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PMDG 737 Engine Sounds and sounds in general need improving

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    PMDG 737 Engine Sounds and sounds in general need improving

    Just gonna get straight to the point.. the sounds in the pmdg 737 sound nothing like a real 737-800 it isn't hard to see the difference, just simply watch a YouTube video and compare the sounds, The things I find satisfying the most about aviation is sounds and wingflex and I've already posted a topic about the wingflex earlier on but now I'm talking about the sounds, I don't know how to describe it but the engine spool up and buzz sounds just don't sound right, as I said you can watch a youtube video to see the difference. Also the sounds when sitting over the wing need work like the fuel pump sounds, engine spool up sounds, flaps sounds etc they all need tuning. As I said in my last topic about the wingflex I think PMDG need to work on the visual and immersion side of the aircraft rather than mainly systems. I honestly havent seen a major difference between the 700, and the 800 the only difference I could see is that they added a flashlight thing in the cockpit, instead of focusing on the main issues like I've mentioned in my last 2 Topics.

    #2
    Originally posted by AlexMal01 View Post
    Just gonna get straight to the point.. the sounds in the pmdg 737 sound nothing like a real 737-800 it isn't hard to see the difference, just simply watch a YouTube video and compare the sounds, The things I find satisfying the most about aviation is sounds and wingflex and I've already posted a topic about the wingflex earlier on but now I'm talking about the sounds, I don't know how to describe it but the engine spool up and buzz sounds just don't sound right, as I said you can watch a youtube video to see the difference. Also the sounds when sitting over the wing need work like the fuel pump sounds, engine spool up sounds, flaps sounds etc they all need tuning. As I said in my last topic about the wingflex I think PMDG need to work on the visual and immersion side of the aircraft rather than mainly systems. I honestly havent seen a major difference between the 700, and the 800 the only difference I could see is that they added a flashlight thing in the cockpit, instead of focusing on the main issues like I've mentioned in my last 2 Topics.
    There are a couple of B737 pilots on the testing team that may disagree with you. In fact, actual recordings from real world flights have been used for reference. Perhaps you are not happy with the product?
    Dan Downs KCRP
    i7-10700K 32GB 3600MHz 3080Ti

    Comment


    • AlexMal01
      AlexMal01 commented
      Editing a comment
      Yes I'm happy with the product, But the sounds need TUNING, the engine buzz needs more bass/vibrations, and the spool up sounds are just too difficult to explain... obviously people are going to disagree because they don't pay much attention to the detail of the sounds, but when you compare it to a real video of a 737 its obvious it sounds different and that's a fact there's no denying, also you say they used "actual recordings from real world flights" but that doesn't mean it actually sounds like the real recording. The zibo team have managed to get the spool up sounds somewhat correct in xp11 so i know its possible, even though its a completely different sim I've seen it from FTSIM, they made a 737 sound pack which probably took about a week and the spool up sounds sound a little better.. It does baffle me how people can disagree because its quite obvious the sounds aren't perfect

    • AlexMal01
      AlexMal01 commented
      Editing a comment
      Replying to YOUR reply saying "A YouTube video does not sound like the real thing... why should it? Again, we got professional pilots and sound engineers working on this, you need something more than a video off of the internet."

      That is the most nonsense I've ever heard, so your telling me a video on YouTube of a REAL 737 takeoff is not a real 737?? that makes no sense whatsoever, if you have such "professional" engineers working on the sounds then how come they don't sound good, and youtube is just a website with people recording videos, therefore the YouTube videos are real audio from a 737, its not rocket science. It sounds like everyone from the PMDG team cant take a bit of criticism because they think everything is so perfect which is WRONG, maybe instead of biting at me you should see where I'm coming from.

    #3
    While I do agree the wing animations need work I couldn’t disagree more about the sounds. They are excellent and very well made. Probably one of the better sounding add-ons. Judging how a plane sounds from YouTube videos is like trying to figure out the colors in a black and white photograph.

