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[26SEP20] Let's Get Down to Business, Shall We?

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    Have to say that I think the two mystery planes in the works are the 787 and the 737 MAX. RSR loves to embed hints in the screenshots he posts, and I think the 787s in the screenshot he posted are absolutely NOT coincidental. As much as I'd love to see a proper study-level 757/767 series, I just think the 787 is where the money is at.

    And that's OK. I think a PMDG 787 would be badass.

    737 MAX would make a lot of sense, as they could reuse some of the avionics from the 787.

    Guess we'll see if I'm right. I know the PMDG folks are probably having a good chuckle over all of our guesses on this topic!
    Chris Parrott

    Comment


      Originally posted by orangebird View Post
      Have to say that I think the two mystery planes in the works are the 787 and the 737 MAX. RSR loves to embed hints in the screenshots he posts, and I think the 787s in the screenshot he posted are absolutely NOT coincidental. As much as I'd love to see a proper study-level 757/767 series, I just think the 787 is where the money is at.

      And that's OK. I think a PMDG 787 would be badass.

      737 MAX would make a lot of sense, as they could reuse some of the avionics from the 787.

      Guess we'll see if I'm right. I know the PMDG folks are probably having a good chuckle over all of our guesses on this topic!
      Totally agree. Couldn't be better than 737 MAX and 787. It is absolutely not coincidental that the 787 is included in that picture. Why would anybody take a picture from that angle, if it wasn't to include the 787 on purpose?
      Anton Vind
      CPU: i9-9900K, GPU: RTX 2080 SUPER, RAM: 32 GB DDR4 3600 MHz, Drives: 2 TB SSD

      Comment


        This is just to tease us and put us of the actual target aircraft.
        Danny Z.Cebis

        Comment


          I think that the images are you make you think the 787. I think the image with the 787 is just because it is take from a Boeing facility.

          Robert said " that you have always asked us to create…" The 757 / 767 is my guess. Many of us that have been around since the early 2000s have been asking PMDG to make the 757 / 767 since FS2002/FS2004. They had made it in the past for a older sim called Fly! II.

          Jonathan Brad

          Part of the flight sim world since 1981

          Comment


          • BodoM
            BodoM commented
            Editing a comment
            I agree 100%. So I still hope for the 757/767.

          Originally posted by CX 747-400 View Post
          I think that the images are you make you think the 787. I think the image with the 787 is just because it is take from a Boeing facility.

          Robert said " that you have always asked us to create…" The 757 / 767 is my guess. Many of us that have been around since the early 2000s have been asking PMDG to make the 757 / 767 since FS2002/FS2004. They had made it in the past for a older sim called Fly! II.
          But there's no money in a 757/767 because they're disappearing from real-world usage (except maybe the 767-400ER). Don't forget, if PMDG start on a 787 for example, it'll be a good 2-3 years before it's released. In 2-3 years the reduction in 757 and 767 in service will be greater, and the number of 787s in service will also be greater. RSR has always said they'd make aircraft you see at airports, especially after the MD11 sold poorly. Since the CoViD-19 pandemic, that will be now greatly skewed towards the modern, fuel-efficient twins. That means 787s, 777s, 737 MAXs.
          Last edited by squerble; 05Oct2020, 10:03.
          - Karl Brooker

          Comment


          • Mickel
            Mickel commented
            Editing a comment
            Not sure the ‘what you see at airports’ entirely stacks up:
            737NG, yep absolutely
            747? These days it’s because it’s a 747, which is a perfectly good reason.
            JS4100?
            77L/F? The 77W kinda fits. But not as well as the 777-200ER
            DC-6?
            So there is plenty of scope for obscure things like 767s or 727s, or Woodpigeons (Mk.II with the Anzani 6, of course)

          • squerble
            squerble commented
            Editing a comment
            Mickel But you're listing the existing products. This is for future development.

          Originally posted by squerble View Post

          But there's no money in a 757/767 because they're disappearing from real-world usage (except maybe the 767-400ER). Don't forget, if PMDG start on a 787 for example, it'll be a good 2-3 years before it's released. In 2-3 years the reduction in 757 and 767 in service will be greater, and the number of 787s in service will also be greater. RSR has always said they'd make aircraft you see at airports, especially after the MD11 sold poorly. Since the CoViD-19 pandemic, that will be now greatly skewed towards the modern, fuel-efficient twins. That means 787s, 777s, 737 MAXs.
          You may right but the 757/767 is something that is massively missing in the Virtual sim World but everyone wants it and since the LDS 767 no one did it. I think a development make sense!

