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Disappointed with FS 2020

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    And this is precisely why I bought the cheapest version of the simulator. I'll probably uninstall most of the airplanes.
    William Holland

    Comment


      Originally posted by wjh308 View Post
      And this is precisely why I bought the cheapest version of the simulator. I'll probably uninstall most of the airplanes.
      yes, there isn't much more-value when you get the premium or deluxe or whatever. some of the hand made airports are quite ok but Dubai for example (I don't know which version includes it) is not worth it. Those airports that will be done again by ORBX or others seem to be discounted anyway. I got LOWI again for 9€ or so. I'll survive it.

      Unfortunately at the moment you can't uninstall the default airplanes, they will be downloaded again next time you start the sim. I tried to delete the Boeings, didn't work out too well
      i7-6700k, GTX 1080TI, 32GB DDR4 RAM @2666MHz, 4k
      Marc Ehnle

      Comment


        Well, the only argument i can think of is that if you want Flight Simulator to be "perfect" you will pay more than that of the current price... You will NOT get study level aircraft (let alone multiple), a perfectly coded sim with no problems, or any other add ons for what you paid for it now. Instead, you will get decently working sim, with some okay planes, and that's about it.

        Keep in mind one thing, we all have been here before and done this dance... Some are new to this and never experienced this before... The sim is tailored to them. Not the extremists like us who demand the very best... am i wrong?
        Michael Backes
        ---------------------

        Comment


          Originally posted by SpeedForce View Post

          Well then let me modify my statement. Replace PMDG aircraft real with the phrase "PMDG aircraft are closed to real or as real as it's possible on a desktop computer system can offer". In contrast to that what Asobo made is a toy flight model. You just take off & find your freaking house inside their eye-candy flashing state of the art ai powered 90 GB of pure awwwwww.

          & also PMDG aircraft doesn't bounces up & down like every single freaking aircraft in MSFS. So yeah that is good enough for the definition of "real" to me.
          Alas, we still DON"T have PMDG to fly in FS2020. When we do, we will have PMDG quality flying within the new sim. Until then, we can either a. Fly the default aircraft we like b. post on every non FS2020 forum why we don't like the default (insert object here) and how it does not compare with what we are accustomed to.

          Here is the REAL bottom line. FS2020 give us a BASE...a very very very GOOD base..upon which we can build our hobby and personal enjoyment going forward. Anyone who expected the 747 to be as good as the QoS needs a BHU checkup. Anyone who expected the A320 to be FSLabs or Aeorsoft good ditto. However, if you strip ALL of your stuff out of P3D, XPlane, or heaven forbid FSX and compare STOCK/DEFAULT to STOCK/DEFAULT no of the earlier sims has a leg to stand on. Also, if you expect your X year old computer to run new programs flawlessly, there is a problem in that line of thinking. You cannot get something different by doing everything the same way. That's insanity.

          My specs new computer
          i7-9700KF
          MSI GTX 2070 Super
          16 Gb Ram
          No over clocking just turbo on cpu

          FS2020 runs butter smooth for me v-synched and locked to 30. I run all sliders at ultra. No matter the airport, time of day, weather, aircraft available. Butter smooth and amazing.
          Mark "Crabby" Crabtree AAL311 | PHL

          Comment


            Originally posted by elmucki View Post
            Well, the only argument i can think of is that if you want Flight Simulator to be "perfect" you will pay more than that of the current price... You will NOT get study level aircraft (let alone multiple), a perfectly coded sim with no problems, or any other add ons for what you paid for it now. Instead, you will get decently working sim, with some okay planes, and that's about it.

