First 737-700 flight problems

[JackSwyr]

I just installed MSFS last Friday and have been testing it out and was satisfied that it would be a good time for my usual test flight that I always make in P3D.

This flight in MSFS was not too good. I don't know if it was me or something else. But I have never had these problems in P3D like I've had today.

First, Windows 10, up to date. MSFS is all up to date.

I downloaded and installed the SimBrief app and created a flight plan, KATL to KBOS and had the file sent to the proper flight plan folder.

Set up the flight, loaded the flight plan and gas and set up the plane the way I always did in P3D.

Departed, engaged autopilot and all was well until halfway.

Soon after the WWSHR waypoint to DORET the plane no longer followed the magenta FMS line. It took a while and it swung around in the opposite direction until it reengaged the line. This happened twice after this.

There wee no DISCO's in the legs.

AT TOD it started to descend but then all of a sudden the engines went full throttle and I started to climb despite setting in a much lower altitude before TOD. After this it was nuts, I had to manually fly it to KBOS and landed it manually on ILS 27.

I have the original flight plan I can upload and I also have the paperwork I can read from.

No errors, no CTD's.

Thanks for any help or suggestions.

[DrVenkman]

If you're new to MSFS, chances are you have some sim settings enabled by default that you need to turn off/disable. The first and most significant ones are in the Assistance options - basically, make sure all the Piloting assistance options are set to OFF. Next, go through the Controls options and be 100% sure you don't have any keybinds set that you don't need or intend to use. There are a LOT of them, and it's quite easy to accidentally have conflicting bindings. Last, and I don't recall off-hand which menu it's located under, but be sure your MSFS flight model setting is MODERN, not LEGACY.

[JackSwyr]

If you're new to MSFS, chances are you have some sim settings enabled by default that you need to turn off/disable. The first and most significant ones are in the Assistance options - basically, make sure all the Piloting assistance options are set to OFF. Next, go through the Controls options and be 100% sure you don't have any keybinds set that you don't need or intend to use. There are a LOT of them, and it's quite easy to accidentally have conflicting bindings. Last, and I don't recall off-hand which menu it's located under, but be sure your MSFS flight model setting is MODERN, not LEGACY.

Thanks Dr, Venkman. I just checked on my system there's only two modes, LEGACY and LOCK. It's set to LEGACY. I didn't see MODERN in any setting.
As for Assistance, the very first thing I did was disable all of them, I never liked them as a beta tester.
And as for Control, well, the second thing I did when I got the sim was type out every last one in its default setting, I got a good feel for how the system assigns key binds. Before this flight I had erased almost all of them and I made sure with my controls there were no conflicts anywhere, no double key binds. Any flight control hardware I don't intend to use I set to DEFAULT, which is void of any key binds so there's no conflicts.
As I indicated, this flight was fine till halfway into it and only then did it bust three waypoints then came back to them. But not descending at TOD was alarming. I was at 37K feet and set the MCP altitude setting to 3000 feet. At TOD it gave indications like RETARD and throttled back but then started climbing.
Thanks for your help. I appreciate it.

[Max Rate]

Thanks Dr, Venkman. I just checked on my system there's only two modes, LEGACY and LOCK. It's set to LEGACY..

That's not the Flight Model setting you're looking at, but likely the Accessibility -> Cockpit Interaction System setting (at least, that's the only one I've found that has both LOCK and LEGACY values). The Flight Model setting can be found in the General Options settings menu (and as Dr. Venkman stated, must be set to MODERN).

[JackSwyr]

That's not the Flight Model setting you're looking at, but likely the Accessibility -> Cockpit Interaction System setting (at least, that's the only one I've found that has both LOCK and LEGACY values). The Flight Model setting can be found in the General Options settings menu (and as Dr. Venkman stated, must be set to MODERN).

Thank you, yes, I just now checked. It is and was set to MODERN.

[Fleng200]

As for the thrust issue at descent, look at the FMS indication. After retard the indication will be ARM. Which means you have manual control of the thrust. If you have your throttles still at full power, that is what it will do.
There is a PMDG option how the sim will act to your throttles, look there (don’t remember exactly which option from my memory).
This is a change from P3D.

