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Disappointed with FS 2020

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    Disappointed with FS 2020


    I was an Alpha tester and am loading the Delux version as I type. I am rather disappointed with FS2020. At present it seems just like a game than a simulator. I have all the PMDG Aircraft on FSX and am getting 40 to 50fps and reasonable scenery using Orbx. However with FS2020 I am only getting a maximum of 24FPs if I use medium settings and approx 21 to 22 fps when settings are set to High. I am just wondering how this Sim would work once the PMDG aircraft are introduced. Compared to PMDG aircraft the one’s that come with Fs2020 are a joke. Perhaps we are spoiled with quality.
    I have I7-9700 4.7mhz 32gig Ram 3200mhz - RTX 2070- Monitor C49RG90Resolution: 5120 x 1440 QHD and 80mbs broadband and I can’t figure out how people are claiming they are getting 60FPS on 4K monitors.


    #2
    I hated it during the alpha. In fact used it for an hour a few times then just deleted it completely. Now it's starting to grow on me. I'm getting good performance mostly. However in the A320 out of JFK it was bad. I run 4k 3840x2160 but with the scaling in the sim set to 70%. Ultra settings. Vsync on/60. Then in Nvidia Control Panel I change my refresh rate to 30hz. So I lock to 30hz. I'm also using max AA since I have a big 4k tv. We will see what that is like when the real planes come out. One thing I'm noticing is that this sim wants a nice card. My 1080ti i will be selling when the 3090ti comes out. I could be wrong, but i'm also noticing that while my GPU isn't maxing out that often, the vram is. Which i know in DX11 will cause stutters. If MSFS switches to DX12 we will need big time vram for it.
    Dave Gray

    Comment


    • steveyb
      steveyb commented
      Editing a comment
      Microsoft and all pc companies are all in bed together, ...funny Scan computers have just gone up about 30% ! Do you remember when FSX came out, blimey people couldnt even run it, pc hardware companies made a fortune

    • Kevin Hall
      Kevin Hall commented
      Editing a comment
      FSX was intended to take advantage of future component performance. Microsoft said this at the time but still people complained they couldn't run with sliders fully to the right. PC prices are not driven by one game.

    • Cyrus
      Cyrus commented
      Editing a comment
      I would wait prior to upgrading. So many people have difficulties currently using 1080ti. Mine is only RTX2070 and I just spent £200.00 upgrading my ram from 16 to 32. The only diff is that Ultra settings won't crash but will only give me a frame rate of 10 to 15

    #3
    It's the early days but yes, the "final" version (which incidentally looks 100% like the latest beta), performs quite worse than the latter. There must be something wrong that will eventually get fixed.

    Like FSX, the first release isn't all that great, but give it some time. Right now it's not good, but it's one hell of a starting point. I hate the game-feel that goes around and all the logos at the start, but i guess i can live with that if, with time, it gets to the level of Prepar3D v5 regarding usability.

    I'm not moving a finger right now because it's of no interest to me, but i feel that in ~1 year or so i too will probably be moving into MSFS. It's the future (at least that's what it looks like right now). Meanwhile, many many many nm to be flown in v5.
    NUNO PINTO
    Ryzen 7 3700X @ 4.4GHz · 16GB DDR4 3600 · nVidia GTX1080Ti · Fully Watercooled

    Comment


    • Cyrus
      Cyrus commented
      Editing a comment
      I agree with your comment. its best to wait

    #4
    how do you view frame rates? What keys do you press? Shift Z does not get you there.
    Paul Gugliotta

    Comment


    • Cyrus
      Cyrus commented
      Editing a comment
      Shift Z only works on my FSX. For the rest I use MSI Afterburner.

    #5
    So as an alpha tester did you tell them the issue before release?
    Alex Kulak
    PMDG Studier and flyer

    Comment


    • Cyrus
      Cyrus commented
      Editing a comment
      Yes I did. Microsoft was more interested in selling the image of a wonderful Flight Simulator. The videos and promotional stuff on youtube raised many expectations. I was more interested to push them to have PMDG get on board. My entire simulator which I built is based on all PMDG aircraft. It took years to do and is still not complete. Without the offsets and FSUIPC ...I am unable to use the FS2020 as I wish. i am basically treating it as sightseeing game. Not a serious sim.

    • Swaluver88
      Swaluver88 commented
      Editing a comment
      lol for the $$$$$$$ I figured.

