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747-800 nose slaming down at take off and landing

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    747-800 nose slaming down at take off and landing

    Good morning every one,

    I know this is an old topic in which a lot of ink has been used, but i have to share my problem, problem I have been investigating for the passed 2 month from now.

    First and foremost, my rig, is Aorus Z390 // Icore 9900 Coffe Lake @4.8 Ghz // 32Gig RAM DDR4 // GTX1070 OC @112% core clock+200 memory clock +400) Corsair liquid cooling H105 Ipro with Win 10 latest update and graphic driver 461.92 P3DV4.5

    Second i have looked around the techniques used for takeoff and landing with the 747-800 that are different or seems to be different from the 747-400, so I am aware about the software and the 5 degrees and 8 degrees.

    Third, I have noticed that it is not only appearing at max takeoff weight, as a matter of fact I have just experienced it at 824000 lbs take of weight... flaps 10 at EHAM, all calculated by the EFB, but that is not the point.

    I have red a few days ago from our respected PMDG big boss that some time it appears that one or 2 can experience bugs that are complicated to reproduce, and he took a very specific example.
    So what is the common point between this and my system? well i have found out that;

    - Every time there is a Win update, I have to reinstall 747-800
    - Every time i have an update through PMDG ops, i have to re install, even if only liveries and not specifically to the 747, it was the case with the lates 777 liveries
    - Every time I update the graphic driver, bingo
    - Yesterday I upgraded FSUIPC from version 6.10 to the lates, then bingo I have had the problem that can be solved only by reinstalling or at minimum repair. Actually repair works fine, I have used this 2 days ago and flown without any problem several leg with computer shut down and restarted.
    - Everytime I play with the shaders, like with PTA, i have to repair or reinstall.

    i have no idea how to link all that together with the 747-800? because it is the only one affected from PMDG and I own all the jets...

    That said, I have also noticed some elements, recurrent elements telling me it will happen. during take off run, 10-15kt before V1 i have an abrupt slowdown of the speed trend on the speed indicator. that is a 100% sign it will fail, otherwise the speed trend is usually pretty much steady unless you have winds with huge gusts, which was not the case, at least not enough to almost reduce by 60-70% the speed trend during take off run.
    the other indicating point is some time the power i need to taxi the plane, whis is constantly less when all run fine.

    Do not ask me what are the scientific elements unifying all this together, i do not know and as said Mr Randazzo, sometimes it is very difficult to track down a problem that is not reproducible on Beta tester machines, and I have been beta tester... but does exist on other users computer.

    I also followed what was written before, like how is behaving the cat III landing? perfect... right on spot, and I have used this for manual landing too, it is about the same but me flying and most of the time it was happening, except the 2 last flight but I had to maintain no more than 5-6 degrees pitch up for flare.

    A part of the software mods that trigger this at 100%, linked or not, that I do not know, but this is a common event at 100%, the data for the last event to day was;

    EHAM departure 27 wind 330/15 temp 2 degree flaps 10 47 degrees assumed V1 158, Vr 162, V2 181,
    N854GT cargo 615.5lbs ZFW, 221500 lbs of fuel, T/O weight of 824.0 lbs (rounded up), all calculated with EFB

    once again, food for thoughts, but it is an annoying frustrating situation.
    Thanks for reading

    Cyrille de LATTRE


    #2
    Cyrille,

    there is something absolutely not right with your system, I think that‘s obvious. I personally had exactly the same problem with the 744 and 748 and the latter was hit more than the 744. I argued a lot with PMDG and the testers but in the end I could resolve it. My problem was that I had a special throttle setup via FSUIPC sending throttle-cut signals etc to gain something that was more or less needed when the 747 was released but not anymore now. I ended up deleting the FSUIPC5.ini (in P3Dv4.5) and assign a much simpler setup. I assume that I sent 2 signals at the same time that confused the PMDG code. Since I did that I haven‘t had this problem anymore. I recommend you delete (remove) this file too and check it

    For the installation and repair issues it sounds a lot like missing admin rights and/or anti virus software kicking in. Make sure that your sim is excluded as well as all folders that have to do with flightsim addons like OC2, active sky, navigraph, etc.

    I hope you‘ll get it sorted that way, I know how frustrating such a landing or takeoff run is.. :/
    i7-6700k, GTX 1080TI, 32GB DDR4 RAM @2666MHz, 4k
    Marc Ehnle

    Comment


      #3
      What is a 747-800?