          Regards from Cologne,
          Tobi

          Comment


            Originally posted by squerble View Post

            But there's no money in a 757/767 because they're disappearing from real-world usage (except maybe the 767-400ER).
            Interesting that some people always know where the money for PMDG is and where not. You should be a consultant for them.
            Bodo Müller
            Globe Cargo Virtual Airlines.
            A Virtual Airline for Polar and Atlas Air

            Comment


              Originally posted by squerble View Post

              But there's no money in a 757/767 because they're disappearing from real-world usage

              remember cargo


              Originally posted by 767 wikipedia entry

              In its first quarter of 2018 earnings report, Boeing plan to increase its production from 2.5 to 3 monthly beginning in January 2020 due to increased demand in the cargo market, as FedEx had 56 on order, UPS has four, and an unidentified customer has three on order. This rate could rise to 3.5 per month in July 2020 and 4 per month in January 2021, before decreasing to 3 per month in January 2025 and then 2 per month in July 2025
              Mike Teague - p3dv5 - B736 B737 B738 B739 B744 B748

              Comment


                Originally posted by squerble View Post

                But there's no money in a 757/767 because they're disappearing from real-world usage (except maybe the 767-400ER). Don't forget, if PMDG start on a 787 for example, it'll be a good 2-3 years before it's released. In 2-3 years the reduction in 757 and 767 in service will be greater, and the number of 787s in service will also be greater. RSR has always said they'd make aircraft you see at airports, especially after the MD11 sold poorly. Since the CoViD-19 pandemic, that will be now greatly skewed towards the modern, fuel-efficient twins. That means 787s, 777s, 737 MAXs.
                Chances are, they might have been working on a 787 for years, but with the obvious NDAs, people can only guess until the NDA has finally be lifted, but I still believe that the next major project will be the 787.
                Craig Norman

                Comment


                  They simply can’t miss the 787, it’s so obvious to develop in so many aspects.
                  Anton Vind
                  CPU: i9-9900K, GPU: RTX 2080 SUPER, RAM: 32 GB DDR4 3600 MHz, Drives: 2 TB SSD

                  Comment


                    How much progress has been made in terms of new aircraft development?Or have you just decided which aircraft to develop and will you start now?I'm very curious to see how long it will take to release the former and the latter, because I think the time frame for the latter is very different.Of course, I'm also curious about what the aircraft will be.

                    Kouki Yamagishi

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Kouki Yamagishi View Post
                      How much progress has been made in terms of new aircraft development?Or have you just decided which aircraft to develop and will you start now?I'm very curious to see how long it will take to release the former and the latter, because I think the time frame for the latter is very different.Of course, I'm also curious about what the aircraft will be.

                      Kouki Yamagishi
                      One of the projects is about to be tested, whether that's alpha or beta testing, I do not know, but I guess it's beta, so it'll probably be out in 1Q/2Q 2021. The other project has just begun, so that'll be a couple of years at the very least - probaly three or four years till that one is out.
                      Anton Vind
                      CPU: i9-9900K, GPU: RTX 2080 SUPER, RAM: 32 GB DDR4 3600 MHz, Drives: 2 TB SSD

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Anton Vind View Post

                        One of the projects is about to be tested, whether that's alpha or beta testing, I do not know, but I guess it's beta, so it'll probably be out in 1Q/2Q 2021. The other project has just begun, so that'll be a couple of years at the very least - probaly three or four years till that one is out.
                        I hope that, if one of the projects is definitely a 787, it's the one that's going to be first.
                        Craig Norman

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by CANorm91 View Post
                          I hope that, if one of the projects is definitely a 787, it's the one that's going to be first.
                          I think it’s the 737 MAX that is about to be tested, and then they’ve just begun working on the 787. Of course I hope the opposite, but unfortunately I don’t think that is the case :-)
                          Anton Vind
                          CPU: i9-9900K, GPU: RTX 2080 SUPER, RAM: 32 GB DDR4 3600 MHz, Drives: 2 TB SSD

                          Comment


                            If they do release the max in short order, I just might get the NGXu...
                            Ilari Kousa, Finland

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Ilari Kousa View Post
                              If they do release the max in short order, I just might get the NGXu...
                              Not necessarily sure that it’ll be released as an expansion. If the 748 was supposed to be a standalone product, then the 737 MAX could definitely serve as a standalone product as well.
                              Anton Vind
                              CPU: i9-9900K, GPU: RTX 2080 SUPER, RAM: 32 GB DDR4 3600 MHz, Drives: 2 TB SSD