    Comment


    • AlexMal01
      AlexMal01 commented
      Editing a comment
      I'm not saying the sounds are bad but as I said to the guy above, its obvious it doesn't sound like a real 737 and that's a fact.. and sorry but you saying "Judging how a plane sounds from YouTube videos is like trying to figure out the colours in a black and white photograph" is laughable, so your saying a youtube video of a 737 taking off doesn't sound like the real thing? I know people have their own opinions but the only people who are disagreeing with my topic are the ones who don't pay attention to the detail of the sounds and compare them to the real thing.. you probably hear the pmdg 737 sounds and think "oh that sounds good" which they do! but they arent perfect and need tuning to sound like the real thing and thats a fact.

    • DDowns
      DDowns commented
      Editing a comment
      A YouTube video does not sound like the real thing... why should it? Again, we got professional pilots and sound engineers working on this, you need something more than a video off of the internet.

    • Swezam
      Swezam commented
      Editing a comment
      You have no idea how sound works or the complexity of it if you think a GoPro camera or an iPhone accurately records the sounds of a Boeing 737 for your YouTube analysis.

    #4
    Originally posted by DDowns View Post

    There are a couple of B737 pilots on the testing team that may disagree with you. In fact, actual recordings from real world flights have been used for reference. Perhaps you are not happy with the product?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dhe...=BadenAviation Watch that video and skip to 3:00 and then compare it the sound of pmdg 737 then come back to me

    Comment


    • DDowns
      DDowns commented
      Editing a comment
      No YouTube video is an accurate sound source. Are you ignoring the comments refuting your claims altogether? Good luck.

    #5
    Originally posted by AlexMal01 View Post
    Just gonna get straight to the point.. the sounds in the pmdg 737 sound nothing like a real 737-800 it isn't hard to see the difference, just simply watch a YouTube video and compare the sounds, The things I find satisfying the most about aviation is sounds and wingflex and I've already posted a topic about the wingflex earlier on but now I'm talking about the sounds, I don't know how to describe it but the engine spool up and buzz sounds just don't sound right, as I said you can watch a youtube video to see the difference. Also the sounds when sitting over the wing need work like the fuel pump sounds, engine spool up sounds, flaps sounds etc they all need tuning. As I said in my last topic about the wingflex I think PMDG need to work on the visual and immersion side of the aircraft rather than mainly systems. I honestly havent seen a major difference between the 700, and the 800 the only difference I could see is that they added a flashlight thing in the cockpit, instead of focusing on the main issues like I've mentioned in my last 2 Topics.
    I completely agree. Not realistic
    Best,
    Nick Harder

    Comment


      #6
      Alex,

      While I realize you feel the need to post your opinion, I would just like to provide some factual data on how the sound set for the PMDG 737 was actually developed just so perhaps you can understand the process a bit better.

      The sounds in the 737 in the cabin are quite a bit different even from First class than they are from the Flight deck of the aircraft. The data used for sounds on this aircraft was collected using a very high end sound recorder placed in the flight deck of a variety of 737 aircraft over a series of flights. That data was processed by a professional sound engineer for implementation into the sim based on a lot of feedback from a team or real world 737 pilots and technicians. Those pilots and technicians were instrumental in the feedback to ensure it sounded correct for the Flight deck station and many adjustments and tweaks were made to make it as close to how the real aircraft sounded as possible.

      While Youtube is very entertaining, using it to develop a soundset is not something I would recommend.
      Paul Gollnick
      PMDG Technical Support
      Support.PMDG.com

      Comment


        #7
        Originally posted by Jet Tech View Post
        Alex,

        While I realize you feel the need to post your opinion, I would just like to provide some factual data on how the sound set for the PMDG 737 was actually developed just so perhaps you can understand the process a bit better.

