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Any Hope for a 787?

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    Any Hope for a 787?

    I know PMD’S plate is very full given the current and exciting state of flight simming. Despite that, I’m throwing the question out there...Is there a plan to bring the 787 into PMDS’s hanger? A study level Dreamliner is sorely missing from the hobby. Although it has a common type rating with the 777 and it’s operation is very similar, what is going on behind the scenes is a quite different. It would no doubt be a huge undertaking.
    That said, will my dream of a PMDG Dreamliner ever come true?
    Thanks,
    Don
    Donald Spence

    #2
    from PMDG? no.
    Michael Backes
    ---------------------

    Comment


    #3
    "Any Hope for a 787?"

    I see at least 5 reasons why there is no hope for 787 any time soon.
    777 update, bringing fleet to MSFS, GFO, MAX, hotfixes/updates to the existing fleet
    Matthew Chalupniczak

    Comment


      #4
      What's wrong with QW787?
      Swapnil Sirdeshpande

      B.Engg (Aeronautics)

      Comment


        #5
        QW787 is a great plane. they did a really good job on it. however a PMDG one wouldnt hurt for whats coming in the future
        Alex Kulak
        PMDG Studier and flyer

        Comment


          #6
          Originally posted by Dzosef View Post
          "Any Hope for a 787?"

          I see at least 5 reasons why there is no hope for 787 any time soon.
          777 update, bringing fleet to MSFS, GFO, MAX, hotfixes/updates to the existing fleet
          I see at least one reason why there is a hope for a PMDG 787:

          They have an unannounced airliner project in the background currently.
          Anton Vind
          CPU: i9-9900K, GPU: RTX 2080 SUPER, RAM: 32 GB DDR4 3600 MHz, Drives: 2 TB SSD

          Comment


          • Anton Vind
            Anton Vind commented
            Editing a comment
            Your point was that because they work on all the things you mention, there can't be a 787 soon. My point is that they probably in fact are working on the unannounced airliner project whilst simultaneously working on the things you mention. It's not like you have to complete updates/conversions first and then you can begin working on a new project, you can do both at the same time.

          • Swaluver88
            Swaluver88 commented
            Editing a comment
            Robert is great at giving keywords as clues. Just polluting that out there for the next time he releases a new update. Speaking of it has been a while since one

          • Anton Vind
            Anton Vind commented
            Editing a comment
            Yeah well he has also indicated a couple of times that they are working a lot on it

          #7
          Originally posted by Swaluver88 View Post
          wouldnt hurt
          now, i dont work for PMDG so i dont know how they run their business. However, having a business myself, i can tell you that having 2 like products (or at least 2 very similar products) in a niche market like this, is a bad idea. QW did a good job and it's a great plane, so from a business perspective it makes little sense to invest all that time when they have more pressing things to accomplish. Keep in mind, it has to be profitable.

          Michael Backes
          ---------------------

          Comment


            #8
            Originally posted by elmucki View Post

            now, i dont work for PMDG so i dont know how they run their business. However, having a business myself, i can tell you that having 2 like products (or at least 2 very similar products) in a niche market like this, is a bad idea. QW did a good job and it's a great plane, so from a business perspective it makes little sense to invest all that time when they have more pressing things to accomplish. Keep in mind, it has to be profitable.
            The issue I have with the QW787 is that there's still some core features missing that they need to implement (and of course, proper failures simulation and more customisation), and given that I've become very accustomed to the excellent EFB and airport map of the PMDG 747-8, it makes the QW787 seem amateur, though at least they're trying to get more features implemented.
            Craig Norman

            Comment


              #9
              Originally posted by elmucki View Post

              now, i dont work for PMDG so i dont know how they run their business. However, having a business myself, i can tell you that having 2 like products (or at least 2 very similar products) in a niche market like this, is a bad idea. QW did a good job and it's a great plane, so from a business perspective it makes little sense to invest all that time when they have more pressing things to accomplish. Keep in mind, it has to be profitable.
              im really referring to another future product than a PMDG 787
              Alex Kulak
              PMDG Studier and flyer

              Comment


              • VoyagerP3D
                VoyagerP3D commented
                Editing a comment
                Hype Hype Baby

              • Swaluver88
                Swaluver88 commented
                Editing a comment
                Definitely

              #10
              Also PMDG weren’t the first ones to develop a 737, 747 or 777, yet they’ve done all of them. CS already has a 777-200ER to offer, yet PMDG just mapped out a strategy to develop theirs. So just because someone else have already developed an aircraft, then it does not mean someone else can’t.

