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**steve-0** · 12Jun2022, 13:31

Kurt
I've always found that if you're polite people will go out of their way to help you.if you open a post by saying you Hate someone ,you will find that not many will want to help you.
You're not new here,so why so aggresive?.just relax and ask here if you have an issue with the 737 and you'll get help.

steve howlett

**Burley** · 12Jun2022, 13:54

I have never had an issue with PMDG and I have been flying PMDG aircraft since their first 737. I fact, I will purchase an aircraft I know I won't fly much just to support PMDG. You will not find a better aircraft.

Not sure why you want a refund but PMDG will make it right.

Burley Stinnett

**Ephedrin** · 12Jun2022, 14:01

Kurt,

it is required to open a support account because this allows PMDG to help people who lost access to their email address which they used on the shop, or otherwise have problems using their email provider. You can rest assured that everyone who reaches out to them gets the answer they need in a way they deserve

Normally refunds can only be given to products that haven‘t been registered.

**Murf7413** · 12Jun2022, 15:38

Originally posted by KWAiRT View Post

Why can't I just open a ticket for a refund with my store and forum account? Why do I need to make another account just to ask for support I won't get?

Talk about a temper tantrum!!! He must be 3 years old!!

**Boomer** · 12Jun2022, 15:50

Life lesson inbound to the OP.

767-300 for MSFS please.

**Gelomare1** · 12Jun2022, 16:24

Kurt, I feel your pain. They will not refund you. Will never buy again from them!. There are some nice person on here who will help as best as they can. But, otherise just "BoneHeads!" My help from suport was a one line question. Period. Good luck.
Gelomare

**TH454** · 12Jun2022, 16:33

Apparently some folks miss the big red letters on the product page.

Note: Digitally delivered products are not refundable.

**Boomer** · 12Jun2022, 17:28

Depending upon your jurisdiction it may be refundable…just a guess. Just because an EUA says something doesn’t mean it’s enforceable.

**cmakris** · 12Jun2022, 17:44

Originally posted by Gelomare1 View Post

Kurt, I feel your pain. They will not refund you. Will never buy again from them!. There are some nice person on here who will help as best as they can. But, otherise just "BoneHeads!" My help from suport was a one line question. Period. Good luck.
Gelomare

Can you please share the ticket number? I do not find any ticket with your email address or any product purchase with the email that you are using in the forum...

And please sign with full name first and last as per rules.

**Gelomare1** · 12Jun2022, 21:51

Gladly Chris, my ticket number for suppoort was:OPS Not working after install and update
Ticket Number: 112-2A1691DE-0057. to which i got a one question reply. After being given infactions by you, I did get the help neded from another nice person on this forum. So afyter my experience with PMDG on this purchase. I have a bad taste in my mouth . I have purchased all of the FSX products from PMDG. Loved them. This one is not up to par. It does not matter how many people get oin here to say "minne is working just fine" For the person that it is not it is a serious problem. Lastly, It was not just the opps center that did not work, but as anyone can see from a visit to this site. The bird has many problems. I requested a refund and was denied, because i had registred the plane. What kind of ump is that. How else is a purchaser to know if the bird will work as supposed to? Well it will just sit in the hngar until such time as i deem to to be worthy of dealing with. In the mean time, i applaud any and everyone who voice their dislike for an incomplete Bird that cost almost three quarters of $100.00-US

George Williams

**MarkusGX** · 12Jun2022, 21:54

Originally posted by Gelomare1 View Post

The bird has many problems

That seems a bit over the top no? all i have is the occasional flashing screens, every 1 in 15 flights or so. Ill gladly see if i can help you, some people think something is broken but just don't understand the plane fully. (Broken liveries, MSFS assists and the failures/maintenance system "breaking" something seem the most common)

Most streamers don't have many issues either.

No problems with OPS center myself.