    • skyymann
      skyymann commented
      Editing a comment
      I also did the alpha and beta. I will not buy it. At least not yet. Gonna need to see some PMDG and Aerosoft birds there first. The scenery developers seem to be moving at lightning speed, but no aircraft that I have any desire to fly.

    #6
    It's gonna perform bad initially. Remember FSX? Lord have mercy that was a trash release.

    Give it time. As for the interface, it will grow on you. Gone are the days on the ALT menu.

    Comment


    • Cyrus
      Cyrus commented
      Editing a comment
      I tend to agree with you. But I expected that a modern sim would perform far better than a 20 year old sim I am using currently.

    #7
    I'm experiencing pretty much the same. Can easily reach 35/40fps in P3D with high graphics and complex add-ons aircrafts+airports, but my pc struggles to keep 20fps on MSFS even in a C172! It makes me wanna give up on flying with all those stutters and micro-freezes.
    As many have stated above, it's surely something that will be fixed soon enough, and hopefully it'll make in barely enjoyable.
    Giovanni D. Tarar
    FAA CPL+IR Single & Multiengine Land
    I love flying when I'm in a bad mood

    Comment


    • Cyrus
      Cyrus commented
      Editing a comment
      I agree with you. Time will tell. But without PMDG aircraft this sim is simply a game for me.

    #8
    Hello All,

    especially on older CPUs some serious stutters and pauses are reported and was also my case with i7 4770K with HT off. After 7 years I've turned on HT and it significantly helped with Sim performance, I can say I'm very happy (NYC,London area on High end settings with all aircraft under any condition running smooth 30fps, locked externally in Nvidia CP and using Fast sync instead of internal Vsync) I'm using 1080 Ti 11GB and 32GB RAM.

    Rado
    Radoslav Rabatin

    Comment


    • Cyrus
      Cyrus commented
      Editing a comment
      I will try the settings you suggested. Thank you

    #9
    Just as we installed the first version of FSX back in the day, and P3D after it, the first version was not as good..
    Not many addons, tons of issues with drivers/frames and crashes to desktop.
    Its a new sim, I got P3Dv5 as soon as it came out and I really felt as an Alpha tester on an unfinished product that until today get VRAM errors because of being rushed out the window.
    MSFS is a great sim, it has a lot of PROS and not many CONS but they need to focus on performance, get all the airports in (they are missing Panama's main airport MPTO) and focus on making it a better product. It will take time.
    I am also getting not many FPS and I have an i7 9770k watercooled, 32gb ram, RTX 2070 and even on High, not Ultra I get stutters... micro stutters all the way even over the ocean.. so definately they will have to improve it.
    Teofilo Homsany

    Comment


    • Cyrus
      Cyrus commented
      Editing a comment
      I have the same system as yours with the same issues. That's why I raised it on the Forum. I am just wondering how the sim will work once PMDG aircraft are installed as they take a heavy load on Framerates

    #10
    Guys,

    There is a good performance monitor in the Developer mode in MSFS. Select Developer mode ON in the Options|General|Developers menu.
    That will bring a new menubar at the top of the screen. Select the menu Options and check Display FPS. You will see something like this:

    Annotation 2020-08-19 224122.png

    The disturbances you see on MainThread, RdrThread and Mani0pulators bars are due to activating the Snip tool. Otherwise my system (spec in my signature) is GPU limited with these settings below:

    Annotation 2020-08-19 223940.png

    The performance seems sketchy though when changing settings on the fly and it seems sometimes it just goes down the drain.
    With VSYNC ON my performance seems best if I select 60 FPS which is also my refresh rate.
    But the bottom line is that mostly I get decent performance out of my not so impressive rig with rather high settings.

    YMMV

    Cheers,
    Mats Johansson, PMDG Flight Test, ESSA | P3D v5 | Asus Prime Z270-A, Intel i5-7600K 4.8GHz, nVidia GTX 1070 8GB, 2x8GB gSkill 3600 MHz DDR4

    Comment


    • Cyrus
      Cyrus commented
      Editing a comment
      I tried going into the development mode and set it to on. I certainly don't get what you got on your screen regarding frame rates. It just says development Mode on and next to it there is a description. You must have a special version of this sim. There is no new menubar at the top of the screen. nor is there an Options to check Display FPS.

