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PMDG - Frame drop on exterior?

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    PMDG - Frame drop on exterior?

    Hello,

    Im having an odd issue, I tried to see with other addon aircraft like Fenix A320 and Aerosoft CRJ but seem to be only having this issue on the PMDG 737 series... When in virtual cockpit the FPS is fine, but for whatever reason in the exterior view, the FPS drop significantly and its stuttery with low FPS... not sure what is going on. Im running settings on ultra in MSFS and havent had this issue before with other aircraft. I thought GSX was the culprit and when I uninstalled it, it didnt fix anything. Let me know if you need any more info

    Specs:
    i7 11700k 3.6Ghz
    NVIDIA GTX 2060Ti
    Z590 Pro Wifi Motherboard
    16GB DDR4 RAM

    Thanks
    Luc Gaupin
    Last edited by lgaupin; 25Aug2022, 18:37.

    #2
    Here is an example... See how in external its choppy and low FPS, but internal its smooth? Not sure what to do, I only have this issue in the -800



    Thanks,
    Luc Gaupin
    Last edited by lgaupin; 25Aug2022, 20:22.

    Comment


      #3
      How much of a drop are we talking about?

      edit: just saw the video. It looks very laggy. Is GSX or the scenery the issue? Do you experience the same thing in the air, or without GSX or at another airport?
      - John Svensson

      Comment


      • Swezam
        Swezam commented
        Editing a comment
        Well something is off then because this should not be the case. If anything you should have about the same or better frames on the outside. Have you tried reinstalling the aircraft?

      • lgaupin
        lgaupin commented
        Editing a comment
        I have not tried reinstalling the aircraft, i guess I should try that... ill have to report back. Theres a discord channel im in, someone mentioned theyre having similar problems, I asked them if they could share their FPS experience too with this, so hopefully we hear what their issue might be... but I will have to try and reinstall the aircraft

        Thanks,
        Luc Gaupin

      • Swezam
        Swezam commented
        Editing a comment
        Good luck!

      #4
      Hello, I think I'm having a similar issue, if you look away from the plane while in drone camera, does you FPS go back to normal or stay low?

      Comment


        #5
        Same here, I have an FPS drop outside as soon as I get close to the plane. I tested with the Fenix A320 and I don't have this problem.

        Manuel
        Manuel TRAMARD
        i7 9900k @ 5,0 GHz - 16 Go de RAM - RTX 2080 Ti - SSD M.2 1T

        Comment


          #6
          Same here for me...

          Comment


            #7
            Same for me. Extremely smooth in the cockpit and looking away from the exterior. In the cockpit at FlyTampa vegas I get 30fps. Once I go outside and look at the plane the fps drops to 23fps. If I use the drone cam and look away from the aircraft the fps is 36fps. When I turn to look at the aircraft the fps drops to 25fps.
            Nick L.

            Comment


              #8
              I have the same issue. I believe it started after they updated the virtual cabin to a higher detail model, just my theory tho... cockpit is completely smooth as always
              Tobias Nome

              Comment


                #9
                I'm 99% sure it is the new 3d cabin improvement, for me the cargo varient is perfectly smooth FPS wise. I would recommend you to try the cargo varient to see if you are the same as me.

                Comment


                  #10
                  Absolutely no issues for me. I loaded up the pax version at a gate at FlyTampa's McCarran: 37 - 41 fps sitting in the cockpit with the plane powered up on the GPU looking straight ahead. Went to the drone cam - looking at the plane from close up, pointed toward the terminal: 40 - 42 fps. Looking at the nose of the plane close up pointed toward the super-detailed, animated Vegas Strip: 40 - 42 fps.
                  Herb Schaltegger - Father, husband, lawyer, engineer & getting too old for this $#!t. Do Not Taunt Happy Fun Ball!TM.

                  Comment


                    #11
                    I am having the exact same issue and I am also 99% sure it has to do with the pax cabin improvement. I only have this issue with the -700 and -800 pax variants and the BBJ/cargo variants work fine.

                    Here are my PC specs:
                    Intel Core i7-8750H
                    GTX 1060 3GB
                    16 GB RAM

                    My PC is a little on the low end but I can run the PMDG 737 at 30 fps in the VC looking forward in most settings with MSFS set to High.

                    Exterior fps tends to improve once I reach cruising altitude. Is there a way to select lower fidelity pax cabins for lower end PCs?
                    Louis Spier

                    Comment


                    • cedrice.rive@yahoo.fr
                      [email protected] commented
                      Editing a comment
                      well done, that's the kind of thing I turn off first, I watch it once and turn it off.