      Every time you have a Windows update, I assume you mean the security definitions updates, you have to reinstall the PMDG B747-8.... why? What are the indications that a install is necessary? I agree with Marc that this is anti virus related.

      A graphic driver update too? Wow. Can't wait to find out what is causing this. Please report back on your solution.
      Dan Downs KCRP
      i7-10700K 32GB 3600MHz 2080Ti

      Comment


        #4
        Good afternoon Marc,

        Thanks for the feedback, would you be kind enough to be more explicit on the simple set up you did with your FSUIPC?
        Also all that is related to P3D is completely excluded from Kaspersky. also I do not have any repair instal issue, that is working well, the problem is that i have all the time the need to repair to have the 747-800 not slamming down.

        I would really appreciate if you could share with me more in detail what you did.

        Thanks a lot

        Cyrille de LATTRE

        Comment


        • DDowns
          DDowns commented
          Editing a comment
          It is not a 747-800

        #5
        Originally posted by Cyrille de LATTRE View Post
        Good afternoon Marc,

        Thanks for the feedback, would you be kind enough to be more explicit on the simple set up you did with your FSUIPC?
        Also all that is related to P3D is completely excluded from Kaspersky. also I do not have any repair instal issue, that is working well, the problem is that i have all the time the need to repair to have the 747-800 not slamming down.

        I would really appreciate if you could share with me more in detail what you did.

        Thanks a lot

        Cyrille de LATTRE
        What I meant is that the 747-400 is running fine... never had any of those problems. only with the 747-800 expansion.

        Cyrille

        Comment


          #6
          Originally posted by Cyrille de LATTRE View Post
          What I meant is that the 747-400 is running fine... never had any of those problems. only with the 747-800 expansion.
          What Dan is trying to tell you is it is the 747-8, not the 747-800.
          Captain Kevin

          Kevin Yang

          Comment


            #7
            Sorry, yes the 747-8

            Cyrille

            Comment


              #8
              There are many videos where the pilots say 747-800 :P officially -8...

              anyway.. regarding FSUIPC I used settings that sent cut signals in a specified range to make sure the levers are pulled back completely, then going into reverse with button signals etc. I think that it ended in sending cut abd reverse at the same time. I can‘t tell what your problem is of course but it can very well be an FSUIPC.ini file that accidentally saved a setting globally instead of aircraft specific or that simply is old perhaps? It‘s really hard to tell but FSUIPC is extremely powerful and the more advanced the aircraft code is the more abnormalies it can cause.

              My simpler setting no is that I move the Honeycomb beta throttle levers to idle, assigned via FSUIPC. The reverse levers are assigned to throttle 1 decrease and throttle 2 decrease for idle reverse and to throttle cut when released. And the button when you move the whole levers down over the detent adds throttle 1 or 2 decrease and will repeat the command if held. No axis range plays anymore.
              i7-6700k, GTX 1080TI, 32GB DDR4 RAM @2666MHz, 4k
              Marc Ehnle

              Comment


                #9
                Originally posted by Ephedrin View Post
                There are many videos where the pilots say 747-800 :P officially -8...

                anyway.. regarding FSUIPC I used settings that sent cut signals in a specified range to make sure the levers are pulled back completely, then going into reverse with button signals etc. I think that it ended in sending cut abd reverse at the same time. I can‘t tell what your problem is of course but it can very well be an FSUIPC.ini file that accidentally saved a setting globally instead of aircraft specific or that simply is old perhaps? It‘s really hard to tell but FSUIPC is extremely powerful and the more advanced the aircraft code is the more abnormalies it can cause.

                My simpler setting no is that I move the Honeycomb beta throttle levers to idle, assigned via FSUIPC. The reverse levers are assigned to throttle 1 decrease and throttle 2 decrease for idle reverse and to throttle cut when released. And the button when you move the whole levers down over the detent adds throttle 1 or 2 decrease and will repeat the command if held. No axis range plays anymore.
                Ok, but I have Logitech X56. I have deleted FSUIPC6.ini and started a new one. we will see

                Cyrille

                Comment


                  #10
                  Originally posted by Ephedrin View Post
                  There are many videos where the pilots say 747-800 :P officially -8...
                  People who actually fly airplanes and don't pay attention to details scare me.
                  NUNO PINTO
                  Ryzen 7 5800X @ 4.7GHz · 32GB DDR4 3800 · GTX2080Ti · Full Water mITX · LG 32" 144Hz

                  Comment


                  • Ephedrin
                    Ephedrin commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I suppose when you fly the thing you don‘t care about its official name anymore. Other things in mind. I also talk about flying the C172 although it‘s an F172 🤷🏻‍♂️

                  • Hilly32
                    Hilly32 commented
                    Editing a comment
                    There was a great comment by a real life pilot a while back who described the fact that he had such muscle memory of flying, he worried about which Ground Crew worked in such a way, etc, rather than the correct name of the plane.