    • mats0916
      mats0916 commented
      Editing a comment
      That is indeed strange. I assume I have the same version as everybody else.

    • Eleuth
      Eleuth commented
      Editing a comment
      You can also use fraps.It is free and works good

    #11
    I agree that the aircrafts leave much to be admired. Cannot wait for PMDG, Captain Sim, FSLabs, etc.. to release compatible aircrafts. The scenery in the sim is amazing. The night flying is exactly what I was waiting for.

    Stephen

    Comment


      #12
      I admit being very underwhelmed initially. First hour I didn't realise I wasn't even downloading, but after re-installing the 'Package' from MS Store, The download started and chugged along between 9-12MB/s (Upper limit of my Fiber connection)

      Initially, I was quite.... appalled at how 'toy'ish' the menus and layout seemed... but as I've used it a bit more and gotten used to the Cameras and Menus, I've softened and started appreciating it a bit more. There's certainly still a lot of things that need to be fixed of implemented (Switch main application to Metric/Kilos/Hectopascals, Fixing of Active Pause 'loss of aircraft control plus a few more)

      I am honestly surprised though. It seems to handle 4K Resolution on my system vastly better than P3D. Maybe it's because I don't have any Addons yet. The default aircraft are... well, They're defaults.

      I'm running an i7 8700K (Clocked at 4GHz, Hyperthreading Enabled) - GTX 1080, 16GB 3000MHz DDR4 - Running at 4K Resolution. I get on average 20-30FPS.
      The game suggested "High" settings and I'm happy with High for the time being. Even when it drops to 20fps, I don't really get any stutters.


      All in all, I know there's a lot of people having a huge number of issues but I've been pretty lucky (I wasn't involved in the preview builds) and we're still pretty much in the initial days. I suspect moving forward - Once all the major stuff starts getting ironed out - There will be a lot of people eating their words about how bad this is. I am not at the point of uninstalling P3D, but I definitely won't be spending any more money on it at this point.

      I am massively excited for the coming months. Nvidia 3000 series isn't too far off now and I'm looking forward to seeing the PMDG 777 in this sim.
      Brendan Richards
      PMDG Customer Since 2005

      Comment


        #13
        I'm loving it. The C208 is great fun to fly and I'm getting 65FPS+ in the GA aircraft and no less than 35 in any of the jets. Save for the 787 which appears to have wild performance issues :P. And also cases of stutter which wasn't there in the pre-release builds. Either way it's only up from here, addon aircraft, DX12, everything. It's going to be good.
        Daniel Glover

        Comment


          #14
          Originally posted by CBT_Phoenix View Post
          I'm experiencing pretty much the same. Can easily reach 35/40fps in P3D with high graphics and complex add-ons aircrafts+airports, but my pc struggles to keep 20fps on MSFS even in a C172! It makes me wanna give up on flying with all those stutters and micro-freezes.
          As many have stated above, it's surely something that will be fixed soon enough, and hopefully it'll make in barely enjoyable.
          This isn't P3D at high settings, the graphic demands are much higher. With the new flight model flying the C172 is going to be much more demanding on your PC than it was in P3D with it's simpler model. However it's very early days so performance may improve in time.

          Comment


            #15
            ok, since its out, lets put this out too. Just like any other SIM... GIVE IT TIME. FS9, FSX, FSW etc all needed service packs to improve. Some received more than others, but at the end, made it really enjoyable. Also, keep in mind, to use the sim to the fullest, one needs a heck of a computer. Flight Simulator is not FSX reworked (similar to P3D, P4D and P5D) but a complete redo from scratch, so there are kincs to work out and things to improve.
            Michael Backes
            ---------------------

            Comment


              #16
              Hi all,
              I decide to stay at p3d for a while. Since the new sim is not stable. I found there's no difference with fps between high and ultra settings. Both of them i would get 35fps in cockpit and 40fps external. My specs are i9-9900k rtx2080super 32G 2k 2560×1440. Also, the default aircraft still have some issues. And i think the cloud in msfs2020 is worse than it in p3dv5. Maybe i will go there when pmdg release 737NG3.

              Tieyuan Sun
              Last edited by Tieyuan Sun; 20Aug2020, 00:03.

              Comment


                #17
                how do you display FPS in FS2020?
                Paul Gugliotta

                Comment


                • Tieyuan Sun
                  Tieyuan Sun commented
                  Editing a comment
                  you can use Xbox game bar to display fps.