[JackSwyr]

As for the thrust issue at descent, look at the FMS indication. After retard the indication will be ARM. Which means you have manual control of the thrust. If you have your throttles still at full power, that is what it will do.
There is a PMDG option how the sim will act to your throttles, look there (don’t remember exactly which option from my memory).
This is a change from P3D.

The setting is allow throttles to move and it was set to that. The throttles did indeed throttle back, they moved back but then went full throttle. I have the PMDG settings screens in the FMCs all typed out, have for years with all my PMDG planes and the first thing I do is set every last setting. I did this with the 737-700, same settings I had in P3D. P3D on the same flight works fine, MSFS not so much. The busting of LNAV and the TOD was troublesome. I'll make a test flight again today but this time with a new SimBrief plan and instead of my usual I'll reverse the route. KBOS to KATL. I've done this flight in all of PMDG's planes for years, it's my standard test flight.

[Helibrewer]

The setting is allow throttles to move and it was set to that. The throttles did indeed throttle back, they moved back but then went full throttle. I have the PMDG settings screens in the FMCs all typed out, have for years with all my PMDG planes and the first thing I do is set every last setting. I did this with the 737-700, same settings I had in P3D. P3D on the same flight works fine, MSFS not so much. The busting of LNAV and the TOD was troublesome. I'll make a test flight again today but this time with a new SimBrief plan and instead of my usual I'll reverse the route. KBOS to KATL. I've done this flight in all of PMDG's planes for years, it's my standard test flight.

You could try the NEVER option:

A/T MANUAL OVERRIDE: This option allows you to decide how you want the autothrottle react to changes in your joystick throttle position. In the airplane, moving the throttles will momentarily change the thrust of the engines, but they will return to the previous position when released, unless the autothrottle is in HOLD mode. You can realistically simulate this by selecting the <IN HOLD MODE ONLY option. If you wish to simplify the process a bit while learning to fly the airplane, you can select <NEVER (in which case any movement of your joystick throttle will be ignored by the auto-throttle) or you can select <ALWAYS (in which case the auto-throttle will always allow you to override the desired thrust by simply moving your joystick throttle. We recommend setting this to <IN HOLD MODE ONLY. NOTE: If the autothrottle is in HOLD mode and you move your joystick throttles, the engine will change power. If you have trouble with this, then simply set this option to NEVER.

[JackSwyr]

You could try the NEVER option:

A/T MANUAL OVERRIDE: This option allows you to decide how you want the autothrottle react to changes in your joystick throttle position. In the airplane, moving the throttles will momentarily change the thrust of the engines, but they will return to the previous position when released, unless the autothrottle is in HOLD mode. You can realistically simulate this by selecting the <IN HOLD MODE ONLY option. If you wish to simplify the process a bit while learning to fly the airplane, you can select <NEVER (in which case any movement of your joystick throttle will be ignored by the auto-throttle) or you can select <ALWAYS (in which case the auto-throttle will always allow you to override the desired thrust by simply moving your joystick throttle. We recommend setting this to <IN HOLD MODE ONLY. NOTE: If the autothrottle is in HOLD mode and you move your joystick throttles, the engine will change power. If you have trouble with this, then simply set this option to NEVER.

Thanks. It is and has always been in <IN HOLD MODE ONLY. Both sims. And when I fly on autopilot I never ever touch the physical throttles. I'm using VirtualFly's TQ6.

[Helibrewer]

Thanks. It is and has always been in <IN HOLD MODE ONLY. Both sims. And when I fly on autopilot I never ever touch the physical throttles. I'm using VirtualFly's TQ6.

Did you accidently click the TOGA hidden click spot? That has screwed me up a couple times, I avoid that spot now, wish it could be disabled.

[JackSwyr]

Did you accidently click the TOGA hidden click spot? That has screwed me up a couple times, I avoid that spot now, wish it could be disabled.

No sir. I was just sitting in my chair watching. Hands on iPad and not mouse, controls, or anything.

[DrVenkman]

Are you using any kind of third-party controller interface software like FSUIPC, Axes and Ohs, Spad, etc that might be producing spurious control inputs?