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Anton Vind View Post

                                I think it’s the 737 MAX that is about to be tested, and then they’ve just begun working on the 787. Of course I hope the opposite, but unfortunately I don’t think that is the case :-)
                                They wouldn't say it was a secret project if they've already talked about making a MAX in the past. Plus, it's still too soon since the MCAS drama has only just been sorted out, and PMDG may very well need more time to recode the MCAS logic to match the real reprogrammed system. So I'm betting on the 787.
                                Craig Norman

                                Comment


                                  Originally posted by CANorm91 View Post
                                  They wouldn't say it was a secret project if they've already talked about making a MAX in the past. Plus, it's still too soon since the MCAS drama has only just been sorted out, and PMDG may very well need more time to recode the MCAS logic to match the real reprogrammed system. So I'm betting on the 787.
                                  eehhh it may be faster than you think tbh. definitely would see the MAX way before that secret project even gets previewed.
                                  Alex Kulak
                                  PMDG Studier and flyer

                                  Comment


                                    Originally posted by CANorm91 View Post
                                    They wouldn't say it was a secret project if they've already talked about making a MAX in the past. Plus, it's still too soon since the MCAS drama has only just been sorted out, and PMDG may very well need more time to recode the MCAS logic to match the real reprogrammed system. So I'm betting on the 787.
                                    Well what RSR said was that it was a product that we haven’t seen yet, which is applicable for the MAX. But yeah I agree on the MCAS issue... wondering what it is then. Of course I hope it’s the 787, but I just can’t believe that we potentially have a 787 around the corner haha
                                    Anton Vind
                                    CPU: i9-9900K, GPU: RTX 2080 SUPER, RAM: 32 GB DDR4 3600 MHz, Drives: 2 TB SSD

                                    Comment


                                      Dear PMDG,

                                      Let's not getting complacent with the used FSX and P3D, Microsoft Flight Simulator is back!
                                      Let's work FORWARD with Microsoft Flight Simulator, this should be PRIORITY now, not P3D..

                                      Microsoft Flight Simulator didn't just come out out of nowhere unannounced on Aug 18th 2020...right?

                                      We're not gonna wait one year (??) to be able to fly ALL PMDG product line on THE LEGACY Flight Simulator?

                                      All those talks mean commercial pressures from P3D, to give excuses, some well established products needed wait 1 year for simple platform shift. P3D is built from FSX...no FSX no P3D.


                                      P3Dv5 is just an excuse for P3D to stay afloat (barely) after MSFS2020 is out, we (all?) know that. If MSFS2020 is left unattended by addons developpers for one year, there's conspiracy behind it...


                                      Why Orbx has already released airports etc for MSFS2020 along with, other addons providers updated their software and released a new MSFS2020 version, like VATSIM etc, it's simple: they focused on the right thing right from the start of MSFS2020 "drawing boards" behind the scene.
                                      But PMDG needs a year to shift its entire product line to an already known updated platform?

                                      I don't believe it..

                                      In 2020, FSX and P3D are done with, MSFS2020 is THEE Sim, if someone tries to argue convince me otherwise I won't listen..


                                      We (all?) know that if PMDG wanted, the entire PMDG product line would already been ready to shift to MSFS2020 within a REASONNABLE time frame if not "instantly" (instantly meaning a few days ok), NOT 1 year+.


                                      As you said, let's get down to business, the right one now..


                                      Xav

                                      Comment


                                      • Swaluver88
                                        Swaluver88 commented
                                        Editing a comment
                                        lol MSFS isnt ready for PMDG quality and frankly it may not be for a while. sit back, relax and enjoy the ride that ASOBO gives us

                                      • RoDuSu
                                        RoDuSu commented
                                        Editing a comment
                                        This is a completely ignorant response to what aircraft developers are encountering with MSFS. Do some research, next time.

                                      • bonfly
                                        bonfly commented
                                        Editing a comment
                                        That’s the most nonsense I’ve ever seen in a post on these forums.

                                      Originally posted by airifr View Post
                                      Dear PMDG,

                                      Let's not getting complacent with the used FSX and P3D, Microsoft Flight Simulator is back!
                                      Let's work FORWARD with Microsoft Flight Simulator, this should be PRIORITY now, not P3D..

                                      Microsoft Flight Simulator didn't just come out out of nowhere unannounced on Aug 18th 2020...right?

                                      We're not gonna wait one year (??) to be able to fly ALL PMDG product line on THE LEGACY Flight Simulator?

                                      All those talks mean commercial pressures from P3D, to give excuses, some well established products needed wait 1 year for simple platform shift. P3D is built from FSX...no FSX no P3D.