**cmakris** · 12Jun2022, 22:38

Originally posted by Gelomare1 View Post

Gladly Chris, my ticket number for suppoort was:OPS Not working after install and update
Ticket Number: 112-2A1691DE-0057. to which i got a one question reply. After being given infactions by you, I did get the help neded from another nice person on this forum. So afyter my experience with PMDG on this purchase. I have a bad taste in my mouth . I have purchased all of the FSX products from PMDG. Loved them. This one is not up to par. It does not matter how many people get oin here to say "minne is working just fine" For the person that it is not it is a serious problem. Lastly, It was not just the opps center that did not work, but as anyone can see from a visit to this site. The bird has many problems. I requested a refund and was denied, because i had registred the plane. What kind of ump is that. How else is a purchaser to know if the bird will work as supposed to? Well it will just sit in the hngar until such time as i deem to to be worthy of dealing with. In the mean time, i applaud any and everyone who voice their dislike for an incomplete Bird that cost almost three quarters of $100.00-US

George Williams

You reported an issue. I asked on your ticket “What are you DPI settings in windows?” which you never replied back. Where exactly is that we did not help you? You never answered the question and this means that we did not help you?

**Gelomare1** · 13Jun2022, 11:26

Originally posted by cmakris View Post

Can you please share the ticket number? I do not find any ticket with your email address or any product purchase with the email that you are using in the forum...

And please sign with full name first and last as per rules.

So there was a ticket from me after all!! Instead of getting your feathers ruffled when someone has a problem with the product and trying to disprove the purchaser with unhelpful responses. Maybe support should try get the best support available to the purchaser. I did respond to the forum after ia kind gentleman on the forum was willinbg to give a more usable response to my issue. I as much as told you that in follow-up messages. So all siad and done. I applaud those who have spent their hard earned money to buy your product and it has so many issues. Granted, some may be user errors, but certainly not all! All one has to do is look at the forum even after the latest update and see how many things are broken that maybe was not before the update. Just sayin! Lastly, you talk about forum rules! check outr the posts below of which neither signed thier full names. I am done! I did finally make some progress with the bird, but after the last update have returned it to the hangar waiting for a real fix that does not break other things.

- Steve M commented
  Yesterday, 20:52
  Agreed, while it is of course frustrating to people who just want to take flight, it seems the majority of problems are user related rather than the actual product.
  Of course it has some issues at present (some due to Asobo, some not), but as you say the areas most are having issues with are the ones you mention, and I would add to your list correct setting up of joysticks, yokes and pedals too.
  - Flag
- #12.2
  Gazzareth commented
  Yesterday, 23:54
  I think there are more than a few people who just are not really prepared to help themselves, activate the product, have an issue then demand a refund. Doesn't matter if the issue is their fault or not.
  
  G
  - Flag

George Williams

**TH454** · 13Jun2022, 12:25

So the OP does a drive by, never to be heard from again. And the tread gets hijacked by another unhappy person who doesn't have warm fuzzy feelings for PMDG, Perhaps this thread could be a sticky for the "I hate PMDG" folks.😂

**stopnicki** · 13Jun2022, 12:29

I just do not understand. I really don’t.

I do not know if PMDG are the “best” flight simulation developer around.

I really do not know if their products are the most “realistic” flight simulation add ons available.

I surely do not know if PMDG’s products are the cheapest or the most expensive ones.

I do not know if PMDG is the company that takes the longest or the shortest to develop a product.

I confess that I have more than one flight simulator and I own more than PMDG products.

I therefore participate and check the forums of all my products when I want to know what else is coming, is new or I need some help.

An example of almost any item on another forum will likely read like this:

User: “The thing does not work when I press the upper button”

Staff: “We know about it, we will try to fix it for the next update”

User: (usually) “Thank You”

And that is, usually, it.

But in this, PMDG’s forum, a similar post will contain dozens of users’ replies with “me too”s, veiled insults, “surprises” at the cost of the products, endless comparisons with other “much better” products, really “not nice” exchanges between users, quite surprising user entitlement and a general negative malaise.