        The sounds in the 737 in the cabin are quite a bit different even from First class than they are from the Flight deck of the aircraft. The data used for sounds on this aircraft was collected using a very high end sound recorder placed in the flight deck of a variety of 737 aircraft over a series of flights. That data was processed by a professional sound engineer for implementation into the sim based on a lot of feedback from a team or real world 737 pilots and technicians. Those pilots and technicians were instrumental in the feedback to ensure it sounded correct for the Flight deck station and many adjustments and tweaks were made to make it as close to how the real aircraft sounded as possible.

        While Youtube is very entertaining, using it to develop a soundset is not something I would recommend.
        Thank you for this. In the future, if someone wants to make claims that the sounds are unrealistic I expect them to get full access to a 737 and use a high end sound recorder to prove their point. Using a Youtube video as a basis for analysis is like a slap in the face to the work that's been done by the sound engineers.

        Comment


          #8
          Originally posted by Jet Tech View Post
          Alex,

          While I realize you feel the need to post your opinion, I would just like to provide some factual data on how the sound set for the PMDG 737 was actually developed just so perhaps you can understand the process a bit better.

          The sounds in the 737 in the cabin are quite a bit different even from First class than they are from the Flight deck of the aircraft. The data used for sounds on this aircraft was collected using a very high end sound recorder placed in the flight deck of a variety of 737 aircraft over a series of flights. That data was processed by a professional sound engineer for implementation into the sim based on a lot of feedback from a team or real world 737 pilots and technicians. Those pilots and technicians were instrumental in the feedback to ensure it sounded correct for the Flight deck station and many adjustments and tweaks were made to make it as close to how the real aircraft sounded as possible.

          While Youtube is very entertaining, using it to develop a soundset is not something I would recommend.
          I'm sure a lot of work went into it. The cabin sounds seem to have carried over some cockpit sounds to it. The cabin is more of a muffled/quieter sound if that makes sense. Another thing is the further you are from the wings, the flap motor sound should completely disappear which they don't. The sounds can use some tweaking for sure.
          Tony Fontaine

          Comment


            #9
            Originally posted by AlexMal01 View Post

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dhe...=BadenAviation Watch that video and skip to 3:00 and then compare it the sound of pmdg 737 then come back to me
            That video is pretty accurate actually.
            Tony Fontaine

            Comment


              #10
              What is important is that any recording uses a studio quality microphone and at least 24 bit /96 Khz recording sampling. I hardly think the average smart phone can even come close to that criteria, and the bit rate of a YT video is going to be much less................ So comparing a YT video to the sim is stupid beyond words.
              A professional sound engineer who has worked in studios all his life made the recordings aboard real aircraft, so who do I believe ?
              Eddie Zetlein, Surrey.

              Comment


                #11
                Originally posted by Jet Tech View Post
                Alex,

                While I realize you feel the need to post your opinion, I would just like to provide some factual data on how the sound set for the PMDG 737 was actually developed just so perhaps you can understand the process a bit better.

                The sounds in the 737 in the cabin are quite a bit different even from First class than they are from the Flight deck of the aircraft. The data used for sounds on this aircraft was collected using a very high end sound recorder placed in the flight deck of a variety of 737 aircraft over a series of flights. That data was processed by a professional sound engineer for implementation into the sim based on a lot of feedback from a team or real world 737 pilots and technicians. Those pilots and technicians were instrumental in the feedback to ensure it sounded correct for the Flight deck station and many adjustments and tweaks were made to make it as close to how the real aircraft sounded as possible.

                While Youtube is very entertaining, using it to develop a soundset is not something I would recommend.
                I was using a youtube video as reference, and as I've flown on many 737's I know the pmdg sounds arent perfect, I don't know what it is but its just not correct, the sounds need tweaking, you should have seen the pre release twitch/youtube streams of the 737-700 and the comments were just full of people saying the sounds aren't good and wingflex isnt good etc, so I'm not the only one who thinks the sounds aren't correct.