[Crabby]

Uh, don't know about FSUIPC or SpadNext, but I suspect it is the same, they only send inputs if asked to do so. If AAO is sending a spurious command, that is coming from the controller not the program. Never heard of AAO or SpadNext sending something because it thinks it wants to.

[DrVenkman]

If those programs were involved (and they’re not - read further down for Jack’s reply) - then there is a risk of an outdated version (which affected a lot FSUIP users a while back) or another possible vector for misconfigured control bindings to be screwing things up. Every time there’s a major new airplane for MSFS, the MSFS forums are full of folks with similar issues and it’s almost always an issue with either sim Assistance options (already asked about that) or some third party program not playing nice. So, that’s why I asked.

[JackSwyr]

Are you using any kind of third-party controller interface software like FSUIPC, Axes and Ohs, Spad, etc that might be producing spurious control inputs?

Using VirtualFly’s VFHub, the controls in it are calibrated and stable, the potentiometers are stable, no spikes. Not using FSUIPC. No other add-ons as this is a new vanilla install. Only airports I bought are KBOS and KSBA.

[JackSwyr]

I decided to do another test flight, same as in P3D. Used SimBrief. KBOS to KATL.
Everything was good till I was 35 NM from LYH. The plane again strayed from the magenta line. It finally banked left and picked up the route.
No input whatsoever, I was just sitting there monitoring it, approx 420 NM from KATL.
At TOD I got RETARD - LNAV - VNAV PTH, 126 miles out.
23 MN miles from WINNG I got a white ARM - LNAV - LNAV-VNAV PTH then white ARM - LNAV-VNAV SPD and the plane oversped.
Despite me setting in 3000 feet before TOD and it starting the descent it went full throttle and climbed back to 38K feet.
I had to use ALT INTV to manually descend.
At this point I took over and manually followed the magenta line and landed.
I'm wondering if I did something wrong but I used the same route as in P3D and the same exact procedures in P3D.
It's very odd.
Sorry to complain.
Jack

[Dr_Eddie]

While you are sitting there monitoring Jack, its a good idea to have a look at the Progress page of the FMC and plan your descent on the descent pages. There will be data you need to enter in the FMC before VNAV will work as expected. If you just sit there like a passenger in the cockpit, it ain't going to work. Its not totally automatic , sit and forget. You do have to earn your money a bit.

[JackSwyr]

While you are sitting there monitoring Jack, its a good idea to have a look at the Progress page of the FMC and plan your descent on the descent pages. There will be data you need to enter in the FMC before VNAV will work as expected. If you just sit there like a passenger in the cockpit, it ain't going to work. Its not totally automatic , sit and forget. You do have to earn your money a bit.

Thanks Eddie. I’ll dial in my next altitude before TOD. In P3D it works great. In this sim it starts to descend then climbs back to the original altitude. I have to force it with alt intv or manually fly it down.

[DrVenkman]

In this sim it starts to descend then climbs back to the original altitude. I have to force it with alt intv or manually fly it down.

That's not right at all; so long as you have your next altitude in the MCP before TOD, and if all the waypoints in the LEGS page are completely filled out, VNAV should start the descent like you expect.

If I have time this weekend, I'll try to make your KATL - KBOS route myself and see how things go. Perhaps there's something about this specific route that's triggering an obscure bug in the FMC logic.

Have you tried any other routes? Since you're familiar with departures out of KATL, I'd suggest KATL - KBNA (Nashville). It's a common real-world route and only takes about 40 - 45 minutes to fly from takeoff to landing, but it's still long enough that you can easily climb up to somewhere between FL270 - FL300 before TOD.

[JackSwyr]

That's not right at all; so long as you have your next altitude in the MCP before TOD, and if all the waypoints in the LEGS page are completely filled out, VNAV should start the descent like you expect.

If I have time this weekend, I'll try to make your KATL - KBOS route myself and see how things go. Perhaps there's something about this specific route that's triggering an obscure bug in the FMC logic.

Have you tried any other routes? Since you're familiar with departures out of KATL, I'd suggest KATL - KBNA (Nashville). It's a common real-world route and only takes about 40 - 45 minutes to fly from takeoff to landing, but it's still long enough that you can easily climb up to somewhere between FL270 - FL300 before TOD.