                      *I just hope that PMDG will not listen to these enlightened people that they want a detailed vc in external view.

                    • Mdegree2
                      Mdegree2 commented
                      Editing a comment
                      I sent a support asking them if it you could select a lower modeled cabin, but they said it wasn't possible.

                    #12
                    I know all this is a sad reality most users want candy eyes, cabin with magazine on their knees. I don't know to read maybe. Who knows

                    People don't care about having this or that equipment in the cockpit like the Gables XPDR G6990-51 avionics suites or the G7501-01 Radio nav.
                    These things are so much more important to me.
                    Cédrice Rive 747, MD11, 737, 777

                    Comment


                      #13
                      I find it very hard to believe that it is the cabin causing this. The update to the cabin happened a long time ago, even before the 600 was released and these reports are just now coming in.

                      Also, the cabin you see from the exterior is not THAT detailed. It’s actually a very low poly version of the cabin that is meant to be seen only in external view. There are other addons with far more detailed exterior models and cabins (like the Fenix A320) that don’t cause this issue.

                      Another thing to factor in is that the cabin is also loaded when you are in the cockpit. In fact, you have much more geometry and textures loaded when you are in the VC compared to when you are in external view so theoretically your fps should be much much worse in the VC if this was an issue of “too much detail”. There is something else going on that causes this issue. Trust me, there is plenty of headroom in the PMDG product before you can even say “too detailed”.

                      I am not experiencing this problem.
                      Last edited by Swezam; 27Aug2022, 07:36.
                      - John Svensson

                      Comment


                        #14
                        To compliment my previous post here are some actual statistics:

                        In external view you basically have two models loaded. One external (purple) and one internal (green). The external model has about 1 600 000 polygons while the interior model has 37 000 polygons. This brings the total amount of polygons to about 1 637 000 in the external view.
                        Microsoft Flight Simulator Screenshot 2022.08.27 - 09.33.57.94.png

                        In the interior view you also have two models loaded. One is the virtual cockpit and one is the exterior (wings, fuselage, engines, cabin, etc.). You can see that the exterior model also has 1 600 000 polygons in this view and that the virtual cockpit has 2 170 000 polygons. This brings the total amount of polygons in interior view to 3 770 000.
                        Microsoft Flight Simulator Screenshot 2022.08.27 - 09.33.38.71.png

                        What I have demonstrated here is that when you are sitting in the cockpit your sim is actually loading and running more than double the amount of polygons compared to the external view (130% more to be exact). Yet, you are reporting that the external view has bad FPS because it's "too detailed". This is far from the truth. In fact, someone posted that they aren't experiencing this issue with the Fenix A320. The Fenix has more than three times the amount of polygons as the PMDG 737. So before you start sending PMDG tickets about downgrading the graphics, maybe you should consider that there is something else causing this on your system. The models are not too detailed. In fact, I am praying they will add more detail in the future.
                        - John Svensson

                        Comment


                        • tobiasnome
                          tobiasnome commented
                          Editing a comment
                          I appreciate the thoroug testing, but I can only assume that there must be something else than polygon count alone that's causing the problem...

                        • Swezam
                          Swezam commented
                          Editing a comment
                          I’m not disagree with you. My initial point was in answer to the exterior model being “too detailed”. Well in a graphics engine detail is poly count. I have shown that isn’t the issue. There can be multiple other reasons.

                        • tobiasnome
                          tobiasnome commented
                          Editing a comment
                          That's true. I would neither claim that the exterior is "too detailed". Thanks for taking time to try and resolve this!

                        #15
                        Swezam Your theory is dead as long as the Freighter and BBJ version doesn't have this fps leak, plus a striking clue is that the -700 is less prone to fps loss.
                        I think the person asked for a way to disable the cabin (as in others) and not a graphical downgrade.
                        However I'm sure PMDG is aware of this issue, and will do everything to fix it.
                        Cédrice Rive 747, MD11, 737, 777

                        Comment


                          #16
                          Originally posted by [email protected] View Post
                          Swezam Your theory is dead as long as the Freighter and BBJ version doesn't have this fps leak, plus a striking clue is that the -700 is less prone to fps loss.
                          I think the person asked for a way to disable the cabin (as in others) and not a graphical downgrade.
                          However I'm sure PMDG is aware of this issue, and will do everything to fix it.
                          And I can argue that your theory is equally dead since I and many others like me are not experiencing this issue at all. I even get higher FPS in external view. The point I am trying to make is we do not know exactly what it is that causes this problem for some of you. Making baseless speculative claims is pointless.