                Comment


                  #12
                  Originally posted by Dr_Eddie View Post
                  What is important is that any recording uses a studio quality microphone and at least 24 bit /96 Khz recording sampling. I hardly think the average smart phone can even come close to that criteria, and the bit rate of a YT video is going to be much less................ So comparing a YT video to the sim is stupid beyond words.
                  A professional sound engineer who has worked in studios all his life made the recordings aboard real aircraft, so who do I believe ?
                  As i said to the other guy, ive flown on many 737's and I know for a fact they need tweaking, something isnt right, maybe it needs more Bass/ engine sound pitch tweaks? I'm no sound engineer but I have ears and i know that it needs Tuning for sure.

                  Comment


                    #13
                    Originally posted by captbillybob View Post

                    I'm sure a lot of work went into it. The cabin sounds seem to have carried over some cockpit sounds to it. The cabin is more of a muffled/quieter sound if that makes sense. Another thing is the further you are from the wings, the flap motor sound should completely disappear which they don't. The sounds can use some tweaking for sure.
                    Hi Tony,

                    They actually do disappear with distance - thats why you cannot hear them in the cockpit.

                    Can you provide a video showing the problem - simply click WIN + G to record a video.

                    Armen Cholakian
                    PMDG Sound Engineer

                    Comment


                      #14
                      Originally posted by AlexMal01 View Post

                      As i said to the other guy, ive flown on many 737's and I know for a fact they need tweaking, something isnt right, maybe it needs more Bass/ engine sound pitch tweaks? I'm no sound engineer but I have ears and i know that it needs Tuning for sure.
                      Hi Alex and others,

                      Can you first make sure that you have the following settings as shown in the two screenshots in red.


                      Secondly - can you provide a video of your issue, so we can hear the problem from your side - simply click WIN + G to record a video.


                      sound-settings-1.png sound-settings-2.png
                      Armen Cholakian
                      PMDG Sound Engineer

                      Comment


                        #15
                        Originally posted by captbillybob View Post

                        That video is pretty accurate actually.
                        Unfortunately that video is NOT accurate - its recorded with a low quality device and is missing much of the high end frequencies and tonality compared to the real thing - I could find you many other youtube videos of the same takeoff which don't sound like that. The problem is, as mentioned, far too many assumptions are being made by listening to youtube videos which do not give a correct audio representation of what is going on. On top of that - millions of combinations of soundcards and low quality speakers and incorrect audio settings just amplifies the dissatisfaction that is being experienced by a very small number of customers.

                        I am here to tweak and change as much as is necessary to continually improve the sounds, but we first have to make sure that we are on the same level playing field.

                        Armen Cholakian
                        PMDG Sound Engineer

                        Comment


                        • Hirthflieger
                          Hirthflieger commented
                          Editing a comment
                          Hi Armen,
                          Thanks for you input here. I don’t have any professional recording equipment but I’m spending something around 800 flying hours p.a. on this bird.
                          Can we talk about some sounds that really need some improvement? I would like to mention the sound of the nosewheel to start with. As soon as you lift the nose of the ground the sound of the wheel rotating seems to stop. In reality you can hear how the feels continues to spin and you obviously feel some vibration too. When the wheel than enters the wheelwell there is a very loud sound caused by the snubbers that reduce the speed of the wheel. Those sounds are entirely missing.
                          Let me know what you think please.

                        #16
                        Armen,
                        The sounds from the cockpit are a masterpiece! you have outdone yourself. Please don't change them.
                        Jacob Fuqua

                        Comment


                          #17
                          Originally posted by captbillybob View Post

                          That video is pretty accurate actually.
                          No offence whatsoever but if you think the pmdg 737 sounds exactly like that then you need to get your ears looked at.