            Keep in mind one thing, we all have been here before and done this dance... Some are new to this and never experienced this before... The sim is tailored to them. Not the extremists like us who demand the very best... am i wrong?
            You are not wrong. The extremists are here, and over on the DCS World sim. What I think happens is that people for what ever reason, couldn't fly the real thing, so the only thing they have is the simulator. To put that kind of pressure on a simulator to fulfill that need is quite extreme on everyone involved.
            William Holland

            Comment


              Originally posted by wjh308 View Post

              You are not wrong. The extremists are here, and over on the DCS World sim. What I think happens is that people for what ever reason, couldn't fly the real thing, so the only thing they have is the simulator. To put that kind of pressure on a simulator to fulfill that need is quite extreme on everyone involved.
              Agreed, however to some extent I'd feel people looking for that level of Realism need to also understand its going to take time, for as long as I can remember I've used FS2004, FSX, P3D all versions to fill that void for me for years as I never had the chance to become an Airline pilot in real life, however I very much love P3D and FS as both helped me immensly when I started to learn to Fly IRL for my PPL, so yeah its possible to learn from a Flight sim and I have no doughts in my mind FS2020 is going to do the same, people just need to understand that FS2020 is a base to be built apon as it is right now all be it the default aircraft arn't bad compared to Previous sims they are not A2A etc and anyone that expected them to be that need a reality check. I love FS2020 so far and can see so much potential moving forward just waiting on the addons to flow in which will take time, but for now I'm enjoying Cross country in the SR22 and DA40. been linking up my Sky demon app using Sim connect and running flights I've done in my DA40 in sim
              James Bartlett
              Avid Flight Simulator Enthusiast and Private Pilot.

              Comment


                I think the sim is more advanced than the vanilla P3D, FSX or X-plane simulators. It took decades of Payware, player or community made addons to get those where they are at now. Even tho the current airplanes are very basic and gamey compared to what we're used, it's enjoyable and pleasing to the eye. But I do look forward to more realistic content.
                Last edited by MotleyAces; 07Sep2020, 03:50.
                Raymond Cooksey

                Comment


                  Originally posted by JamesB93 View Post

                  Agreed, however to some extent I'd feel people looking for that level of Realism need to also understand its going to take time, for as long as I can remember I've used FS2004, FSX, P3D all versions to fill that void for me for years as I never had the chance to become an Airline pilot in real life, however I very much love P3D and FS as both helped me immensly when I started to learn to Fly IRL for my PPL, so yeah its possible to learn from a Flight sim and I have no doughts in my mind FS2020 is going to do the same, people just need to understand that FS2020 is a base to be built apon as it is right now all be it the default aircraft arn't bad compared to Previous sims they are not A2A etc and anyone that expected them to be that need a reality check. I love FS2020 so far and can see so much potential moving forward just waiting on the addons to flow in which will take time, but for now I'm enjoying Cross country in the SR22 and DA40. been linking up my Sky demon app using Sim connect and running flights I've done in my DA40 in sim
                  Totally agree with you, I'm loving it and just waiting for some study level and fixes to those bugs
                  Wayne Such

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by elmucki View Post
                    Well, the only argument i can think of is that if you want Flight Simulator to be "perfect" you will pay more than that of the current price... You will NOT get study level aircraft (let alone multiple), a perfectly coded sim with no problems, or any other add ons for what you paid for it now. Instead, you will get decently working sim, with some okay planes, and that's about it.

                    Keep in mind one thing, we all have been here before and done this dance... Some are new to this and never experienced this before... The sim is tailored to them. Not the extremists like us who demand the very best... am i wrong?
                    Nope - not wrong. Prepar3d and MSFS2020 are indeed designed for very different markets. MSFS2020 for Xbox and entertainment (where I am certain it will sell very well) and Prepar3d for us pilots (real or imagined!).
                    Patrick Bell, Sr. USA
                    Home-built DFI LanPartyJr X58 MB, Intel i7-920 (OC'd to 3.8GHz), Triple-Channel Corsair 12 GB DDR3 3200 RAM, Samsung EVO 860 1TB SSD, nVidia GTX 1070 Founder's Edition, MS WIN 7 64-bit Ultimate.
                    P3D v4.5. PMDG products: ALL

                    Comment


                    • Cristi Neagu
                      Cristi Neagu commented
                      Editing a comment
                      P3D is not designed for you. It says it in big bold letters that it's not designed for home simulation.