              Also the 787 has a lot in common with the 748 and 777 - planes PMDG already have done. Also commonality with the 737 MAX, which is rumored to be done as well. As for being profitable, I think it absolutely would be.
              Anton Vind
              CPU: i9-9900K, GPU: RTX 2080 SUPER, RAM: 32 GB DDR4 3600 MHz, Drives: 2 TB SSD

              Comment


                #11
                you guys will kill me for this. But I'd rather see something we don't have a decent alternative for. The A220
                Dave Gray

                Comment


                • Swaluver88
                  Swaluver88 commented
                  Editing a comment
                  CS100* airbus just slapped their name on it and called it good

                • micstatic
                  micstatic commented
                  Editing a comment
                  very true. I can't wait to fly on one as a pax

                #12
                Originally posted by micstatic View Post
                you guys will kill me for this. But I'd rather see something we don't have a decent alternative for. The A220
                Oh boy.....PMDG cheating on big Boeing jets? That'd be interesting...

                Probably PMDG will stick with their current fleet until they'll settle down on MSFS, only then new aircrafts' projects can be done.
                Giovanni D. Tarar
                FAA CPL+IR Single & Multiengine Land
                I love flying when I'm in a bad mood

                Comment


                  #13
                  Not so sure. While there is that unannounced project we all know Robert‘s weakness for classic airliners and 1,5 years ago or so he asked in the forum what we would like to see for future simulator projects now that they have improved their processes. I believe he said he would love to do a 727 or a classic 747. That‘s one reason why I‘m curious.

                  now QW did a really good job simulating the 787 if you keep in mind the price and... yep, the are not PMDG. It‘s sufficient for a huge amount of people and while there is room for PMDG it‘s not THAT big. Compared to the AS A320 which is really just an evening jumper and the highly detailed FSL version. Or a CS 757/767 and a PMDG version. That‘s lightyears. Or Justflight 742 and PMDG. Or.... you get it. They even did a DC6 and the DC3 was an airliner too. Or a Vickers, or a Caravelle... there‘s a LOT that - I‘m sure - the PMDG team would love to do. The 787 might be a logical step keeping their 777 updates in mind, but I wouldn‘t put my money on it. In the end we‘ll probably be happy with any new PMDG airplane
                  i7-6700k, GTX 1080TI, 32GB DDR4 RAM @2666MHz, 4k
                  Marc Ehnle

                  Comment


                    #14
                    QW787 now uses Navdata for the EFB and rivals PMDG EFB. The QW787 is a solid "A+" in my book and is VERY smooth to fly.
                    Paul Gugliotta

                    Comment


                    • micstatic
                      micstatic commented
                      Editing a comment
                      The FPS issue with the altitude / speed scrolling tape keeps it from getting that high of a grade for me. Some don't care. But very annoying to me.

                    • B747Man
                      B747Man commented
                      Editing a comment
                      I do think they did a good job with the 787, especially for the price however I seem to have issues with the EFB glitching when I try and enter info on the Landing Performance page where it will delete the data I am putting in as I type it or when I click on the next field I tried asking on their forums but didn't seem to get much help.

                    • Tbarker1989
                      Tbarker1989 commented
                      Editing a comment
                      it is overpriced in my opinion.

