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Extreme noseup attitude for landing everytime.

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    #61
    Originally posted by CptKaji View Post
    Hey, out of everyone here having this problem, how many of you might be using OnAir Airline Manager?

    I had the same issue too and l think OnAir has a part to play specially if using the “Auto” feature to set your fuel/payload.

    l fly the BBJ 737, on OnAir the aircraft has a max payload of 33500lbs (or there about) however with max ZFW set in the sim, the 737 BBJ actually only has around a max payload of around18000lbs (according to what OnAir shows anyway) . I should have checked that the actual PMDG spec matched what OnAir set but hey-ho

    So l noticed although the ZFW wont go above the max or change in the FMC for the BBJ 737, when OnAir starts tracking the GW goes up and you actually see the aircraft react to the extra weight, which tells me weight has been added to the aircraft. Also when this happens, the “Icing” goes up and sometimes to red

    l would guess that OnAir adding payload has the same negative effects as using the MSFS built in load management, infact l bet that what OnAir is using to load the aircraft beyond the ZFW the aircraft thinks it has!
    I don’t use any of that and have the same issue with the weights.
    Maybe clearing the community folder and testing might give some results. I won’t be able to test until Friday so if someone can do a quick test with just the pmdg folder in the Comminity folder and do the speed test that would really help.

    Teo
    Teofilo Homsany

    Comment


      #62
      Hi all,

      I'm having this exact same issue since the launch. I've opened a support ticket as it's kind of getting me crazy.

      Happy landings

      PS: In the ticket, all my links have disappeared.

      Comment


        #63
        Originally posted by cmakris View Post
        Anyone that has this issue, can you please move everything out of community folder expect the 737 and see if you have that issue again?
        I only have "Ambitious Pilots - Toolbar Pushback" in my community folder. I'll happily remove it and test accordingly.
        Steve Summers - i7 8770K @ 4.7Ghz - 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR4 3000Mhz - EVGA RTX 2070 SC 8Gb - ACER X34 Predator IPS GSYNC 3440x1440 - ASUS ROG STRIX Z370-H - 3 x Samsung Pro SSD 512Gb - Corsair H100i GTX - Win 10 Pro 64 - MSFS. "The Only Easy Day Was Yesterday"

        Comment


          #64
          To answer a few questions:
          1. Yes I land with flaps 30;
          2. yes I'm using modern flight model; and
          3. yes it looks like CptKaji and I are using onAir Airline manager.
          Having said that other users without onAir also experience the same/similar problem. What I find interesting is that no one mentioned the heavy take-off as well - I would have thought cruising down the RWY with V1, VR, pull back and nothing happens would also get a mention.

          I initially suspected that onAir was loading my acft (Freighter version) using MSFS default causing the problem, however this doesn't account for the people without onAir.

          As an aside to this I also had a problem when I first got the software where I had complete hydraulics A&B failure on two separate occasions with failures turned off. I also have changed my transition level in setup in the FMC as per the PMDG video, and it doesn't save, every flight I need to adjust manually from FL180 to A100 (Australia).

          I probably wont be able to troubleshoot the weight problem further until tomorrow morning Oz time say about 2100UTC, however I believe it may not be the onAir software. Remember in my previous post (#53) I stated I as able to adjust weights outside onAir and do some AWK at YLRE manually flying with V speeds, trim within limits and acft acting appropriately. so with that in mind can those with the problem that don't have onAir confirm:
          • Are you using another piece software that loads your weight; and
          • Regardless of answer above when you get into the flightdeck can you (from my memory)
            • go to FMC then;
            • FS actions lower right then
            • payload and manually change payload to a specific amount or;
              • EMPTY
              • 1/3 FULL
              • 2/3 FULL
              • FULL
          Then see if your flight proceeds normally. I will update further after I try this troubleshooting as well.

          Regards,

          Tony.
          Tony Smith

          Comment


          • CptKaji
            CptKaji commented
            Editing a comment
            On my last flight l had the heavy take-off issue too, VR, pulled back and nothing happened!

          • Hoboe6498
            Hoboe6498 commented
            Editing a comment
            Try overwriting (retyping the payload/pax/fuel) amounts in the FMC then make sure the V-speeds are what you expect.