                    I'm afraid that I have to disagree. MSFS2020 is indeed aimed at the gaming crowd, and that isn't a bad thing. However, that is only part of it's focus. MSFS2020 is also squarely aimed at the hardcore flight sim crowd. What we have currently is a flight simulator that is easily accessible to anyone with or without any prior experience with flight simulators, and that is built upon a solid foundation that (once the SDK is completed and some kinks are ironed out) third-party developers and the rest of the community can use as a platform to create what I believe will be some truly incredible products for us.

                    Is it currently where all of us here would like it to be? No. Will it get there eventually? Yes. When it does, will I leave Prepar3d completely? Absolutely, and in a heartbeat. Am I prepared to repurchase my PMDG, Aerosoft, etc. products again for MSFS2020? Most definitely. Will my wallet complain about that? Pretty much the same way it does every time I've purchased these products previously.

                    If we don't want our little niche hobby to stagnate like it has been doing for the past decade, we need to bring in some new blood, so to speak. Prepar3d and X-Plane have made some improvements to what we have had available to us, but for the most part nothing has really changed for years. MSFS2020 promises to shake things up by providing a flight simulator that hardcore simmers like us can enjoy, while it is still accessible to people who just want to fly around and have fun. Those two objectives are not mutually exclusive, and from what I have seen so far I believe that MSFS2020 has the potential to make our little niche hobby explode in popularity. In the months leading up to the release of MSFS2020, I had conversations about it with numerous co-workers who previously had never expressed an interest in flight simming, but who are now genuinely interested in giving it a try. And if some portion of those not-so-hardcore simmers eventually turn into hardcore simmers, well then MSFS2020 will have succeeded with what I believe its ultimate goal is: to help rejuvenate and grow our little niche hobby. We just have to have the patience and faith to believe that it will get to where it needs to be in order to accomplish that.
                    Tim Lincoln
                    My YouTube Channel

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Want2BFlyin View Post
                      If we don't want our little niche hobby to stagnate like it has been doing for the past decade,.

                      i dont know what your hobby is, but my little niche hobby (flying on vatsim) has been doing just fine without msfs. set all time records this spring that go back 20 years.





                      Mike Teague - p3dv4.5 - B736 B737 B738 B739 B77L B77W B744 B748

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by kvuo75 View Post
                        i dont know what your hobby is, but my little niche hobby (flying on vatsim) has been doing just fine without msfs. set all time records this spring that go back 20 years.
                        I am referring to the size of our hobby in terms of the entire scope of the video game industry. And yes, flight simming is ultimately a part of the video game industry. Sure, if you look at flight simming only in relation to itself, then everything looks fine. However, once you look at it in relation to the entire industry, you can see how insignificant our hobby truly is. Yes, VATSIM has set some records recently, and I am in no way trying to downplay those records. What do you see if you compare VATSIM's number of concurrent users on its busiest day with the number of concurrent users who are playing, say, Call of Duty or Fortnite on a daily basis?

                        When you look at our hobby from that perspective, things look quite a bit bleaker. It's easy to say "But we don't care about those gamers, we just want to do our own thing over here." However, if a new developer were looking for an industry to start creating content for, they would look at the size of our hobby and simply say "It isn't big enough, we won't be able to grow as much as we would like." In my opinion, the biggest reason for Microsoft abandoning the flight sim industry so many years ago was because it was so small. At the time they probably didn't see a future for our hobby and saw other areas where they could achieve a bigger return on their investment. So we end up just being stuck with the developers we currently have, which is certainly not a slight against PMDG or any of the other excellent developers who have been creating content for us over the years. Sure, we occasionally get a new developer that shows up, but I can't remember the last time an aircraft developer "wow"ed me the way that PMDG did when I first purchased their 737 product years ago (perhaps PMDG made me set the bar for what I consider to be acceptable too high).