                    #15
                    Originally posted by snsb789 View Post
                    What's wrong with QW787?
                    I have huge respect for the developers of the QW787. What they have achieved is amazing and in a relatively short time frame. They haven't been at this since '97. From a graphics standpoint the aircraft is beautiful and it can be fun to fly. I don't regret buying it at all. It's the best any developer has to offer. What's discouraging is while they add cool features (EFB, Navigraph, Dispatcher enhancements), the nuts and bolts of the systems are not there.
                    The VNAV system just doesn't work properly and that is how this airplane was meant to be flown. If VNAV doesn't do what you ask or does the opposite of what you ask, you're not really flying the plane. It's flying you. Also FLCH is not an FMA. FLCH SPD is.
                    Emulating the systems of a complex aircraft has to be a daunting task. I don't have what it takes. But it can be done. We're discussing this on the Forum of the folks that have it figured out. Do a preflight of the QW787 with the synoptic pages up and the FCOM open. Watch what happens vs what should be happening. Quick example. Fuel balancing on the ground. You can pump fuel from one side to the other with the pumps off. You can fuel balance with the engines running (inhibited on the ground with engines running). All of this is OK if your "playing" Prepar3d. But if you want to simulate operating a 787, it can't be done with the QW787.
                    Reading through Quality Wing's Forum I've read developer's comments that they are always making improvements. I applaud that and look forward to them. I've also read not to expect to buy a Ferrari from an Audi dealer. The Devs have mentioned a number of times that the detail I'm describing doesn't meet the demands of their core market and thus doesn't warrant the time investment. I believe if QW produced a study level 787, they could charge PMDG prices and not just recoup their investment but make a profit. Their Forum posts indicate that's not likely to happen.
                    That is why I posed the original question.

                    Happy Flying!
                    Don Spence
                    Donald Spence

                    Comment


                      #16
                      Personally, i'd love to see them make the 737-300 -> 500 as and when they get the time and scope for another project, such an iconic aircraft.... even a fully- fledged 757 too because captain sim is overpriced with so many bugs; but of course these are just dreams for now until they PMDG drastically expand. looking forward to how they build for msfs.

                      Comment


                        #17
                        Originally posted by Ephedrin View Post
                        In the end we‘ll probably be happy with any new PMDG airplane
                        I do agree. Right now, if I had to give an opinion on PMDG's next steps, I'd say to finish the 777, and bring all their fleet to MSFS, but after that, I think that any new PMDG aircraft will be so much fun to fly.
                        Honestly, I would like another Boeing, like the 727, 757, 767, or 787, but since there already are some choices of that in the market, probably it's not the most logical step. Anyway, as for now, PMDG has my full trust, and it'll be hard to make it go down, so unless they rip us off with an awful job (very unlikely), I'll still buy anything that comes out of tha house.
                        Giovanni D. Tarar
                        FAA CPL+IR Single & Multiengine Land
                        I love flying when I'm in a bad mood

                        Comment


                          #18
                          Originally posted by Wrap23 View Post

                          I have huge respect for the developers of the QW787. What they have achieved is amazing and in a relatively short time frame. They haven't been at this since '97. From a graphics standpoint the aircraft is beautiful and it can be fun to fly. I don't regret buying it at all. It's the best any developer has to offer. What's discouraging is while they add cool features (EFB, Navigraph, Dispatcher enhancements), the nuts and bolts of the systems are not there.
                          The VNAV system just doesn't work properly and that is how this airplane was meant to be flown. If VNAV doesn't do what you ask or does the opposite of what you ask, you're not really flying the plane. It's flying you. Also FLCH is not an FMA. FLCH SPD is.
                          Emulating the systems of a complex aircraft has to be a daunting task. I don't have what it takes. But it can be done. We're discussing this on the Forum of the folks that have it figured out. Do a preflight of the QW787 with the synoptic pages up and the FCOM open. Watch what happens vs what should be happening. Quick example. Fuel balancing on the ground. You can pump fuel from one side to the other with the pumps off. You can fuel balance with the engines running (inhibited on the ground with engines running). All of this is OK if your "playing" Prepar3d. But if you want to simulate operating a 787, it can't be done with the QW787.
                          Reading through Quality Wing's Forum I've read developer's comments that they are always making improvements. I applaud that and look forward to them. I've also read not to expect to buy a Ferrari from an Audi dealer. The Devs have mentioned a number of times that the detail I'm describing doesn't meet the demands of their core market and thus doesn't warrant the time investment. I believe if QW produced a study level 787, they could charge PMDG prices and not just recoup their investment but make a profit. Their Forum posts indicate that's not likely to happen.
                          That is why I posed the original question.

