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Landing TIPS

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    Landing TIPS

    Recently got the 737 PMG after flying A320 for a long period. A friend and I are having trouble with firm landings (>300 FPM). Any tips to improve the landings please? Currently I’m trtarding at 30ft and flaring. Thank you.

    #2
    Hi, I had issues at the beginning too because the aircraft behaves completely differently from the A320 during the flare.
    The same way I had trouble when I started playing MSFS 2 years ago.
    The A320 in MSFS (I can't speak for the real one) got a strong ground effect below 30ft. You put idle at 20ft and do nothing else. It seems it actually flares by itself alone. In fact at the beginning I used to pull to much the stick and I ended up floating or bouncing.
    This is not the case for the B737. You really need to control the thrust and the elevator until the end.

    First mistake is to go idle before the flare. Don't retard at 30 or 20 as you would do in the A320. I usually retard slowly at the 10ft call and the engines goes completely idle the moment I touch down.
    Start the flare pulling gently on the yoke at the 50ft call, if you pull later you already know your landing will be firm, 100% sure.


    Learn how to TRIM the airplane. It's a key factor.
    Disconnect the AP at around 1000ft, so you have enough time to understand how the wind is eventually affecting the direction and the vertical path and you get enough sensibility on the controls. It is very important you first learn to fly properly the approach and you know how to properly trim the airplane. Then you can concentrate on the flare. If you mess up the approach and you reach the runway with a bad trim setting, you will never flare properly.
    If you disconnect the AP later you're actually letting the AP to land the aircraft for you, so why are you here? 😅

    Thrust is the other key factor.
    Disconnect the AT at around 500ft or when you feel stable with the trim on the descent path, don't do it just before the flare, or you might end up with some strange thrust setting during the flare.
    Be sure to maintain your VREF+5 (+/-5kts) for the complete approach.

    Practice, how to load a saved approach:
    Then repeat again and again and again.
    To do this more efficiently save a flight when you're stable on the ILS at an airport of your choice (better if you have some wind).
    When you load the flight go immediately to Active Pause, because the aircraft will be loaded for some reason at a speed of 300KIAS with no flaps nor landing gear and some strange trim setting.
    So first thing is Active Pause (ignore eventual warnings) and disable AP (it will lock your trim otherwise), adjust the trim so it comes back to the saved position and configure the aircraft again for landing. When speed and configuration are OK, engage AP and AT and disable Active Pause to let the AP to stabilize again the airplane on the ILS. Then do your landing training again.
    Last edited by Senseimatty; 24Jun2022, 08:18.
    Mattia Lambreschi

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    • Kevin Hall
      Kevin Hall commented
      Editing a comment
      I always flare the A320 in MSFS. I haven‘t tried leaving it to flare itself and if it does that isn't realistic. The real aircraft needs to be flared just like a 737.

    #3
    A superb response. Thanks for going to the trouble of such a comprehensive reply. I particularly like the idea of saving and loading a flight to practice over and over. Many thanks.

    Comment


      #4
      Originally posted by sanders1502 View Post
      Recently got the 737 PMG after flying A320 for a long period. A friend and I are having trouble with firm landings (>300 FPM). Any tips to improve the landings please? Currently I’m trtarding at 30ft and flaring. Thank you.
      There are several variables at play which you need to bear in mind if you want to achieve a smoother touchdown and landing rollout in your PMDG B737. Just like a real Boeing, any one of them will affect its landing performance to a greater or lesser extent. These include the aircraft’s landing weight and airspeed, the amount of Landing Flap, the pressure altitude of the airfield, changes to the wind speed and direction, the glide path angle, as well as the aircraft’s actual rate of descent and the flare technique you are using at the time; all of which will be different on every approach. Unfortunately, like every other PC simulator MSFS does not model the real world with 100% accuracy, so there are bound to be other variables at play which only Asobo’s software engineers know anything about. Nevertheless, the object of the exercise in your Boeing B737 is to achieve a positive touchdown at the right place on the runway and without landing short or floating too much. A reasonably firm contact will ensure the speedbrakes deploy, the wheels spin up, the autobrakes apply normally and hopefully none of the passenger oxygen masks drop down in the cabin! 😁

      So, depending on all of the above, make sure your eyes are in the correct position in the cockpit and try looking out of the window to judge your rate of descent and position and height above the runway. You might want to start the flare very slightly earlier or later than the 30 ft you have been using and see what happens. Try using control pressures rather than movement if your controller hardware is good enough ( I.e. develop a ’feel’ for the aircraft) and when you see the nose of the aircraft rise up towards the landing attitude and its rate of descent reduces, smoothly and firmly close the thrust levers and hold the aircraft’s attitude. If you have flown a stable approach with the aircraft in trim and judged things correctly then the aircraft will quickly settle onto the runway within 500 to 1,500 feet from the threshold and any false teeth you or your passengers might have won’t rattle too much.