                                      P3Dv5 is just an excuse for P3D to stay afloat (barely) after MSFS2020 is out, we (all?) know that. If MSFS2020 is left unattended by addons developpers for one year, there's conspiracy behind it...


                                      Why Orbx has already released airports etc for MSFS2020 along with, other addons providers updated their software and released a new MSFS2020 version, like VATSIM etc, it's simple: they focused on the right thing right from the start of MSFS2020 "drawing boards" behind the scene.
                                      But PMDG needs a year to shift its entire product line to an already known updated platform?

                                      I don't believe it..

                                      In 2020, FSX and P3D are done with, MSFS2020 is THEE Sim, if someone tries to argue convince me otherwise I won't listen..


                                      We (all?) know that if PMDG wanted, the entire PMDG product line would already been ready to shift to MSFS2020 within a REASONNABLE time frame if not "instantly" (instantly meaning a few days ok), NOT 1 year+.


                                      As you said, let's get down to business, the right one now..


                                      Xav
                                      Quite clearly haven't read what Robert has said - the SDK for aircraft is not ready for aircraft of PMDG complexity etc. Scenery is one thing, aircraft is a completely different ball game altogether!

                                      Trevor Hannant

                                      Comment


                                        Additionally, there'll probably still be a Prepar3D customer base, it's not like single one will move over to MFS2020 (not immediately at least - sure, it'll probably happen in time).
                                        Anton Vind
                                        CPU: i9-9900K, GPU: RTX 2080 SUPER, RAM: 32 GB DDR4 3600 MHz, Drives: 2 TB SSD

                                        Comment


                                          Originally posted by TrevorHannant View Post

                                          Quite clearly haven't read what Robert has said - the SDK for aircraft is not ready for aircraft of PMDG complexity etc. Scenery is one thing, aircraft is a completely different ball game altogether!
                                          Quite clearly haven't read what I said either...or understood?


                                          AAAnyway, I'm out..

                                          Xav

                                          Comment


                                            Originally posted by airifr View Post

                                            Quite clearly haven't read what I said either...or understood?


                                            AAAnyway, I'm out..

                                            Xav
                                            You have said nothing. No point of discussion just unloading a chunk of wild accusations and conspiracy theories. And then playing the little child is just, well ‚telling‘.

                                            All respectable developers for serious addon aircraft (up and beyond PMDG even) clearly state that the SDK is not ready. There is not enough to work with. Period.
                                            Last edited by Mad_X; 05Oct2020, 23:15.
                                            [email protected] Pletsch

                                            Postnigs with typnig errors since 1984

                                            Comment


                                              Originally posted by airifr View Post

                                              Quite clearly haven't read what I said either...or understood?


                                              AAAnyway, I'm out..

                                              Xav
                                              Or perhaps your comment was the dumbest most uneducated take on FS2020 code base?

                                              MSFS 2020, as opposed to FSX/P3D/etc, does not let you run native C++ executable and DLLs. There’s absolutely no ways around it. It uses a sandboxed webAssembly with extremely limited API calls.
                                              Even its Simconnect API is severely limited compared to what’s in P3D.
                                              What is available to devs right now is a Blender module which allow you to do basic scenery and 3D virtual cockpit/plane models, which is why you have seen some 3rd party sceneries of mediocre quality and very limited new planes that more of less uses the default flight models and avionics stack. It’s literally out of the PMDG teams hands at this moment, it’s like asking a house builder to build a townhouse but the only tools he can use is a hammer, a flat head screw driver, a bubble level, a shovel and a bunch of 2x4s.


                                              Now, there’s a lot of cooperation between pro devs team such as Aerosoft and PMDG and Asboro and MS. Apparently Aerosoft has a very active role in helping Asoboro build the SDK. Perhaps, although unlikely MS will authorize some 3PD to become “trusted developers” and allow them a deeper access to the sim, otherwise it’s gonna be a long wait until the SDK and the sim platform itself is robust enough to support a complex add on like the NG3. Wasn’t the original NGX FMC something along 100 000 lines of code ? Imagine having to do a recode in a different language. Also wasm, even optimized, will never run as fast as native c++ so there’s that...

                                              Eric Blais

                                              Comment


                                              • DDowns
                                                DDowns commented
                                                Editing a comment
                                                Thanks Eric, you triggered my curiosity so I browsed webAssembly.org and cannot believe they have returned to a form of assembly language. This is very primitive other then it has constructs not found in the old MASM (I learned assembly on my first machine in the early 80s). They did this because it uses the java script interface common in browsers? Goodness. I don't think PMDG will have a SDK by 2021Q4!