                  Tieyuan Sun

                • mats0916
                  mats0916 commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Paul, please go back to post #10. I explained it there how to use FSMS internal performance monitor.

                #18
                Originally posted by elmucki View Post
                ok, since its out, lets put this out too. Just like any other SIM... GIVE IT TIME. FS9, FSX, FSW etc all needed service packs to improve. Some received more than others, but at the end, made it really enjoyable. Also, keep in mind, to use the sim to the fullest, one needs a heck of a computer. Flight Simulator is not FSX reworked (similar to P3D, P4D and P5D) but a complete redo from scratch, so there are kincs to work out and things to improve.
                Except I go to FSDeveloper and folks "in the know" say it is exactly "FSX reworked." https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/th...6/#post-851184
                Jeff Bea

                I am an avid globetrotter with my trusty Lufthansa B777F, Polar Air Cargo B744F, and Atlas Air B748F.

                Comment


                • Cristi Neagu
                  Cristi Neagu commented
                  Editing a comment
                  By this point it is entirely obvious that the flight model, the weather model, and the graphics engine at the very least are all brand new. So if you want to call it "FSX reworked" you kinda have to contend with the "ship of Theseus" paradox.

                • ahuimanu
                  ahuimanu commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Awesome reference!

                  I don't think all the guts will be replaced - which is probably exactly why some "old favorites" in the scenery and light-sim aircraft category were ready to go at launch.

                #19
                I really cannot relate to this. I am running a 6 year old computer: i7 5820k, GTX 980ti, 32gb of RAM. I have the sim set to high end and the worst framerate i got was 20fps in New York with the TBM (I don't much care for the default liners). In more common backcountry VFR conditions, with the G1000 Cessna, i'm getting a constant 35fps. It looks like this may be caused either by old drivers (nvidia released new drivers yesterday for MSFS compatibility), or some weird config clash. Either way, all i can say so far is that MSFS is beautifully optimized.
                Cristi Neagu

                Comment


                • Eleuth
                  Eleuth commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Nice. I have almost the same setup. Only a 960 GTX and running 2K.
                  Get 20 to 30 fps depending on the place I fly.
                  No stutters at al and very smooth..
                  With prepar3d I get 15 to 20 fps and at busy places it dropped under 15.

                #20
                It might be nothing, but I found this guide to be particularly helpful for me: https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t...18-2020/132407
                Nevertheless, it's still a just-launched simulator. The time will make it improve. Microsoft and Asobo will definitely work hard on this, as they aimed to a much larger public (rather than just flight-sim enthusiasts), and many more people will suffer from a bug or a performance issue.
                Giovanni D. Tarar
                FAA CPL+IR Single & Multiengine Land
                I love flying when I'm in a bad mood

                Comment


                • CBT_Phoenix
                  CBT_Phoenix commented
                  Editing a comment
                  You're very welcome I'm glad to hear that

                • exstense
                  exstense commented
                  Editing a comment
                  It is a fantastic guide. Follow up his recommendations, look at the images included and tweak your pc step by step.
                  I have an i7 6700k @4Ghz, 16MB and a gtx1080. So it is a moderate pc. I did all of his recommendations and have appr. 32 fps, which give me a smooth experience. No micro stuttering

                • CBT_Phoenix
                  CBT_Phoenix commented
                  Editing a comment
                  exstense, I have an i7 6700k as well and a RTX2080S, and I really struggled with stutters, freezes and average of 20fps. After following that guide I could really start enjoying the sim. It's amazing the job that guy did! Really impressive

                #21
                Originally posted by ahuimanu View Post

                Except I go to FSDeveloper and folks "in the know" say it is exactly "FSX reworked." https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/th...6/#post-851184
                lmao, thats far from the know how.... Take a look at the how FSX is structured and Flight Simulator... TOTALLY Different. Now, if you said FSX is a rework of FS9, i would believe you, but not here. I would get my news from more reliable sources.