                          Comment


                            #18
                            Originally posted by AlexMal01 View Post

                            No offence whatsoever but if you think the pmdg 737 sounds exactly like that then you need to get your ears looked at.
                            That's not what I said. I was defending your post saying the video is more accurate. What the hell is wrong with people on this forum?
                            Tony Fontaine

                            Comment


                              #19
                              I will agree to a certain extent. While yes, the sounds from the flight deck were recorded at a very high level of detail - was this also the case from the cabin? I do doubt it. I would safely say 80% of people here don't know what a 737 sounds like from a flight deck and only know it from a passenger side.

                              I flew on one literally only last week - with any aircraft, sounds vary depending on where you are in the cabin - directly over the wing there is a very distinctive, typical CFM whine (almost A320 sounding) - but this is only really heard directly over the wing. And not the whine that’s already there - it’s a lower pitch whine separate to that of when you spool down to idle.

                              One thing that is DEFINITELY missing, is that "gushing" sound from the engine as you spool up from idle (typically heard on CFM engines). It's a very distinct feature of CFM engines and I'd love to see that added.

                              Fuel pumps, hydraulics, APU all sounds unbelievable now and a huge improvement. However, again, these hydraulic sounds and fuel pump sounds are waaaay too quiet in the cabin. These are literally the only 2 sounds you can hear in a 737 cabin. I questioned this the other day and a sound engineer said that they do intend to change these sounds and increase volumes however.

                              As a summary, I think it's quite obvious cabin sounds need a small bit of work but are still a huge improvement over what they used to be.

                              Greg Clifford
                              Last edited by gregc320; 31Aug2022, 11:02.

                              Comment


                                #20
                                Originally posted by AlexMal01 View Post
                                maybe it needs more Bass/ engine sound pitch tweaks?
                                can't say i've been in the flight deck of a real one to compare so i typically don't comment on these type of threads, but i'm curious what kind of speakers are you using? the engines absolutely rumble with bass on my system especially on startup when i flip the fuel switch.. i was actually really impressed with how much bass there is, seemed like a big difference compared to the fsx 737, so i'm sort of surprised that you would pick that out.

                                perhaps one factor is that i have fairly good studio monitors that are pretty flat down to around 30Hz so maybe i'm just getting a more accurate sound. perhaps it would sound more like you are expecting with some bigger cones or a subwoofer?

                                cheers,-andy crosby

                                Comment


                                  #21
                                  Originally posted by spesimen View Post

                                  can't say i've been in the flight deck of a real one to compare so i typically don't comment on these type of threads, but i'm curious what kind of speakers are you using? the engines absolutely rumble with bass on my system especially on startup when i flip the fuel switch.. i was actually really impressed with how much bass there is, seemed like a big difference compared to the fsx 737, so i'm sort of surprised that you would pick that out.

                                  perhaps one factor is that i have fairly good studio monitors that are pretty flat down to around 30Hz so maybe i'm just getting a more accurate sound. perhaps it would sound more like you are expecting with some bigger cones or a subwoofer?

                                  cheers,-andy crosby
                                  Hey, when I said "maybe it needs more bass?" I was pretty much guessing because I'm not exactly sure what needs tweaking but all I know is that it doesn't sound perfect.. as I said I'm no sound engineer so I think maybe a more realistic guess would be that the engine pitches need tuning a little bit rather than bass?

                                  Comment


                                    #22
                                    Originally posted by captbillybob View Post

                                    That's not what I said. I was defending your post saying the video is more accurate. What the hell is wrong with people on this forum?
                                    Thats why i said "no offence at all" just incase you were not backing my opinion, sorry about that

                                    Comment


                                      #23
                                      Originally posted by gregc320 View Post
                                      I will agree to a certain extent. While yes, the sounds from the flight deck were recorded at a very high level of detail - was this also the case from the cabin? I do doubt it. I would safely say 80% of people here don't know what a 737 sounds like from a flight deck and only know it from a passenger side.

                                      I flew on one literally only last week - with any aircraft, sounds vary depending on where you are in the cabin - directly over the wing there is a very distinctive, typical CFM whine (almost A320 sounding) - but this is only really heard directly over the wing.