                          Happy Flying!
                          Don Spence
                          I pretty much agree with you, the indepth simulation, even if it‘s things you‘d probably never need in reality, makes PMDG addons so worthy. Sometimes I don‘t even fly but just sit at the ramp and try what happens here and there, if I do this, if I don‘t do that. That‘s not possible in QW‘s 787. But I dare to say that „we“ who play around like this are the minority of customers. Probably most of them are happy to get a 747 from A to B without having to fly or „play around“ too much. I don’t want to sound mean, but that’s the CS level, then there are those who take care of correct procedures and flight modes but wouldn’t want to handle emergencies or get to know the pneu system down to the correct valves in the reversers. Those are probably the QW level... And then there are the curious people who grin like little kids at Christmas when they find that they can run a maintanance test of their electrical systems, wonder why there are differences in the level of hydraulic fluid between left and right systems and want to find the differences and master warnings of each failed engine. Those are the guys who get the most value out of their 140$ PMDG plane. Sure, the QW guys have fun with the PMDG too but they wouldn‘t mind to pay less and sacrifice the hydraulic fluid. So I don‘t know if a PMDG 787 would really pay out or if „most“ people would rather get the QW 787 as it‘s fully suficient for them.
                          i7-6700k, GTX 1080TI, 32GB DDR4 RAM @2666MHz, 4k
                          Marc Ehnle

                          Comment


                            #19
                            I'd take a PMDG 787 any day. I've tried to "love" the QW, but there's just something I can't put my finger on that makes it impossible.
                            David Porrett
                            Sea Pilot
                            CPL, ME, CFI, IFR
                            Mooney M20M (G500/GTN)

                            Comment


                              #20
                              I think we all agree If PMDG made a787 we would all buy it and it would be a beauty.
                              Paul Gugliotta

                              Comment


                                #21
                                Originally posted by Paulyg123 View Post
                                I think we all agree If PMDG made a787 we would all buy it and it would be a beauty.
                                heck yea, if they did any variation of any plane most would buy asap... however, that would require insane amount of resources
                                Michael Backes
                                ---------------------

                                Comment


                                  #22
                                  Originally posted by elmucki View Post

                                  heck yea, if they did any variation of any plane most would buy asap... however, that would require insane amount of resources
                                  You mean work and paychecks more than what you normally get. Has to correct your verbasion
                                  Alex Kulak
                                  PMDG Studier and flyer

                                  Comment


                                    #23
                                    Originally posted by Wrap23 View Post
                                    I have huge respect for the developers of the QW787. What they have achieved is amazing and in a relatively short time frame. They haven't been at this since '97. From a graphics standpoint the aircraft is beautiful and it can be fun to fly. I don't regret buying it at all. It's the best any developer has to offer. What's discouraging is while they add cool features (EFB, Navigraph, Dispatcher enhancements), the nuts and bolts of the systems are not there.
                                    The VNAV system just doesn't work properly and that is how this airplane was meant to be flown. If VNAV doesn't do what you ask or does the opposite of what you ask, you're not really flying the plane. It's flying you. Also FLCH is not an FMA. FLCH SPD is.
                                    Emulating the systems of a complex aircraft has to be a daunting task. I don't have what it takes. But it can be done. We're discussing this on the Forum of the folks that have it figured out. Do a preflight of the QW787 with the synoptic pages up and the FCOM open. Watch what happens vs what should be happening. Quick example. Fuel balancing on the ground. You can pump fuel from one side to the other with the pumps off. You can fuel balance with the engines running (inhibited on the ground with engines running). All of this is OK if your "playing" Prepar3d. But if you want to simulate operating a 787, it can't be done with the QW787.
                                    Reading through Quality Wing's Forum I've read developer's comments that they are always making improvements. I applaud that and look forward to them. I've also read not to expect to buy a Ferrari from an Audi dealer. The Devs have mentioned a number of times that the detail I'm describing doesn't meet the demands of their core market and thus doesn't warrant the time investment. I believe if QW produced a study level 787, they could charge PMDG prices and not just recoup their investment but make a profit. Their Forum posts indicate that's not likely to happen.
                                    That is why I posed the original question.
                                    Not to mention how long it took for them to solve some of the issues. Since day 1, my biggest gripe was the fact that if you clicked out of the simulator window, you lost the system sounds (you still had engine sounds). That very much ruined the immersion since I have to click out of the simulator window to get charts and what not. Their initial response was there was no way to solve the problem. I countered their claim by stating that PMDG managed it somehow. They eventually solved it with the latest update, but it took several attempts to ask, several updates, and several clarifications before they finally got it....a few years later.
                                    Captain Kevin