          #65
          Originally posted by Hoboe6498 View Post
          To answer a few questions:
          1. Yes I land with flaps 30;
          2. yes I'm using modern flight model; and
          3. yes it looks like CptKaji and I are using onAir Airline manager.
          Having said that other users without onAir also experience the same/similar problem. What I find interesting is that no one mentioned the heavy take-off as well - I would have thought cruising down the RWY with V1, VR, pull back and nothing happens would also get a mention.

          I initially suspected that onAir was loading my acft (Freighter version) using MSFS default causing the problem, however this doesn't account for the people without onAir.

          As an aside to this I also had a problem when I first got the software where I had complete hydraulics A&B failure on two separate occasions with failures turned off. I also have changed my transition level in setup in the FMC as per the PMDG video, and it doesn't save, every flight I need to adjust manually from FL180 to A100 (Australia).

          I probably wont be able to troubleshoot the weight problem further until tomorrow morning Oz time say about 2100UTC, however I believe it may not be the onAir software. Remember in my previous post (#53) I stated I as able to adjust weights outside onAir and do some AWK at YLRE manually flying with V speeds, trim within limits and acft acting appropriately. so with that in mind can those with the problem that don't have onAir confirm:
          • Are you using another piece software that loads your weight; and
          • Regardless of answer above when you get into the flightdeck can you (from my memory)
            • go to FMC then;
            • FS actions lower right then
            • payload and manually change payload to a specific amount or;
              • EMPTY
              • 1/3 FULL
              • 2/3 FULL
              • FULL
          Then see if your flight proceeds normally. I will update further after I try this troubleshooting as well.

          Regards,

          Tony.
          I don't own or use OnAir. I've been using Simbrief as a measurement tool and comparing it to the PMDG 737 FMC values. I'm using the 2 Class cabin.

          I've been manually entering

          Full Pax ie 128, and usually
          1 Ton for baggage (ie 500kg's aft and 500kg's front) and the
          Fuel recommendation according to Simbrief.




          Steve Summers - i7 8770K @ 4.7Ghz - 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR4 3000Mhz - EVGA RTX 2070 SC 8Gb - ACER X34 Predator IPS GSYNC 3440x1440 - ASUS ROG STRIX Z370-H - 3 x Samsung Pro SSD 512Gb - Corsair H100i GTX - Win 10 Pro 64 - MSFS. "The Only Easy Day Was Yesterday"

          Comment


            #66
            I've done a test flight today exactly as in the tutorial and emptied my community folder to leave only PMDG but I'm still getting the nose-up landing.

            I'm not using any addons like OnAir and I've even disabled my trim wheel...

            Next test scenario, doing a flight without the Bravo throttle... It's started to be very time consuming

            You can check the support ticket for more details...

            Comment


              #67
              I’m not going to be able to text for another 24hrs due work. From reading the latest posts I’m wondering if the loading of the acft gets to a point where the software coding is incorrect causing the problem.

              using OnAir I aim to (and so far have) load my cargo variant close to 100% full to earn the most money.

              tomorrow morning I’ll try a flight using OnAir and Bravo, with a flight approx 50% full and report back.
              Tony Smith

              Comment


                #68
                Originally posted by Hoboe6498 View Post
                I’m not going to be able to text for another 24hrs due work. From reading the latest posts I’m wondering if the loading of the acft gets to a point where the software coding is incorrect causing the problem.

                using OnAir I aim to (and so far have) load my cargo variant close to 100% full to earn the most money.

                tomorrow morning I’ll try a flight using OnAir and Bravo, with a flight approx 50% full and report back.
                I don't know what OnAir is, Iooked at their web site and it is just a marketing message, no meat; however, I do know that there is a limit to what you can load on the BDSF. A quick look is MZFW - DOW = 38,800. If you use FS Actions to set 100% you get 38,819 lbs. Don't know if OnAir is trying to set the weight/cg but if it is then that is a problem. Never use a 3d party program to set fuel or payload.

                Finally even if you load the BDSF 100% and fuel not to exceed MTOGW then aircraft weight should equal simulated aircraft weight.
                Dan Downs KCRP
                i7-10700K 32GB 3600MHz 3080Ti

                Comment


                  #69
                  DDowns Thx for input I appreciate it. https://www.onair.company/ is a payware add-on, where you start with $10K, and build an airline through charter, cargo, sightseeing, MEDEVAC etc. For me it is great because it gives me purpose and makes me go to places that I wouldn't otherwise. This is where you see what a great simulation this is - anyway back to the problem at hand.