                I mean cmon, thats like asking google when you should be going to the doctor...
                Last edited by elmucki; 20Aug2020, 13:19.
                Michael Backes
                ---------------------

                Comment


                  #22
                  Cyrus, I'm surprised you're having such low frames. I'm using an i9-9900K, 32Gb and an RTX 2070, so fairly similar setup, but I'm able to hit between 50 and 60fps on Ultra out in the countryside, and still manage 35-45 even over somewhere like Manhattan. The only difference I can see is that I'm only running at 1920x1080 as opposed to your 1440p ultrawide. I'm pretty happy with it. The whole thing looks gorgeous and actually performs much better than I FSX ever did for me. As for the included aircraft, there's no point in comparing them to PMDG or any other big aircraft dev. The default planes in any flight sim nave never matched up to the realism you get from other places, and I thinks that's fair. The B744 from PMDG for example is $100 on its own. You can't expect that sort of quality from the base sim costing between $60 and $110. If they put planes of that standard in then you'd have to pay 10 times the price. I've always regarded most sims purely as an engine and environment into which I inject the planes I want to fly.

                  Comment


                    #23
                    Originally posted by frostycab View Post
                    Cyrus, I'm surprised you're having such low frames. I'm using an i9-9900K, 32Gb and an RTX 2070, so fairly similar setup, but I'm able to hit between 50 and 60fps on Ultra out in the countryside, and still manage 35-45 even over somewhere like Manhattan. The only difference I can see is that I'm only running at 1920x1080 as opposed to your 1440p ultrawide. I'm pretty happy with it. The whole thing looks gorgeous and actually performs much better than I FSX ever did for me. As for the included aircraft, there's no point in comparing them to PMDG or any other big aircraft dev. The default planes in any flight sim nave never matched up to the realism you get from other places, and I thinks that's fair. The B744 from PMDG for example is $100 on its own. You can't expect that sort of quality from the base sim costing between $60 and $110. If they put planes of that standard in then you'd have to pay 10 times the price. I've always regarded most sims purely as an engine and environment into which I inject the planes I want to fly.


                    Please add a signature to your profile in order to ensure that your posts are signed, real name first and last.. You were advised/agreed to this requirement when initially establishing an account. Thank you!

                    https://forum.pmdg.com/forum/main-fo...pdated-25feb19
                    Chris Makris (Olympic260)
                    PMDG Technical Support
                    http://www.pmdg.com

                    Comment


                      #24
                      I have to agree with most on here. The vast majority of "low FPS" I think people are getting is from bad settings on their end, not the sim. I just did a flight from DFW - DAL in the default A320 (so glass cockpit) using *ULTRA* settings and never saw below 25FPS. For decades, ~24FPS has been the "minimum" for FS flight. Anything above that is great, anything below, and you may have problems with things like FBW on more advanced sims. Anyone who tells you that you "need" 60FPS is thinking of First Person Shooters where 60FPS is desired because you're doing reaction shots, so having higher FPS is key since many of the best players are making shots based on a single frame of visibilty by an opponent. FS isn't that twitchy.

                      BTW, I don't have a "top end" rig. Here's my specs -

                      AMD Ryzen 7 3800X
                      X570 AORUS Elite
                      GeForce GTX1080 FTW 8GB GDDR5X
                      32GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4 2666
                      1TB WD Blue SSD

                      I've found that the Majority of slow-downs in modern games is actually your Hard Drive. Switching all your intensive memory programs to an SSD or getting something like an Intel Optane that gives your HDD a SSD-like cache, can make a massive difference. Also, utilizing your settings properly. Using "Medium" on many new games actually shifts more of the work onto your CPU because the program believes your shortfall is the Graphics Processor (thus your lower graphics setting). Actually having a HIGHER graphics setting many times will actually gain you performance since it allows your GPU to do more work, especially if you have a current gen card (GTX 10 Series or RTX 20 Series ).

                      Here's a couple pics from my flight -

                      image_7918.jpg
                      image_7919.jpg

                      MSFS2020-2020-aug-20-008.jpg
                      Attached Files
                      Chris Trott

                      Comment


                        #25
                        My 7700K 1080ti with Nvidia recommended settings nets me about 45 fps at 4k. My 10750h / 2070 Super gets 60 fps at 1080. I can make the sim crawl and I can make it fly with graphic settings. Runs a heck of a lot better than FSX ever did. P3D is still king though for FPS.
                        William Holland