                                    Kevin Yang

                                    Comment


                                      #24
                                      It's amazing .to read what some of you write. What's your purpose in life? I wonder.
                                      Mats Johansson, PMDG Flight Test, ESSA | P3D v5 | Asus Prime Z270-A, Intel i5-7600K 4.8GHz, nVidia GTX 1070 8GB, 2x8GB gSkill 3600 MHz DDR4

                                      Comment


                                        #25
                                        Originally posted by mats0916 View Post
                                        It's amazing .to read what some of you write. What's your purpose in life? I wonder.
                                        Drinking. Work. Kids, wife, retirement, financially stable. And other hobbies I love

                                        Most importantly being happy with my life
                                        Alex Kulak
                                        PMDG Studier and flyer

                                        Comment


                                          #26
                                          Originally posted by mats0916 View Post
                                          It's amazing .to read what some of you write. What's your purpose in life? I wonder.
                                          I don't know if I really have one. All I do is drive a truck all day.
                                          Captain Kevin

                                          Kevin Yang

                                          Comment


                                          • mats0916
                                            mats0916 commented
                                            Editing a comment
                                            Nah. Need to know basis.

                                          #27
                                          Can't we just get through the pile of stuff that needs do get done first??????
                                          Charles Harris KRTS The Valley of Speed
                                          ASUS ROG Strix B450-F, Ryzen 3700X, 1TB 970 Neo M2,1TB SSD, RX 5700XT 8GB, 32GB DDR4 3200

                                          Comment


                                            #28
                                            Originally posted by DavidP View Post
                                            I'd take a PMDG 787 any day. I've tried to "love" the QW, but there's just something I can't put my finger on that makes it impossible.
                                            I couldn't agree more. I really want to love that jet, but I just can't. Probably the interior lighting. I really hate it.

                                            Scott
                                            Kendall Scott Mann
                                            Still Telling Pilots Where To Go!!!

                                            Comment


                                              #29
                                              There is a lot more wrong with the QW 787 than just the terrible lighting.
                                              To me it feels closer to a 767NG than the jet i fly for a living.
                                              It misses the "feel" and theme of the 787 because without modelling many of its truly advanced features either at all or incorrectly you only get to see about 25% of what the jet has to offer.
                                              The big thing missed is integration of all the various approach types and how it all integrates as a package.
                                              IAN, RNAV,LNAV/VNAV,RNP AR,GLS, ILS etc.
                                              Numerous features of those approaches are missing or simply incorrect in implementation and thats very disappointing.
                                              The 787 is the first aircraft truly designed from a pilots view to easily fly every type of new approach which has come into play over the last 20 years. And not only that but to present the information on the status of the aircrafts position etc in an integrated manner thats easy to understand and assimilate rapidly.
                                              The refinement of the HUD to a great tool, the extensive communications suite which is far more accessable for the crew to use is missed entirely as well.
                                              The HUD in the QW 787 is basically unusable as their rendition of the bird ie the FPV jumps around all over the place losing one of its greatest assets. Guarranteed smooth landings, well almost!
                                              Now the QW 787 is still ok but if i continually find myself disappointed when flying in in the sim.
                                              The door remains firmly open for a great 787 to be done by Pmdg we can only hope they decide to walk through so you guys can see what the 787 is really like to fly.

                                              Darren Howie

                                              Comment


                                                #30
                                                Agree, the QW787 seems really basic/simplified to me, almost like a default aircraft (sry to say). The sound environment inside the cockpit is simply not advanced enough, but rather simplified and almost sound like a default aircraft inside the flightdeck. It does not capture the feel of a 787 at all. I have flown it once and quickly figured out that that was not an addon for me, after all the issues I encountered with it. But it all depends upon what you as a simmer want. I go really deep in simulation and want to use all the advanced feature in the FMC for example, and I like when the aircraft is replicated on a 1:1 scale if technically possible.
                                                Anton Vind
                                                CPU: i9-9900K, GPU: RTX 2080 SUPER, RAM: 32 GB DDR4 3600 MHz, Drives: 2 TB SSD

                                                Comment

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