                  Managed to get some quick AWK in at YBMA before going work. I just did a take off and set up approach and this is what I found:
                  • Wasn't using onAir (but don't think this is the problem as others without it have it);
                  • I notice in weight and balance in MSFS it has figures pre-loaded (50% fuel and small amount of cargo) so I hit reset and those figures remained so must be the default;
                  • I went into FMC and set MAX FUEL and MAX CARGO(photo attached) (yes I see the warnings);
                  • V-speeds and TRIM setting much more realistic (VR141 and trim 6.69);
                  • Acft took off perfectly;
                  • did a large circuit and set up RNP-U RWY16;
                  • VRef was again realistic at 149K with 30%flap; and finally
                  • Hand flew and perfect landing (subjective of course).
                  So with MAX payload and fuel it flew as expected with TRIM as expected. Tomorrow morning (2100UTC) I will conduct a flight with onAir again and this time I will overwrite the weights and fuel in the FMC even though onair does that.

                  What is causing this? There are a couple of scenarios to explore and I'm not submitting a ticket until we can narrow it down for PMDG.
                  1. I don't think its caused by onAir (and I did in the beginning) as others without onAir have the problem
                  2. I was one of the lucky ones to have hydraulic failures (twice) with failures set to OFF by default. I had to repair and refill twice and have not had this since.
                    • Did those with this problem also suffer hydraulic failures when they purchased the product? Are they linked?
                    • Is there a bug in the FMC software whereby if you manually overwrite data in FUEL/PAX/CARGO then the bug is cleared?
                  Until tomorrow,

                  Cheers people,

                  Tony.

                  FYI cmakris
                  Attached Files
                  Last edited by Hoboe6498; 19May2022, 03:26.
                  Tony Smith

                  Comment


                  • CptKaji
                    CptKaji commented
                    Editing a comment
                    l have had the hydraulic failure too while on the ground though, was annoying to notice it after having set everything up

                  #70
                  Originally posted by cmakris View Post
                  Anyone that has this issue, can you please move everything out of community folder expect the 737 and see if you have that issue again?
                  will check that
                  any addon you suspects?
                  Elad Zeierman
                  My Channel:
                  https://www.twitch.tv/elad239

                  Comment


                    #71
                    Originally posted by Ezman1980 View Post
                    will check that
                    any addon you suspects?
                    None currently. Just want someone with that issue to check if it happens without anything in community
                    Chris Makris (Olympic260)
                    PMDG Technical Support
                    http://www.pmdg.com

                    Comment


                      #72
                      Originally posted by mike2november View Post
                      I've done a test flight today exactly as in the tutorial and emptied my community folder to leave only PMDG but I'm still getting the nose-up landing.

                      I'm not using any addons like OnAir and I've even disabled my trim wheel...

                      Next test scenario, doing a flight without the Bravo throttle... It's started to be very time consuming

                      You can check the support ticket for more details...
                      cmakris This pilot did a test with nothing in the Community folder, issue persist. There is something definately bothering some installs.

                      Teo
                      Teofilo Homsany

                      Comment


                        #73
                        I'm having the same issue. One thing that I noticed that I don't see mention of is when first starting out from cold/dark and get to the point where you set the trim for take off, when I initially press my assigned button on my joystick, the trim immediately jumps nose up from it's initial position around 5 to about +11 or so. That is with no adjustment on my part, just when I first push the button (it is a 2 way spring loaded toggle). I then adjust the trim to show correct for takeoff. (usually around 5.4-ish). On takeoff, the plane will not leave the ground even with the stick pulled back fully. Only when I push the nose trim back up to where it reads around +11 or so will it attempt to climb.

                        I found it extremely difficult to climb beyond FL300 as well. Once in cruise (FL400) I had a nose up trim of +14. I don't normally pay attention to cruise trim, however I did in this case as I am having this issue..

                        I will say, I have flown maybe 8 or so flights prior to this happening without any issue. It only began after the last MSFS patch 2 days ago. I'm thinking this must have something to do with it as nothing else has changed including my flight preparation/planning/plane loading etc. I have not added or removed/updated any mods in my mod folder as well.