                          Funny you should bring up the BBJ because the external model with the BBJ cabin is more detailed than the pax version coming in at 1.72 million polygons compared to the pax version at 1.67 million polygons.
                          Last edited by Swezam; 27Aug2022, 10:30.
                          - John Svensson

                          Comment


                          • cedrice.rive@yahoo.fr
                            [email protected] commented
                            Editing a comment
                            So you may not have tried to watch the plane in drone camera mode.
                            No speculation.

                          • Swezam
                            Swezam commented
                            Editing a comment
                            I have watched it with the drone.

                          #17
                          I have done some testing and I have some of my FPS to share, this was done at Macco simulations Birmingham at the same gate, same time, same everything. (FPS Locket at 30)

                          B738 Passenger
                          In the cockpit looking forwards - 28
                          In the cockpit looking toward cockpit door - 24
                          External looking directly at plane - 24
                          External looking away from plane - 30

                          B738 Cargo
                          In the cockpit looking forwards - 29
                          In the cockpit looking toward cockpit door - 30
                          External looking directly at plane - 30
                          External looking away from plane - 30

                          A20N with FBW mod installed, (Just for reference to another plane)
                          In the cockpit looking forwards - 30
                          In the cockpit looking toward cockpit door - 30
                          External looking directly at plane - 30
                          External looking away from plane - 30

                          Comment


                            #18
                            This test result is key. I recreated the scenario and got a similar result. To me this is further evidence that it is something with the new cabin that is not fully optimized.

                            To put it in another way, this is the first time on my rig that I have had problems running a pmdg product...


                            - And when did it start? With the arrival of the updated cabin
                            - Did I change my setup in any way? No
                            - Has it started to occur on other aircraft in parallel? No
                            - Do I only get frame drops when in exterior view or facing the cabin in the vc (pax version)? Yes

                            Great to see other people corroberate my theory, and I hope this thread will prompt pmdg to investigate this further. As someone stated above, we do not want a downgrade in quality over all, but maybe an option to disable the cabin or to choose between this and the older lower quality version.
                            Tobias Nome

                            Comment


                            • cedrice.rive@yahoo.fr
                              [email protected] commented
                              Editing a comment
                              I use the external view very little, however I noticed that I had a better rate with the external view (classic) than with the drone mode.
                              If that can help you. Waiting.

                            • tobiasnome
                              tobiasnome commented
                              Editing a comment
                              I see very little difference (if at all) between classic exterior view and drone mode, but I too use exterior view pretty seldom. Still frustrating tho...

                            #19
                            Here's a little more information from my side

                            When I first got the 737-700 on release in May, I could get 30 fps in most situations with MSFS at High settings (I do not have any payware airports or any other modifications to the default MSFS environment). When I updated the 737-700 back in June or July, fps dropped to about 15 in exterior view with the pax variant only (no issues with BBJ or freighter). When looking forward in the VC I held around 30 fps but it would drop to about 15 when looking to the rear towards the pax cabin.

                            I then uninstalled the 737-700 and installed the release version from May from the original download file I had saved to my PC, which resolved the fps issue I described above. I then updated again to the latest version with PMDG Operations Center and the same issue came back.

                            I just installed the 737-800 and I get around 12 instead of 15 fps in exterior view for pax variant, maybe because there are more seats in a -800 than a -700? VC in the 738 works fine and I can fly almost anywhere with decent fps as long as I don't look outside or to the back of the VC. BBJ2 and 738 Freighter variants do not have this issue.

                            Here are my PC specs again if anyone is interested:
                            Intel core i7-8750H
                            GTX 1060 3GB
                            16 GB RAM
                            1 TB HDD
                            Louis Spier

                            Comment


                            • tobiasnome
                              tobiasnome commented
                              Editing a comment
                              Exactly the same here. I dont have the best pc, but its great (you know what I mean) to see people like you with way better systems experience the same as me.

                            #20
                            What do you guys think.... is it better for us to send support tickets or to keep posting here? I assume PMDG must be aware of the matter at this point...
                            Tobias Nome

                            Comment


                              #21
                              Yep, same here. Performance is normal (for me that's around 30 fps), except when viewing (any view) towards the cabin. That results in a 10-15fps drop. The Business and cargo-versions don't do this. So, for the time being, i fly cargo. 😉
                              I'm sure PMDG is aware of this issue.