                                              • squerble
                                                squerble commented
                                                Editing a comment
                                                DaedalusX - great post explaining the delay. And yes DDowns I agree even expecting the platform to be opened up enough for the likes of PMDG is very unlikely by the end of 2021. Nice to see some realistic posts on here - those suggesting everyone will move to MSFS is definitely blinkered, as they're assuming P3D development will standstill. It won't. P3D could well remain the de facto platform for complex airliners for years to come, if not even a decade if MS keep MSFS nerfed for 3PD.

                                              • Swaluver88
                                                Swaluver88 commented
                                                Editing a comment
                                                dan youre absolutely right. as i recall over on the MSFS forums that i was uneducated and old fashion, yet.....

                                              Originally posted by airifr View Post

                                              Quite clearly haven't read what I said either...or understood?


                                              AAAnyway, I'm out..

                                              Xav
                                              Oh I did read and understood thanks hence my reply...
                                              Trevor Hannant

                                              Comment


                                                Originally posted by Anton Vind View Post

                                                Well what RSR said was that it was a product that we haven’t seen yet, which is applicable for the MAX. But yeah I agree on the MCAS issue... wondering what it is then. Of course I hope it’s the 787, but I just can’t believe that we potentially have a 787 around the corner haha
                                                As far as I understood checking announcements from this forum the developing of MAX began in 2017-2018 (since it was hinted on Avsim forum). Then Indonesian and Ethiopian flights crashed and developing stoped.
                                                Now we'll have MAX only after the plane gets certification and starts flying in real world.
                                                But when? It is a big question.
                                                Last edited by Alexiyi; 06Oct2020, 07:47.
                                                Alexey Ermolaev

                                                Comment


                                                • Swaluver88
                                                  Swaluver88 commented
                                                  Editing a comment
                                                  upcoming months. definitely they're trying to get it out, however dont expect Boeing to make this a big deal but slide it under quietly. they may not ever say its been recertified but just release an AD (that can be found on the FAA website) and thats it. so keep a look out. Im sure news organizations will figure it out as the days go by and FR24 gets more and more in the air.

                                                Originally posted by TrevorHannant View Post

                                                Oh I did read and understood thanks hence my reply...
                                                😉 Dont feed the trolls 😉 MSFS in this state for me is for VR Flights around the world because of the well designed grafics.
                                                I even could recognize my parents house 😊 For serious flight i'll stay at P3D and PMDG, FSLabs, Majestic, A2A,Maddog,..
                                                Hope the 777 will be released soon...
                                                Keep flying
                                                Robert Stephan

                                                Comment


                                                • Mickel
                                                  Mickel commented
                                                  Editing a comment
                                                  Heeey! VR flights are serious. The consequences if it goes bad are the same. None of this traffic separation by ATC lark... 'Proper' VFR flights are hard work: all this flying, navigating and communicating stuff on your own.

                                                  (just pullin' ya leg... I know what you mean)

                                                • elgreco111
                                                  elgreco111 commented
                                                  Editing a comment
                                                  Sorry bad wording english is not my native language. I mean if you want to fly commercial airliners like Boeing or Airbus as real as it is you stay at P3D

                                                Originally posted by airifr View Post
                                                Dear PMDG,

                                                Let's not getting complacent with the used FSX and P3D, Microsoft Flight Simulator is back!
                                                Let's work FORWARD with Microsoft Flight Simulator, this should be PRIORITY now, not P3D..
                                                Originally posted by RR


                                                Unfortunately what we didn’t count on was just how big that work-load would be on the platform side or how slow the update rate would be. The bottom line is that while we still remain convinced that MSFS will be the long-term best-platform for simming over the next decade, there are still some major technical challenges that remain to be solved before it can adequately support a product as complex as NG3
                                                they are stuck. there's nothing more they can do with MSFS. they cant prioritize it because it's not usable yet.



                                                Mike Teague - p3dv5 - B736 B737 B738 B739 B744 B748

                                                Comment


                                                  alright once again like ive said it in the past no matter how much PMDG helps, its in ASOBOs hands. If Asobo doesn't want lets say this community (far as PMDG is concerned) they will take their time. The more and more i see released from ASOBO is that they told the sim community what they wanted to hear VS what it was ment to be, The largest open world map in a VIDEO GAME. Now dont start with that a sim is a video game because if you think that then MSFS is right where you want to be. Anyways ASOBO is starting a new project with MS so im curious to see how active they will be going forward with MSFS throughout the year(s).
                                                  Last edited by Swaluver88; 06Oct2020, 15:11.
                                                  Alex Kulak
                                                  PMDG Studier and flyer

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