                                      One thing that is DEFINITELY missing, is that "gushing" sound from the engine as you spool up from idle (typically heard on CFM engines). It's a very distinct feature of CFM engines and I'd love to see that added.

                                      Fuel pumps, hydraulics, APU all sounds unbelievable now and a huge improvement. However, again, these hydraulic sounds and fuel pump sounds are waaaay too quiet in the cabin. These are literally the only 2 sounds you can hear in a 737 cabin. I questioned this the other day and a sound engineer said that they do intend to change these sounds and increase volumes however.

                                      As a summary, I think it's quite obvious cabin sounds need a small bit of work but are still a huge improvement over what they used to be.

                                      Greg Clifford
                                      THANKYOU, well said.

                                      Comment


                                        #24
                                        AlexMal01 I totally agree with you. Please see also my post on this subject:



                                        Well the MSFS PMDG 737 soundset is quite good, but some key aspects are not correct or missing.

                                        - Basically, the characteristic "spool sound" from idle to 40% is missing which is really a pity. Because it would add so much to the immersion. And I think it cannot be that hard to implement it. Fenix has it.

                                        - The jet whine sound from idle to 40% becomes too loud too quickly. In the lower range it should be a little more silent.

                                        Regards

                                        Malte Dietsch

                                        Comment


                                          #25
                                          Originally posted by squashplayer View Post
                                          AlexMal01 I totally agree with you. Please see also my post on this subject:



                                          Well the MSFS PMDG 737 soundset is quite good, but some key aspects are not correct or missing.

                                          - Basically, the characteristic "spool sound" from idle to 40% is missing which is really a pity. Because it would add so much to the immersion. And I think it cannot be that hard to implement it. Fenix has it.

                                          - The jet whine sound from idle to 40% becomes too loud too quickly. In the lower range it should be a little more silent.

                                          Regards

                                          Malte Dietsch
                                          Totally agree, although I doubt the pmdg team care about my topic to be honest.

                                          Comment


                                            #26
                                            Just to be clear. Compared to P3D, this version is way better. At least you don't have external sounds anymore in the cabin. I'll have to check again with the flaps motor sounds because I noticed from different areas of the cabin you can hear them. That's during watching a video though not in real time. Should it make a difference?
                                            Tony Fontaine

                                            Comment


                                              #27
                                              I can‘t speak for others but I don‘t want to pay for the time someone needs for an extensive passenger simulation.. for the sound engineer it would probably double the time to do the cabin at the same level as the cockpit. 80€ is certainly enough for the -800.
                                              Ryzen 9 5900X, RX 6900XT, 32GB DDR4 RAM @3600MHz, 4k
                                              Marc Eland
                                              GFO Beta

                                              Comment


                                                #28
                                                Originally posted by Ephedrin View Post
                                                I can‘t speak for others but I don‘t want to pay for the time someone needs for an extensive passenger simulation.. for the sound engineer it would probably double the time to do the cabin at the same level as the cockpit. 80€ is certainly enough for the -800.
                                                They said they recorded cabin sounds. It's apparently important to PMDG.
                                                Tony Fontaine

                                                Comment


                                                  #29
                                                  That's why I said "extensive passenger simulation". The world of PMDG is the Cockpit and the job that's done there. The rest is additional content but not highest priority, obviously.
                                                  Ryzen 9 5900X, RX 6900XT, 32GB DDR4 RAM @3600MHz, 4k
                                                  Marc Eland
                                                  GFO Beta

                                                  Comment


                                                    #30
                                                    Yes ok I can agree with that, Ephedrin. Maybe one cannot expect a super professional soundset delivered with the aircraft. If there was a soundset by BSS I would buy it immediately.

                                                    But unfortunately, due to the WWise Sound Engine used in MSFS, it is more complicated to make 3rd party soundsets. But I hope someone makes it.

                                                    Comment

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