Thanks. As I indicated above, I use this as a test flight in P3D. Made this flight too many times to count in the PMDG 737, well, the 747 & 777 as well and they work perfectly. So when I tried it twice now in this sim I've encountered these problems. I haven't tried other routes yet, I will this weekend. However, it happened on both KBOS to KATL and the reciprocal. Straying from the magenta line and TOD climbs. I even dialed in 3000 feet a few minutes after TOC. I'm sure it'll be worked out.

I look forward to the KATL - KBNA route, thanks.

[Crabby]

I have flow those routes at least half a dozen times with the MSFS 737 and zero issues. I fully suspect that being new to MSFS this is a local issue.
If you are using the MSFS internal control profiles you would be greatly served to do the following.
1. Create BLANK and by blank I mean Blank, blankety blank blank blank profiles for everything including the keyboard and mouse.
2. Take some time and figure out what inputs YOU want on the keyboard. I have nothing but view manipulation and view save commands and the ESC key mapped to leave the sim.
3. Ditto mouse
4. Set up your Yoke/Joystick as desired
5. Set up your TQ as desired if you have it
6. Set up your rudders if you have them
7. Set up any other controllers.
You will have to name these something like Keyboard 737, Yoke 737 etc because you will have to do this all over again with the next airplane you buy or download. Now comes my suggestion and this is how I do it because I only want to set things up once and also don't like that in sim control mappings have a habit of disappearing during updates etc.
1. Only my keyboard and mouse have in sim mappings. My keyboard is as I said above.
2. ALL my other control profiles are BLANK, except for view change commands on hat switches.
3. I use Axis and Ohs and set up my control inputs there. I can be as simple or complicated as I want. For example, I have a voice activated command set up called Before Engine Start Check. When I SAY this, switches start a flipping as if I had a co-pilot. Fuel Pumps come on, APU is set on the bus, hydraulic panel is set for engine start, hydraulics are set for pushback. All with one simple voice command.

I am guaranteed to have zero controller conflicts. The program remembers what controller profile I use for each plane down to the level of individual liveries. If you are not familiar with AAO, many people have already done the seemingly complicated work and share the scripts and profiles. Scripts can be assigned to anything you want. Profiles are specific to controller type.

Either way you will get rid of the default profile nonsense that includes double or triple assignments that Asobo decided would be neato but cause nothing but head ache and grief.

Also, while flying in MSFS forget everything about P3D. Only your piloting knowledge will transfer. Two very different platforms. Comparing one to the other will not help and will only frustrate you. Axis and Ohs is what I call a definitive MUST have utility along with MSFS Addons Linker (AAO is payware Addons Linker is free). Given my experience from Day 1 of MSFS I would council anyone getting into MSFS to get those utilities BEFORE they do anything else with the sim.

[JackSwyr]

[QUOTE=Crabby;n208597]I have flow those routes at least half a dozen times with the MSFS 737 and zero issues. I fully suspect that being new to MSFS this is a local issue.

If you are using the MSFS internal control profiles you would be greatly served to do the following.
1. Create BLANK and by blank I mean Blank, blankety blank blank blank profiles for everything including the keyboard and mouse.
2. Take some time and figure out what inputs YOU want on the keyboard. I have nothing but view manipulation and view save commands and the ESC key mapped to leave the sim.
3. Ditto mouse
4. Set up your Yoke/Joystick as desired
5. Set up your TQ as desired if you have it
6. Set up your rudders if you have them
7. Set up any other controllers.
You will have to name these something like Keyboard 737, Yoke 737 etc because you will have to do this all over again with the next airplane you buy or download. Now comes my suggestion and this is how I do it because I only want to set things up once and also don't like that in sim control mappings have a habit of disappearing during updates etc.
1. Only my keyboard and mouse have in sim mappings. My keyboard is as I said above.
2. ALL my other control profiles are BLANK, except for view change commands on hat switches.

I did this very thing on day one as I do in P3D. I have "Default" profiles for my VirtualFly's TQ6, Yoko Yoke, Ruddo pedals, and Saitek TPM. In Default they are completely void of any bindings.
----------------------------------------
3. I use Axis and Ohs and set up my control inputs there.