                              Comment


                                #22
                                Originally posted by tobiasnome View Post
                                What do you guys think.... is it better for us to send support tickets or to keep posting here? I assume PMDG must be aware of the matter at this point...
                                If you want to make sure PMDG sees it, it would be best to submit a support ticket. Mods have stated on numerous occasions that the support ticket is the only way it would be entered in their bug tracking system.
                                Michael Sill

                                Comment


                                  #23
                                  Agreed. Ticket submitted.
                                  Tobias Nome

                                  Comment


                                  • tobiasnome
                                    tobiasnome commented
                                    Editing a comment
                                    They were gonna forward the information for further investigation, so I felt taken quite seriously. Fingers crossed for a fix

                                  • lgaupin
                                    lgaupin commented
                                    Editing a comment
                                    Awesome to hear

                                    Thanks,
                                    Luc Gaupin
                                    Last edited by lgaupin; 31Aug2022, 12:49.

                                  • Mdegree2
                                    Mdegree2 commented
                                    Editing a comment
                                    Sorry to be a pain, but has there been any more said about this?

                                  #24
                                  same here for me...

                                  both for B737-800 and B737-BBJ2

                                  but: only on very crowded airport /EDDF)!

                                  Comment


                                    #25
                                    Having the same issue with the 800 pax version, but have it only seen at Tailstrike's Bergamo. BBJ does not have this issue nor does the 800 pax at any other addon airport i've been to so far. Will also issue a support ticket.
                                    Kind Regards,

                                    Harm Swinkels

                                    PMDG 747/737/777

                                    Comment


                                      #26
                                      I'm curious to know if the character of the issue has changed for other people with this issue. For me it did. First it was only when viewing towards cabin. And fps stayed low, while viewing towards cabin.
                                      Now i have sharp fps-drops with every view change. And, although fps now recovers, i have overal much lower fps since last update. First i was gpu limited, now i'm (very) cpu limited. Have to do more testing to understand what's going on, because currently performance isn't any better than FBW's for me.

                                      Jan Hes

                                      Comment


                                        #27
                                        When you select a limit of 30 fps the stuttering disappears. Please try this
                                        Cédrice Rive 747, MD11, 737, 777

                                        Comment


                                        • tobiasnome
                                          tobiasnome commented
                                          Editing a comment
                                          Limting fps never used to give me much advantage, but I will certainly give it a shot

                                        • cedrice.rive@yahoo.fr
                                          [email protected] commented
                                          Editing a comment
                                          This totally solved the problem for me.
                                          Then I wait to see what 30fps is worth during a fast and low flight.

                                        #28
                                        Originally posted by NoBlue View Post
                                        I'm curious to know if the character of the issue has changed for other people with this issue. For me it did. First it was only when viewing towards cabin. And fps stayed low, while viewing towards cabin.
                                        Now i have sharp fps-drops with every view change. And, although fps now recovers, i have overal much lower fps since last update. First i was gpu limited, now i'm (very) cpu limited. Have to do more testing to understand what's going on, because currently performance isn't any better than FBW's for me.

                                        Jan Hes
                                        That's certainly interesting. My problems have stayed the same throughout the last couple of months, but this is noteworthy
                                        Tobias Nome

                                        Comment


                                          #29
                                          Glad to see I am not the only one.

                                          Happened me twice recently, got huge fps drops when switching to external view, both times it was after landing, during taxi to gate.

                                          737-800 pax variants, once at LEMD (lvfr) and the other time at Flytampa Las Vegas.

                                          FPS perfectly fine in cockpit (about 35-40 don’t remember exactly) and huge drope to 8-15 fps until it goes back to normal after few seconds. But it does it again when I switch back to cockpit and switch back again to external view.

                                          I was using one of provided Ryanair and Southwest liveries iirc.

                                          3080
                                          5900X
                                          32 GB ram

                                          so a pretty good rig


                                          Edit : Even watching towards the cabin, while still in cockpit reduces my framerate a lot. It makes the aircraft unusuable,

                                          looking towards the windshield

                                          Screenshot 2022-09-04 16-59-11.png

                                          looking towards the cabin

                                          Screenshot 2022-09-04 17-01-08.png

                                          Hadi Kamar
                                          Last edited by Hadi; 04Sep2022, 16:07.
                                          Hadi Kamar

                                          Comment


                                            #30
                                            Great example. What I find strange is that this is happening to guys such as you with what you indeed say is a pretty good system, but then not to others.
                                            Tobias Nome

                                            Comment

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