                    Silly comparison, but I have two Mini Coopers in RL, one is electric and the other is gas. I call them both the same, but when I get in, I know which one I'm in...

                  #11
                  Ok, Ok, whether we call it 747-800 or 747-8, it is the same... same frame, same engines same aerodynamic same thing...

                  Now back to my problem, common to the 747-8 or 747-800 (couldn't resist...) it seems that deleting the FSUIPC.INI file and having rebuilted did the trick, so far...

                  Thank you all for your support and hint.

                  Cyrille de LATTRE

                  Comment


                  • Ephedrin
                    Ephedrin commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Fingers crossed!

                  #12
                  I have had issues with fsuipc.ini before (not the same as you did), it seems the file might get corrupt somehow and yes, deleting it usually solves the issues.
                  NUNO PINTO
                  Ryzen 7 5800X @ 4.7GHz · 32GB DDR4 3800 · GTX2080Ti · Full Water mITX · LG 32" 144Hz

                  Comment


                    #13
                    Originally posted by Nuno Pinto View Post
                    I have had issues with fsuipc.ini before (not the same as you did), it seems the file might get corrupt somehow and yes, deleting it usually solves the issues.
                    Actually I found out that it also cured some problems I had with another payware aircraft that was no responding to button on my joystick set up correctly.

                    I will report later if it is really fixed or not.

                    Cyrille

                    Comment


                      #14
                      Hi Everyone,

                      A couple of years ago I realized I was spending more time "fiddling" with settings/software than actually flying, and started a determined "simplification effort" that removed some fluff that wasn't buying me much, and one of the biggest gains I had was removing FSUIPC entirely and using the Prepard3D interface only. Your mileage may vary of course. Not missing the other stuff.

                      Now having said that, I do consider indispensable the titles Active Sky, ChasePlane, and a handful of Orbx Titles. The rest was removed = more time flying.

                      Mark Trainer





                      Mark Trainer

                      Comment


                        #15
                        Originally posted by mtrainer View Post
                        Hi Everyone,

                        A couple of years ago I realized I was spending more time "fiddling" with settings/software than actually flying, and started a determined "simplification effort" that removed some fluff that wasn't buying me much, and one of the biggest gains I had was removing FSUIPC entirely and using the Prepard3D interface only. Your mileage may vary of course. Not missing the other stuff.

                        Now having said that, I do consider indispensable the titles Active Sky, ChasePlane, and a handful of Orbx Titles. The rest was removed = more time flying.

                        Mark Trainer




                        The one big advantage (or two) of FSUIPC to me is that it autoselects the correct aircraft profile as I use several controllers depending on the aircraft I fly with. So for example I have a yoke for aircraft with a yoke and a joystick for aircraft with a (side)stick. All relatively normal setups can be achieved with the P3D menu too but there you have to "import" your profiles every time. The second big and really important advantage is that you can use the FSUIPC offsets for trim. If you use the sim menu one "press" on your trim button always sets the same amount of trim. I don't know the actual value but all above in A2A aircraft I found it to be either too little so trimming took ages or too much and trim was too sensitive. In FSUIPC you can go to the buttons assignment tab and select "offset sword in/decrement", use offset X0BC0 and set your trim to x/16383 and x/-16383 respectively. I also reduced the use of the FSUIPC buttons a lot and went to LINDA and dedicated aircraft modules for that and since I've only used FSUIPC for very simple axis assignments (plus the trim) I haven't had any issues anymore. Linda starts automatically with P3D so it's a no brainer once set up. In MSFS it's another story, the sim's UI is a medium disaster and FSUIPC has to run outside of the sim.

                        Additionally it seems that with version 6 John Dowson has improved the deletion of values from the ini so less rubbish assignments remain there than before.
                        i7-6700k, GTX 1080TI, 32GB DDR4 RAM @2666MHz, 4k
                        Marc Ehnle

                        Comment

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