I don’t know if so many more replies, simply indicate that PMDG attracts orders of magnitude more users than others.

I just don’t know or understand. But it really is bothersome.

I have been here since its inception. I have had oodles of fun over so many years. I have made such good friends. I am now one of those B737 passengers who is “sure” that if the pilot is feeling ill, well “they can just call me, I’ll land it”. All thanks to my long relationship with PMDG.

But, there is one thing that I surely know. For sure!

PMDG staff and forum moderators have to be the most patient people in this business!

I hope they keep it up.

Regards,

Roberto

**Emi** · 13Jun2022, 12:33

Originally posted by TH454 View Post

So the OP does a drive by, never to be heard from again. And the tread gets hijacked by another unhappy person who doesn't have warm fuzzy feelings for PMDG, Perhaps this thread could be a sticky for the "I hate PMDG" folks.😂

It's entertaining though... I went through the same a hundret times when I worked as a support officer in another flight simulation company.
People post that they didn't get any help and when you look at their ticket it simply turns out that they never responded to your first or maybe second answer.
Mostly (not saying that's the case here) these posts did also include so little details, sometimes not even the name of the product the customer's having an issue with, that it's just impossible to help them with the information given in the first email.
And when you ask for more detail they'll respond "you haven't solved my issue, refund me within 24 hours or I'll go public and call my lawyer".
Those are the most entertaining of all.
I've had one guy who actually went public on avsim and he shared a photoshopped version of the support ticket where he photoshopped some curses in that I would have made against him, which of course I never did in the real ticket.
If you need to kill some time, those are really a joy to read. Especially seeing how those people quickly disappear when you then post screenshots of the real ticket.

**ActuallyGreg** · 13Jun2022, 22:30

To be this angry over flight sim software is just ridiculous. Sounds like the type that buys a 20k new car, never changes the oil, and when the engine blows, he yells at everyone at the dealership for not telling him to change his oil. I just don't understand people like this and I probably never will.

**Murf7413** · 14Jun2022, 00:54

Originally posted by Gelomare1

I have two degrees in economics. So go fly and lose yourself in your trolling! George W.

WOW... I am sooooooo.... not impressed....

My suggestion for you is the same you gave Greg...

Originally posted by Gelomare1

go fly and lose yourself in your trolling!

**Airrich** · 14Jun2022, 01:48

EVERYONE....breathe in... breathe out... breathe in... breathe out...

**Stearmandriver** · 14Jun2022, 01:49

What is up with people in this hobby? How can emotions run so high over entertainment software?

I get it. It's the internet. People are crazy on the internet. And you can't reason with crazy, because if you could... it wouldn't be crazy.

But. Still. Objectively speaking, it can be argued that this year in particular, the current sim has developed into something that exceeds a standard that would have seemed a wild dream less than a decade ago. Devs seem to be figuring it out, as we've seen the recent release of many staggeringly good aircraft, both GA and airliners. Of course this 737 is one of them.

You would think simmers would be in a state of almost perpetual celebration about this situation. I mean, here I am, routinely firing up in the sim, for free on my own time, an aircraft that they pay me good money to fly in reality... just to marvel at *how good this sim and aircraft are*.

But then we have threads like this, and especially the embarrassing histrionics over at reddit currently. What is up with people? Is this just some sort of extension of the idiotic political tribalism these days? You have to either be "team PMDG" or "team Fenix"? (I still don't even understand how they're competitors, they don't make competing products, but ok.)

**Jetman** · 14Jun2022, 02:29

With an attitude like that you certainly won't get far regardless of where the problem lies,tone it down a bit and treat the developer with respect and you might get somewhere,if the service has not been up to par then your approach will get you no where. Let them know politely and they will help you just as they do in the past,many of us have little issue but if we do we don't go on the attack we get support from our fellow simmers here them pmdg if we identify it's a bug,lighten up life is too short to be angry

**mglan80** · 14Jun2022, 02:35

FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!