I'm sorry, I'm not interested in this.
----------------------------------------
Also, while flying in MSFS forget everything about P3D. Only your piloting knowledge will transfer.

Um, excuse me? No offense, but this is precisely what I'm doing. I'm operating the plane the exact same way in MSFS as I am in P3D. Operation of the 737, only.
----------------------------------------
Axis and Ohs is what I call a definitive MUST have utility.

Again, I'm sorry but I'm just not interested in this add-on.

I appreciate your response

[Crabby]

Your choice. Live with the consequences.

[Noncon]

Jack,

If you haven't already (sorry if I missed it), try re-installing the 737.

[JackSwyr]

Jack,

If you haven't already (sorry if I missed it), try re-installing the 737.

Hi Ken, thanks, I might after I try the flight a previous poster mentioned.

[Dr_Eddie]

Next time you try a flight Jack, try to get a screen grab of your PFD zoomed in a bit. It would be helpful to see what auto pilot modes are shown in the FMA, particularly before TOD and again when plane starts climbing again. I'd like to see pages in the FMC too. Cruise page would be helpful too. VNAV is usually very smart in this airplane, and it should obey speeds and constraints if it is able. Whilst in descent a profile bracket shows up on the right hand side of PFD ( like a glideslope indicator ) If the magenta diamond is in the middle of the scale, you are bang on your descent profile. if the diamond is high, you need to descend quicker, if its low you need to descend slower. Its very intuitive. I'd love to see what that looks like when your plane starts to climb.

The only time I've had behaviour like this was when I accidentally clicked on the TO/GA MCP screw by accident, the plane immediately began to climb, even though there was a lower altitude dialled in.

[JackSwyr]

Next time you try a flight Jack, try to get a screen grab of your PFD zoomed in a bit. It would be helpful to see what auto pilot modes are shown in the FMA, particularly before TOD and again when plane starts climbing again. I'd like to see pages in the FMC too. Cruise page would be helpful too. VNAV is usually very smart in this airplane, and it should obey speeds and constraints if it is able. Whilst in descent a profile bracket shows up on the right hand side of PFD ( like a glideslope indicator ) If the magenta diamond is in the middle of the scale, you are bang on your descent profile. if the diamond is high, you need to descend quicker, if its low you need to descend slower. Its very intuitive. I'd love to see what that looks like when your plane starts to climb.

The only time I've had behaviour like this was when I accidentally clicked on the TO/GA MCP screw by accident, the plane immediately began to climb, even though there was a lower altitude dialled in.

Thank you. Will do this tomorrow.

[DrVenkman]

I tried a KATL to KBOS flight today but didn't encounter any of the problems you describe. I generated the route with Simbrief but it apparently wasn't the same as yours: took off out of KATL on Runway 08R, then PLMMR2 SPA Q22 RBV Q419 JFK ROBUC3. Cruise was at FL370, with TOD over Long Island somewhere. The airport was landing south so I made an ILS approach to 22L. Everything went fine on the flight (despite my terrible landing in the face of a 20 knot quartering headwind, with gusts to 28 knots - good times ...).

[JackSwyr]

Next time you try a flight Jack, try to get a screen grab of your PFD zoomed in a bit. It would be helpful to see what auto pilot modes are shown in the FMA, particularly before TOD and again when plane starts climbing again. I'd like to see pages in the FMC too. Cruise page would be helpful too. VNAV is usually very smart in this airplane, and it should obey speeds and constraints if it is able. Whilst in descent a profile bracket shows up on the right hand side of PFD ( like a glideslope indicator ) If the magenta diamond is in the middle of the scale, you are bang on your descent profile. if the diamond is high, you need to descend quicker, if its low you need to descend slower. Its very intuitive. I'd love to see what that looks like when your plane starts to climb.

The only time I've had behaviour like this was when I accidentally clicked on the TO/GA MCP screw by accident, the plane immediately began to climb, even though there was a lower altitude dialled in.

Ok, I must be doing something wrong then.