                        Also - I have been using Onair for my flights. It worked fine with Onair prior roughly 2 days ago.

                        Same on landing as well. I had to trim the plane ALLOT to get it to behave. I typically have auto pilot/AT engaged until 8-10 miles from the runway, disengage then manually land. Without a great deal of trim adjustment, I surely would have lost control of the aircraft.

                        William Kirkland

                        Comment


                        • DDowns
                          DDowns commented
                          Editing a comment
                          It's normal for the PMDG 737 trim to behave like that when initially loading. You may see the same thing if you click on the stab trim wheel instead of trim button where the trim will jump from 5 units. Don't know why but it's always done that.

                        #74
                        Originally posted by teofilo View Post

                        cmakris This pilot did a test with nothing in the Community folder, issue persist. There is something definately bothering some installs.

                        Teo
                        Do you have any addons from Market Place?
                        Chris Makris (Olympic260)
                        PMDG Technical Support
                        http://www.pmdg.com

                        Comment


                          #75
                          So... Just finished my flight. I had to fly above reference landing speed, full nose up trim and use the throttle to maintain glide path. In my case, the plane wanted to nose down and fly into the ground without adjusting trim manually. Flying the approach with autopilot engaged was not an option.

                          William Kirkland

                          Comment


                            #76
                            It looks like FSUIPC updated today. On a whim, I uninstalled my current copy, downloaded and installed today's updated version then re-enacted my previous flight from today. I used the same W/B and flight plan from Simbrief I had used earlier. All settings the same. Took off, and had no issues. I did not complete the flight, however I did not experience any of the trim related issues I had on my last 2 flights post msfs update. I'm not sure that was the fix, but you might try installing the latest version of FSUIPC.

                            Comment


                              #77
                              Seven hours of flying today and unable to narrow the problem down.

                              First leg: After preparation for flight as discussed in earlier posts (in FMC empty cargo/fuel and then reconfigure), Went to taxy and acft would not move - full power and it is like bolted to the ground as in someone else's post I read. Reset flight and prepare flight deck again and flight went perfectly.

                              Second flight: Same process and the overweight flight returned with excess trim and incorrect (low) V speeds.

                              Third flight: Heavy again and this time I lost all hydraulic fluid again despite all failures being turned off!

                              I'm worn out now, so going to delete all trace of PMDG and reinstall and try again...

                              Regards,

                              Tony.

                              ​​​​​​​FYI cmakris
                              Tony Smith

                              Comment


                                #78
                                For all those following along and experiencing the same problems, I think (hope) I may have solved the mystery. Since purchasing this product I have only been flying the Freighter variant rego: N737BF.

                                As stated in the previous post, I deleted the PMDG product and PMDG Ops centre, cleaned registry, rebooted and made sure nothing was left. I then reinstalled and loaded the last flight from the previous post with the overweight problems, and the problem was still there...

                                In a final ditch effort I began going through FMC looking for answers and there I saw it - an aircraft rego (attached) that I used in a B738 from PMDG in FSX (steam). There must be some type of conflict/crossed wires in the software.

                                Anyone else having the problem have you owned a PMDG B737 in a previous version? If so go to FMC then:
                                • PMDG setup; then
                                • AIRCRAFT.
                                Look at top (see photo attached) and what ego/tail number do u see?

                                Regards,

                                Tony.

                                FYI cmakris
                                Attached Files
                                Tony Smith

                                Comment


                                  #79
                                  Originally posted by Hoboe6498 View Post
                                  For all those following along and experiencing the same problems, I think (hope) I may have solved the mystery. Since purchasing this product I have only been flying the Freighter variant rego: N737BF.

                                  As stated in the previous post, I deleted the PMDG product and PMDG Ops centre, cleaned registry, rebooted and made sure nothing was left. I then reinstalled and loaded the last flight from the previous post with the overweight problems, and the problem was still there...

                                  In a final ditch effort I began going through FMC looking for answers and there I saw it - an aircraft rego (attached) that I used in a B738 from PMDG in FSX (steam). There must be some type of conflict/crossed wires in the software.