                        Yes, we have some good third-party developers in our little community that are dedicated to flight simming and continue to innovate wherever they can. Until MSFS2020 came around, they were doing so within an archaic framework (primarily referring to FSX and Prepar3d), but now they can really spread their wings (sorry for the pun) in a truly modern flight simulator. I believe that in 6-12 months we will start to see some amazing aircraft becoming available. And not just aircraft. Think about the potential market for MSFS2020. Since it is included in the Xbox Game Pass, that is somewhere north of 10 million potential people who will try it out (I don't know the exact current number, but that is the ballpark figure I was able to find). It is also available on Steam, which is another potential 125 million people (again, just a ballpark figure). Those are numbers that could make existing developers in the video game industry stop and take a look at our hobby and say "You know what, we might be able to make some money over here now." These are developers who have some incredibly talented people working for them, and to be honest I would not be at all upset if someone like Activision-Blizzard or Electronic Arts were to announce that they are putting together a small team to create detailed airports, or even entire photo-realistic cities (because let's face it, even some of the best looking cities in MSFS2020 could still use some work), for MSFS2020. And I am certainly willing to do what I can to help convert some of the "gamers" that come to try out MSFS2020 into full blown "flight simmers." Can you imagine what it would be like on VATSIM if there were to be 2-3 times more people online as there were when they set their most recent record? And what if that were to happen every day and not just during major network events? That is what I am hoping that MSFS2020 can do for our little hobby by bringing in a large number of new people who haven't been interested in flight simming before, and then converting a few of those people into new flight sim enthusiasts. To misquote Field of Dreams: "If you build it, they will come." In this case I think "they" refers to not only new dedicated flight simmers, but new developers (to the flight sim industry) as well.
                        Last edited by Want2BFlyin; 09Sep2020, 17:55.
                        Tim Lincoln
                        My YouTube Channel

                        Comment


                          i basically have said the following thing somewhere else recently, but I really doubt there's this vast new group of simmers-to-be that have just been waiting for new graphics all these years before they'd get involved in flight sims. if people were interested, they'd already be interested. people know flight simulators existed before august 18th.

                          I also don't think there's going to be huge growth, because when you get right down to it, for the average person, civilian flying is boring. looking at scenery is boring. the new platform is basically a glorified google earth so far and it's already wearing off for most of those newcomers.. you can see the viewer drop off on twitch. you can only go look for your own house about one time before it gets old.

                          so maybe there's a few new converts out there but like i said i really doubt it's a huge number, i really doubt we're going to see 2-3x the users on vatsim.. i think it's been pretty flat even since the msfs simconnect bug got patched.

                          i haven't written msfs off though. i still have this gut feeling there is great potential there and we just havent seen it yet.







                          Mike Teague - p3dv4.5 - B736 B737 B738 B739 B77L B77W B744 B748

                          Comment


                          • Dannnnn
                            Dannnnn commented
                            Editing a comment
                            Well there aren't really any IFR Vatsim capable aircraft in the sim at the moment. I say really since you can use them but it won't be pleasant, as soon as something changes you'll need to ask for vectors since the flight computers don't quite behave themselves beyond inputting an initial route. As far as VFR goes it's still a bit of a pain because as much as I'd love to do full CTAF but there's always the requirement to have 122.8 tuned. So whether it's even worth tuning the local frequency I have no idea since people may A - not be on it B - not know it even exists

                          122.8 is the global ctaf for vatsim. they havent implemented the actual local freq's yet
                          Mike Teague - p3dv4.5 - B736 B737 B738 B739 B77L B77W B744 B748

                          Comment


                          • Captain Kevin
                            Captain Kevin commented
                            Editing a comment
                            I just turn the simulator's ATC volume all the way down, then you won't hear it. If you're flying on VATSIM anyway, the simulator's default ATC volume won't have an impact for you.