I had the time just now to make the flight from KATL to KBNA.
Used SimBrief then had it placed in proper folder. The FMS loaded it.
KATL 08R PENCL2 PENCL DCT JAGIR SWFF2T KBNA 20L
Departed,VNAV wouldn't engage on the runway. It engaged after liftoff.
Engaged autopilot and it was tracking the magenta line but then deviated from it.
It also busted the altitude, from 25K set in the MCP and the FMS.
It wouldn't follow the LNAV so I just quit the flight.
Here's some screenshots.

Using IMGUR and BBCode. Hope this is the correct format for this site.

[JackSwyr]

I tried a KATL to KBOS flight today but didn't encounter any of the problems you describe. I generated the route with Simbrief but it apparently wasn't the same as yours: took off out of KATL on Runway 08R, then PLMMR2 SPA Q22 RBV Q419 JFK ROBUC3. Cruise was at FL370, with TOD over Long Island somewhere. The airport was landing south so I made an ILS approach to 22L. Everything went fine on the flight (despite my terrible landing in the face of a 20 knot quartering headwind, with gusts to 28 knots - good times ...).

Thank you Dr. Venkman, it must be me then, I'm controlling the flight exactly as I would control it in P3D. It doesn't want to track the magenta line in LNAV and likes to bust altitude. I'm sure someone here can help me figure it out as I honestly love these planes.

[JackSwyr]

Hello, I would like to publicly apologize for taking your time. I found the problem. I have a TQ6 by VirtualFly. I'm running VirtualFly's Hub app but despite no assignments in MSFS the sim still sees it. So when I turned it off it works. However, before this I decided to troubleshoot further. I also have a Saitek TPM. And despite it having no assignments in Default mode the sim does see this. So I unplugged it and now I'm making the KATL-KBNA flight. It's going well this second time.

I did however, in order to get the sim to see the TQ6 throttles, have to use the command THROTTLE 1 AXIS (0 TO 100%) and THROTTLE 2 AXIS (0 TO 100%) on both throttles which makes the throttles extremely touchy. If I'm on the ground the slightest movement aft I go into reverse. I wish there was a way to calibrate hardware in MSFS and as far as I can tell there isn't.

I used to use FSUIPC and was loathe to use it but now I might have to.

[DrVenkman]

Hello, I would like to publicly apologize for taking your time. I found the problem. I have a TQ6 by VirtualFly. I'm running VirtualFly's Hub app but despite no assignments in MSFS the sim still sees it. So when I turned it off it works. However, before this I decided to troubleshoot further. I also have a Saitek TPM. And despite it having no assignments in Default mode the sim does see this. So I unplugged it and now I'm making the KATL-KBNA flight. It's going well this second time.

I did however, in order to get the sim to see the TQ6 throttles, have to use the command THROTTLE 1 AXIS (0 TO 100%) and THROTTLE 2 AXIS (0 TO 100%) on both throttles which makes the throttles extremely touchy. If I'm on the ground the slightest movement aft I go into reverse. I wish there was a way to calibrate hardware in MSFS and as far as I can tell there isn't.

I used to use FSUIPC and was loathe to use it but now I might have to.

Glad you figured out the issue. As for MSFS controls calibration there is a Sensitivity button at the left of the Controls options page where you can create response curves, set deadzones, etc. Not sure if your throttles issues can be fully resolved there or not, but maybe worth a try.

But don't feel too terrible about your posts here - the KATL - KBOS test flight I made today just underscored how meh the stock KBOS is so I bought FlyTampa's version tonight.

Microsoft Flight Simulator 8_7_2022 8_05_10 PM.png

[JackSwyr]

Glad you figured out the issue. As for MSFS controls calibration there is a Sensitivity button at the left of the Controls options page where you can create response curves, set deadzones, etc. Not sure if your throttles issues can be fully resolved there or not, but maybe worth a try.

But don't feel too terrible about your posts here - the KATL - KBOS test flight I made today just underscored how meh the stock KBOS is so I bought FlyTampa's version tonight.

Microsoft Flight Simulator 8_7_2022 8_05_10 PM.png

Thanks Doc! That did it, stupid me, I didn't even know it was there. Yeah, I bought KBOS, I grew up there, like 500 yards from the airport in East Boston.