                                  Anyone else having the problem have you owned a PMDG B737 in a previous version? If so go to FMC then:
                                  • PMDG setup; then
                                  • AIRCRAFT.
                                  Look at top (see photo attached) and what ego/tail number do u see?

                                  Regards,

                                  Tony.

                                  FYI cmakris
                                  You ll get the wrong INI file only in case you have changes the Tail number or Callsign at the relevant screen of MSFS... Or if something edited the ATC_ID in the aircraft.cfg
                                  Chris Makris (Olympic260)
                                  PMDG Technical Support
                                  http://www.pmdg.com

                                  Comment


                                    #80
                                    I haven't changed the tail number or callsign so what should I do? Or do you think this isn't causing the problem?
                                    Tony Smith

                                    Comment


                                      #81
                                      Hi guys,

                                      Just did a test with nothing in the Community folder except for the pmdg-aircraft folders and the slow speed/trim issue persist.
                                      Thanks,
                                      Teo
                                      Teofilo Homsany

                                      Comment


                                        #82
                                        I Made at least 8-9 flights clean of utilities like PB tool and Fsuipc I think it is all connected to the Panel State loading and saving mechanism:

                                        i also wrote about this here:

                                        https://forum.pmdg.com/forum/main-fo...flight-loading

                                        i loaded the same panel state same CG same Short route LLBG-LLBG ILS Rwy 12 Manual flight at 1000ft AGL

                                        Sometimes i ended full stop on rwy with trim of 7-8 and sometimes above 10 , i tried not to trim manually at this stage ( Although the nose was Heavy)
                                        during all this flight there was problems with loading the panel state
                                        for instance:
                                        -engine num 1 looks like running on idle but actually nothing happening when opening the throttle
                                        - If loading " Ready for departure" state from default cold and dark will not turn on the screens

                                        the issues with panel state appears when a default panel state loading is defined (custom or some PMDG pre made)

                                        i suspect there are also issues with the Weight and Balance setting as part of the panel State loading or Saving - i saw some to this issues in past with the NGX and the NGXu



                                        Elad Zeierman
                                        My Channel:
                                        https://www.twitch.tv/elad239

                                        Comment


                                        • TH454
                                          TH454 commented
                                          Editing a comment
                                          I have seen the same issues with panel states.1 eng looks like its running, and the sim reports it's running, But it's fake news because the eng is not really running,

                                        #83
                                        Just to close the books on my end of things, I do not appear to have "the need to go nose down when handflying on approach"-problem anymore. I got tired of my ageing hardware and subsequently upgraded to a new machine which meant reinstall and no more glidescope issues. I also can't be sure there ever was a problem. It may just have been low fps which made me overcorrect on approach or simply bad flying skills. I make no claim whatsover to be a great pilot!
                                        André Hansson

                                        Comment


                                          #84
                                          Originally posted by cmakris View Post

                                          You ll get the wrong INI file only in case you have changes the Tail number or Callsign at the relevant screen of MSFS... Or if something edited the ATC_ID in the aircraft.cfg
                                          Ok I did have the rego and a callsign entry and have now deleted. I did one flight and it appeared to work so thankyou cmakris . Where can I find the aircraft.cfg files so that I can check them?

                                          Regards,

                                          Tony
                                          Tony Smith

                                          Comment


                                            #85
                                            Originally posted by Hoboe6498 View Post

                                            Ok I did have the rego and a callsign entry and have now deleted. I did one flight and it appeared to work so thankyou cmakris . Where can I find the aircraft.cfg files so that I can check them?

                                            Regards,

                                            Tony
                                            Depends.

                                            For the house liveries

                                            \Community\pmdg-aircraft-737\SimObjects\Airplanes and the aircarft.cfg will be in the directory of each plane

                                            For Liveries

                                            \Community\pmdg-aircraft-737-liveries\SimObjects\Airplanesin the folder of each livery
                                            Chris Makris (Olympic260)
                                            PMDG Technical Support
                                            http://www.pmdg.com

                                            Comment


                                              #86
                                              Guys to those of you having this issue remove any Custom registration on the aircraft settings. There is something with MSFS and custom registration that causes issues with the PMDG aircraft.
                                              I removed mine and the issue with speeds got solved. Try it!.
                                              Teofilo Homsany