                          • Want2BFlyin
                            Want2BFlyin commented
                            Editing a comment
                            Obvious solution is obvious. I have no idea why I didn't think of that. Thanks for the tip.

                          • kvuo75
                            kvuo75 commented
                            Editing a comment
                            if you install and get mildly acquainted with ADE you can just go in and change the frequency in seconds. it will never bug you (even with scrolling text, etc) again

                          Originally posted by Cyrus View Post
                          I was an Alpha tester and am loading the Delux version as I type. I am rather disappointed with FS2020. At present it seems just like a game than a simulator. I have all the PMDG Aircraft on FSX and am getting 40 to 50fps and reasonable scenery using Orbx. However with FS2020 I am only getting a maximum of 24FPs if I use medium settings and approx 21 to 22 fps when settings are set to High. I am just wondering how this Sim would work once the PMDG aircraft are introduced. Compared to PMDG aircraft the one’s that come with Fs2020 are a joke. Perhaps we are spoiled with quality.
                          I have I7-9700 4.7mhz 32gig Ram 3200mhz - RTX 2070- Monitor C49RG90Resolution: 5120 x 1440 QHD and 80mbs broadband and I can’t figure out how people are claiming they are getting 60FPS on 4K monitors.
                          I have been flying since it came out. Been flying MS simulators since 95. It is heads above FSX and P3Dv5.2 as for graphics. I have already bought airports and aircraft. My Carenado 182T will outperform the base AC. Even the Garmin outperforms the default on navigation. As with all the other flightsims, you must grade it as a BASE to run the addons. As far as your computer stats vs your performance it does not make since. My system is going on 2yrs and it does great.

                          It just doesn't make since what you are saying. For me, I have flown PMDG since they offered their addons. I am waiting on their new release if it takes 2 years.

                          Lawrence Hickerson
                          Retired
                          Aurora 7, i7-8700K @ 3.7 GHz, GTX 1070 Ti
                          Last edited by Lawrence H; 10Sep2020, 19:41.

                          Comment


                            i am happy with P3DV5 i have spent too much time and money on it to jump into MSFS2020 maybe some day but not right now.

                            Comment


                            • Lanica
                              Lanica commented
                              Editing a comment
                              That's me. Time to fly airplanes instead of chasing sim Narvana.

                            Originally posted by elmucki View Post

                            Gladly... Forums from the developers directly. No BS there, no guessing no fake news there
                            This: https://forums.flightsimulator.com/c...discussion/164

                            Is not a more complete resource than FSDeveloper. However, perhaps you've not done any development for flight simulators and have no point of reference.

                            That you use terms like BS and fake news tells me you might not have spent any time at the FSDeveloper site either.
                            Jeff Bea

                            I am an avid globetrotter with my trusty Lufthansa B777F, Polar Air Cargo B744F, and Atlas Air B748F.

                            Comment


                              I'm not familiar with the FSDeveloper forums. However, I am very familiar with some developer forums for the video game industry. I can say with some certainty that even though there are some people in those forums who know what they are talking about, the majority of people there, especially the more vocal ones, generally (but not always) tend to be not quite as knowledgeable as they claim to be. I can't say for sure that the same is true on the FSDeveloper forum, but since I have seen the same pattern displayed on other developer forums, I wouldn't be surprised if the same is true there as well.

                              I'm not trying to say that you shouldn't believe anything that you see discussed on the FSDeveloper forums. Just be wary of someone making specific statements and/or claims (on those forums, or anywhere, really) unless you are absolutely certain that they have the experience and knowledge to back them up. In my experience, people who know what they are doing would be more likely to be quietly discussing problems with the creators of whatever software is giving them trouble rather than loudly bashing the software in a public forum.
                              Tim Lincoln
                              My YouTube Channel

                              Comment


                                Found this thread and thought id share this mod link which reduces the impact on CPU of instrumentation updating (it helps with FPS).