Always good fun to have a real troll on here every once in a blue moon.

**cavaricooper** · 14Jun2022, 03:27

Originally posted by mglan80 View Post

Always good fun to have a real troll on here every once in a blue moon.

..... who else remembers and (sort of) misses Ferd?

LOL

**Rev2010** · 14Jun2022, 05:26

On the opposite end...I love PMDG. I'm a noob here, but I will say since the release of their MSFS 737 and my subsequent purchase I've learned more real world techniques and procedures for an airliner since my purchase than the entire two years I've been using MSFS. Their 737 has upped my learning BIG TIME! I have an older friend who's a real life 767 pilot and every time we talk he's blown away on how much I've learned. Most recent thing he said to me over drinks at the bar was, "You know, I've come to talking to you like my coworkers... you really know your [email protected]#" lol. And I still have a ton of learning to do!!! But it's flattering and I owe most of it to PMDG. MSFS default tubeliners are so dumbed down but it has its own merits, great for GA and X-Plane even moreso. I have both, so that has helped too. Not going to get into that but the more learning and platforms the better. Anyhoo,thank you thank you thank you PMDG!!!!

**rsrandazzo** · 14Jun2022, 07:27

Originally posted by KWAiRT View Post

Why can't I just open a ticket for a refund with my store and forum account? Why do I need to make another account just to ask for support I won't get?

Kurt-

Okay, so skipping over all of the other drama- lets answer your question, shall we?

We are a tiny company, and as such many of the services we use are SAS based with some minor customization. We have yet to find an ecommerce solution that also includes an integrated, highly capable support system. Customizing an ecommerce system to include such a thing would easily run into the $1.5M-$2M range given the depth of our needs, and we feel that is not a wise investment given the rate at which technology changes.

As such, we have them as separate entities and this allows us to have solutions that meet a high percentage of our needs on both sides of the house.

There is also the added benefit that when customers reach out to us with the usual "i lost access to my old email address/account name/password" they don't also need those things in order to get help from us in the first place. It keeps frustration to a minimum and maximizes the speed with which we can assist MOST customers.

You appear to be an outlier there- and for that I'm sorry- but the system does work very well.

**Extra300driver** · 14Jun2022, 09:21

I will second Rob's comment:

The system works well, the forum network is very responsive and when I have needed support tickets, that system work well and quickly

Also like to recognise Chris Makris for spanning both systems and his rapid help

**chasgoulding** · 14Jun2022, 12:17

I have bought every plane PMDG have made and whilst I have the occasional problem there aren’t any that compete so far.

I would also add that their support is excellent and it has been stated that they have changed their deployment methods and updates to a much narrower time frame. This mean that real bugs get fixed a lot quicker.

Whilst testing will find a lot of bugs, the miriad of HW out there today makes it difficult for every scenario.

I wrote a programme at IBM called Syslog Search, I tested it and when completed said to my manager, I have tested it and I think it’s idiot proof. His comment was you won’t know that till you let the idiots use it.

**TH454** · 14Jun2022, 12:24

Originally posted by chasgoulding View Post

I have bought every plane PMDG have made and whilst I have the occasional problem there aren’t any that compete so far.

I would also add that their support is excellent and it has been stated that they have changed their deployment methods and updates to a much narrower time frame. This mean that real bugs get fixed a lot quicker.

Whilst testing will find a lot of bugs, the miriad of HW out there today makes it difficult for every scenario.

I wrote a programme at IBM called Syslog Search, I tested it and when completed said to my manager, I have tested it and I think it’s idiot proof. His comment was you won’t know that till you let the idiots use it.

I had this hanging in my office.😃

Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."

**Angus** · 15Jun2022, 12:52

I’ve been a loyal customer to PMDG for years from FSX, P3D MSFS and other than a few bugs here and there that were always resolved I’ve never had any issues with this company. I love PMDG.

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