            Nick L.

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