                        Comment


                          #26
                          Originally posted by Cyrus View Post
                          I was an Alpha tester and am loading the Delux version as I type. I am rather disappointed with FS2020. At present it seems just like a game than a simulator. I have all the PMDG Aircraft on FSX and am getting 40 to 50fps and reasonable scenery using Orbx. However with FS2020 I am only getting a maximum of 24FPs if I use medium settings and approx 21 to 22 fps when settings are set to High. I am just wondering how this Sim would work once the PMDG aircraft are introduced. Compared to PMDG aircraft the one’s that come with Fs2020 are a joke. Perhaps we are spoiled with quality.
                          I have I7-9700 4.7mhz 32gig Ram 3200mhz - RTX 2070- Monitor C49RG90Resolution: 5120 x 1440 QHD and 80mbs broadband and I can’t figure out how people are claiming they are getting 60FPS on 4K monitors.
                          If MSFS came standard with "PMDG-level" aircraft where would that leave PMDG?
                          MSFS devs have repeatedly stated none of their aircraft were ever meant to better the best 3rd party developer aircraft.
                          Do you remember the default 737 in FSX and what we all thought when PMDG's 737 was released?
                          As to performance, FSX cannot offer the graphics quality of MSFS and so making a comparison isn't straight forward. You would have to dial down MSFS to match the typical out of the box FSX level. In fact whenever I fly P3D v5 with the best scenery available I keep thinking as soon as the 737 NGXu & QOTS is released I'm wiping P3Dv5.
                          Albert Sahely

                          Comment


                            #27
                            Originally posted by Cyrus View Post
                            I was an Alpha tester and am loading the Delux version as I type. I am rather disappointed with FS2020. At present it seems just like a game than a simulator. I have all the PMDG Aircraft on FSX and am getting 40 to 50fps and reasonable scenery using Orbx. However with FS2020 I am only getting a maximum of 24FPs if I use medium settings and approx 21 to 22 fps when settings are set to High. I am just wondering how this Sim would work once the PMDG aircraft are introduced. Compared to PMDG aircraft the one’s that come with Fs2020 are a joke. Perhaps we are spoiled with quality.
                            I have I7-9700 4.7mhz 32gig Ram 3200mhz - RTX 2070- Monitor C49RG90Resolution: 5120 x 1440 QHD and 80mbs broadband and I can’t figure out how people are claiming they are getting 60FPS on 4K monitors.
                            The planes in MSFS are not a joke in fact they are pretty advanced. All the small ga airplanes are good, but the one I like the most is the TBM I can load a full flight into the GPS with a SID STAR and Approach. If you want to know what's a joke is the a321 from FSX that airplane was terrible, I remember when that thing came 50 feet to the ground it became extremely sensitive and almost uncontrollable( i guess they were simulating the a320 normal law landing function). Dont get me wrong I love flying pmdg and fslabs and leonardo maddog but I am very content with the TBM and how I can load a SID / STar and approach out of the box and complete an IFR flight. That being said, the only thing wrong with MSFS right now is no Winds aloft data in the US and Live weather not working appropriately. But they are working with meteo blue a very good weather source so I think it should be fixed.

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                              #28
                              PSA: If you have an NVIDIA Graphics Card, update your drivers. They released a new driver on August 17th specifically for Microsoft Flight Simulator (and a few other things).

                              Upon updating my drivers, I actually get higher performance and higher FPS in MFS (high settings) than I do in P3D. I’m getting anywhere from 50 to 60 FPS on steam gauge aircraft and somewhere in the 40s for glass cockpits. I’m running an i7-8750H, GTX1070, 32 GB of 2666 MHz ram, and have MFS installed on an SSD.

                              https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce...-ready-driver/
                              James Ward

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                                #29
                                Loving it but they just need to fix live weather and some scenery anomalies and I'm set.
                                Peter Walsh.

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                                  #30
                                  Originally posted by elmucki View Post

                                  lmao, thats far from the know how.... Take a look at the how FSX is structured and Flight Simulator... TOTALLY Different. Now, if you said FSX is a rework of FS9, i would believe you, but not here. I would get my news from more reliable sources.

                                  I mean cmon, thats like asking google when you should be going to the doctor...
                                  That is a serious community of many of the developers who bring you the add-ons many of us use. I'd HARDLY call FSDeveloper a "quack" source.

                                  The knowledge at FSDeveloper is solid.
                                  Jeff Bea

                                  I am an avid globetrotter with my trusty Lufthansa B777F, Polar Air Cargo B744F, and Atlas Air B748F.

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