                                              Comment


                                                #87
                                                Originally posted by citation79 View Post
                                                Guys to those of you having this issue remove any Custom registration on the aircraft settings. There is something with MSFS and custom registration that causes issues with the PMDG aircraft.
                                                I removed mine and the issue with speeds got solved. Try it!.
                                                Thanks for the heads-up. Will definitely have a look at this.
                                                Steve Summers - i7 8770K @ 4.7Ghz - 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR4 3000Mhz - EVGA RTX 2070 SC 8Gb - ACER X34 Predator IPS GSYNC 3440x1440 - ASUS ROG STRIX Z370-H - 3 x Samsung Pro SSD 512Gb - Corsair H100i GTX - Win 10 Pro 64 - MSFS. "The Only Easy Day Was Yesterday"

                                                Comment


                                                  #88
                                                  I have not changed the registration on my a/c and yet last night I had the same issue with trim set too high. I had to use extreme nose down on my Boeing Yoke to land. I have noticed this happening on about every other flight. One thing I probably need to do is update the landing weight on the Appr refs page. The tutorial says you need to take the current fuel and subtract the fuel amount expected at landing-take that difference and input it into the appr refs page. I forgot to do this on the last flight, I wonder if it might have made a difference...however, I did not select ref speed until just a minute or two before final, so the difference should have been very little.
                                                  Richard Jacks
                                                  DAL4116
                                                  Senior Captain
                                                  FlyDeltaVirtual.com KATL Hub Manager Apprentice

                                                  Comment


                                                    #89
                                                    Originally posted by RIchardjacks View Post
                                                    I have not changed the registration on my a/c and yet last night I had the same issue with trim set too high. I had to use extreme nose down on my Boeing Yoke to land. I have noticed this happening on about every other flight. One thing I probably need to do is update the landing weight on the Appr refs page. The tutorial says you need to take the current fuel and subtract the fuel amount expected at landing-take that difference and input it into the appr refs page. I forgot to do this on the last flight, I wonder if it might have made a difference...however, I did not select ref speed until just a minute or two before final, so the difference should have been very little.
                                                    It shouldn't make that large of a difference. I've done all three methods at various times with very minor differences: Set APPR REF about 100 nm before TOD with and without adjustment for expected burn, and when within 25 nm of landing.
                                                    Dan Downs KCRP
                                                    i7-10700K 32GB 3600MHz 3080Ti

                                                    Comment


                                                      #90
                                                      OK Guys and Girls - real world SOP (not applicable to all airlines, I know, however..........).

                                                      Everything for the approach should be set up well before TOD. If you have an extended cruise then start the work around 100-140nm before TOD; on a short sector get to work as soon as the aircraft is at cruise level. I can't help but feel these nose-high reports are stemming from self-induced weight and balance anomalies. So I suggest the following:

                                                      1. Set the ILS frequencies in NAVs 1 & 2.

                                                      2. Set the ILS courses in the MCP - both sides.

                                                      3. Set DAs.

                                                      4. Either from ATIS or your briefing pack, set the QNH for destination on the PFD so when cleared to an altitude all that's required is a press of the STD button.

                                                      5. Set Autobrake. At most airports, Autobrake 2 is more than enough. Airline EFB performance programs, as well as the Boeing manuals, allow you to work out pretty accurately which AB setting is required but, alas, PMDG hasn't provided any. Having said that, 'airplane toolbox' will give you landing distances for all AB settings. These are for the 800 but wouldn't be a million miles out for the 700 as they are weight dependent.

                                                      6. Go to PROG page and deduct fuel at destination from current fuel. Note the value, go to the Approach Reference Page and, from the Gross Weight value (top left) deduct the fuel difference value to give the approx landing weight - enter the new weight. Then, double click your desired landing flap setting (30 unless you are autolanding in which case select 40 - or 15 for single engine masochists).

                                                      7. Set up the FMC for the approach. Enter speeds and altitudes to suit your flying the approach. The FMC is there to do what you want it to do.

                                                      8. In real life, the approach briefing would then be completed and you call for the Decent checklist.

                                                      There - all done and dusted well before TOD and plenty of time to admire the view and have another cup of tea.

                                                      Paul A
                                                      Last edited by King Orro; 23May2022, 17:23.

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