                                https://www.nexusmods.com/microsoftf...lator/mods/109

                                Comment


                                  I had my initial frustrations with MSFS but after figuring out some hardware issues I gotta say I'm blown away.

                                  I've spent thousands of hours in the front seat of real transport category airplanes, typed in multiple jets, and obviously spent a ton of time in Level D sims. There are moments, especially in the king air 350 for example where I'm astonished by the realism compared to P3D and FSX. Sure, the flight model has its bugs but they'll be ironed out and when PMDG planes come this will be the ultimate set up BY FAR.

                                  No sim will ever recreate the sensation of flight. It's simply impossible. That being said, I think MSFS2020+PMDG is going to get as about as close as you can without Level D, and will be even better than Level D graphics wise.

                                  -Nick mansfield

                                  Comment


                                    Nick, I absolutely agree with you. Not even a Level-D sim can replicate a real flying aircraft and it‘s not modelling the systems‘ behaviour 100%. They come very close, no doubt, but there‘s still this dynamic difference. Also their flight models are far from real aircraft but those simulators are not meant to teach people to fly, they are procedure sims and shall simulate the airplane, not flight.

                                    MSFS2020 has already received such a huge amount of addons for the scenery (bridges, airports, mountains) and so many community tweaks (hide the huge cockpit tooltips, reduce the exaggerated tree size, aircraft improvements etc) that the sim has become a pleasure to fly in and I need to force myself back to P3D for some productive flights ^^. I love it and I can‘t wait for PMDG, A2A etc to land there
                                    i7-6700k, GTX 1080TI, 32GB DDR4 RAM @2666MHz, 4k
                                    Marc Ehnle

                                    Comment


                                      Originally posted by Ephedrin View Post
                                      Nick, I absolutely agree with you. Not even a Level-D sim can replicate a real flying aircraft and it‘s not modelling the systems‘ behaviour 100%. They come very close, no doubt, but there‘s still this dynamic difference. Also their flight models are far from real aircraft but those simulators are not meant to teach people to fly, they are procedure sims and shall simulate the airplane, not flight.

                                      MSFS2020 has already received such a huge amount of addons for the scenery (bridges, airports, mountains) and so many community tweaks (hide the huge cockpit tooltips, reduce the exaggerated tree size, aircraft improvements etc) that the sim has become a pleasure to fly in and I need to force myself back to P3D for some productive flights ^^. I love it and I can‘t wait for PMDG, A2A etc to land there
                                      They actually try to get the Level D full motion sims to fly as accurately as possible because you can do a complete type rating in them which includes V1, V2 cuts, windshear recovery, stall recovery, unusual attitudes, system failures, flight control failures, etc. They are also used to reset peoples currency on landings. I am still WAITING to start my IOE on the 777, so can't comment on it, but the 747-400 sims flew just like the real thing. And with fly by wire, and even older systems like the 747-400, the feel the pilot has on the control column is artificial to begin with. A computer determines what is felt which is a good thing for simulators because that means real data exists for such things.
                                      They aren't just procedural trainers. We have procedural trainers with some resembling a Level D simulator without the motion platform, to setups that look like what a flight simmer would have at home.
                                      If given a chance you should try to get into one.
                                      William Holland

                                      Comment


                                      • Ephedrin
                                        Ephedrin commented
                                        Editing a comment
                                        A type rating yes... but you already CAN fly, when you train in a sim for a rating. You know what an airplane does and feels like when you do „things“. They come close, but it‘s still just code.

                                      With a complete aerodynamic data set, its not hard for a skilled FT engineer to make a flight model that's good enough for maintaining currency, provided the appropriate hardware is available.
                                      Jonathan Bleeker

                                      Comment


                                        I have the deluxe version and I will keep it updated but went back to X-Plane 11 till the PMDG 737 gets released. The planes are so basic and the ATC is real bad IMO.

                                        JeffG
                                        https://forum.pmdg.com/forum/Signatu..._747_Pilot.jpg

                                        Comment

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