      One final point if I may, keep practising until you get it right and remember qualified Boeing pilots never use the word “Retard” to describe any of their landings unless one of them makes a complete mess of it during their flight training. As far as they are concerned that word should only be heard during every Airbus landing! 😉
      Last edited by Michael Codd; 24Jun2022, 09:20. Reason: Addition of “with the aircraft in trim”
      Michael Codd

      Comment


        #5
        Originally posted by Senseimatty View Post

        First mistake is to go idle before the flare. Don't retard at 30 or 20 as you would do in the A320. I usually retard slowly at the 10ft call and the engines goes completely idle the moment I touch down.
        Start the flare pulling gently on the yoke at the 50ft call, if you pull later you already know your landing will be firm, 100% sure.


        ...

        Thrust is the other key factor.
        Disconnect the AT at around 500ft or when you feel stable with the trim on the descent path, don't do it just before the flare, or you might end up with some strange thrust setting during the flare.
        Be sure to maintain your VREF+5 (+/-5kts) for the complete approach.
        It's a simulator, so you can fly it in whichever way you want, but do note that Boeing does not recommend keeping the A/T enabled with the A/P disabled -- unlike in the 777. On the 737, both should be disconnected/disengaged at the same time, Also, the recommended method of executing the flare can be found in the FCTM:


        Flare and Touchdown
        The techniques discussed here are applicable to all landings including one engine
        inoperative landings, crosswind landings and landings on slippery runways.
        Unless an unexpected or sudden event occurs, such as windshear or collision
        avoidance situation, it is not appropriate to use sudden, violent or abrupt control
        inputs during landing. Begin with a stabilized approach on speed, in trim and on
        glide path.

        When the threshold passes under the airplane nose and out of sight, shift the visual
        sighting point to approximately 3/4 the runway length. Shifting the visual sighting
        point assists in controlling the pitch attitude during the flare. Maintaining a
        constant airspeed and descent rate assists in determining the flare point. Initiate
        the flare when the main gear is approximately 15 feet above the runway by
        increasing pitch attitude approximately 2° - 3°. This slows the rate of descent.

        After the flare is initiated, smoothly retard the thrust levers to idle, and make small
        pitch attitude adjustments to maintain the desired descent rate to the runway.
        Ideally, main gear touchdown should occur simultaneously with thrust levers
        reaching idle. A smooth power reduction to idle also assists in controlling the
        natural nose-down pitch change associated with thrust reduction. Hold sufficient
        back pressure on the control column to keep the pitch attitude constant. A
        touchdown attitude as depicted in the figure below is normal with an airspeed of
        approximately VREF plus any gust correction.

        Note: Do not trim during the flare or after touchdown. Trimming in the flare
        increases the possibility of a tailstrike.

        Landing Flare Profile
        The following diagrams use these conditions:
        • 3° approach glide path
        • flare distance is approximately 1,000 to 2,000 feet beyond the threshold
        • typical landing flare times range from 4 to 8 seconds and are a function of
        approach speed
        • airplane body attitudes are based upon typical landing weights, flaps 30,
        VREF 30 + 5 (approach) and VREF 30 + 0 (landing), and should be
        reduced by 1° for each 5 knots above this speed.

        flare.png

        Typically, the pitch attitude increases slightly during the actual landing, but avoid
        over-rotating. Do not increase the pitch attitude after touchdown; this could lead
        to a tail strike.

        Shifting the visual sighting point down the runway assists in controlling the pitch
        attitude during the flare. A smooth power reduction to idle also assists in
        controlling the natural nose down pitch change associated with thrust reduction.
        Hold sufficient back pressure on the control column to keep the pitch attitude
        constant.

        Avoid rapid control column movements during the flare. Do not use pitch trim
        during flare or after touchdown. Such actions are likely to cause the pitch attitude
        to increase at touchdown and increase the potential for a tailstrike. Do not allow
        the airplane to float; fly the airplane onto the runway. Do not extend the flare by
        increasing pitch attitude in an attempt to achieve a perfectly smooth touchdown.
        Do not attempt to hold the nose wheels off the runway.
        Attached Files

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          #6
          Thank you so much for your informative and funny reply.

          Comment


            #7
            If you go to your save .FLT file located in "C:\Users\YOURUSERNAME\AppData\Local\Packages\Micr osoft.FlightSimulator_8wekyb3d8bbwe\LocalState", open it with Notepad and seach for [FreeFlight]. Change the FirstFlightState TO FirstFlightState=FLIGHT_APPROACH. Save and load the flight in MSFS and the plane should be at the correct speed and attitude to practice your landing. Hope this helps.
            Cameron Burgess

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