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MS 2020 Stutter

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    MS 2020 Stutter

    If you look closely at MS 2020 youtube play through videos, there is a bunch of microstutters still present when flying. It's not perfectly fluid. Hopefully that will be fixed. Still, its a bit worrisome.

    As an example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqFaMi3wVbc

    Look at 2:10 mark. When the airbus is turning to the runway. Looks like it will be a stutter fest allover again.

    Nikita Travkin

    #2
    CAN also be a video rendering problem. Anyway it‘s not a release version. Alpha probably. We‘ll see.
    i7-6700k, GTX 1080TI, 32GB DDR4 RAM @2666MHz, 4k

    Marc Ehnle

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Ephedrin View Post
      CAN also be a video rendering problem. Anyway it‘s not a release version. Alpha probably. We‘ll see.
      Its in alpha til release...
      Alex Kulak
      PMDG Studier and flyer

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Swaluver88 View Post

        Its in alpha til release...
        I'm not entirely sure what you are referring to. It is scheduled to enter Beta in a couple days (and from what I hear those who were in the Alpha have already been given access to the Beta build).

        As for the micro stutters, it is unclear what settings are being used for the video. It is likely that everything here is maxed out to showcase how good everything looks, and I wouldn't be surprised if turning a few settings down slightly would eliminate the stutters. Regardless, I can overlook a handful of stutters in a simulator where the stock aircraft and scenery look as good as some payware add-ons that I would have had to purchase for older simulators.
        Tim Lincoln
        My YouTube Channel

        Comment


        • Swaluver88
          Swaluver88 commented
          Editing a comment
          Closed beta... same as a NDA imo. I think they should have an open beta a let everyone nit pick everything like Lockheed did with p3d v5. And fixed all the major issues in one or two go arounds

        • JamesB93
          JamesB93 commented
          Editing a comment
          to be honest the NDA can have no effect on the Beta its all down to what Microsoft Choose, They can have an NDA on the Closed Beta but also can still have a closed beta with no NDA and allowing the Beta testers to then show off the product as additional marketing

        • Want2BFlyin
          Want2BFlyin commented
          Editing a comment
          To be perfectly honest, I prefer closed Betas. A closed Beta allows a developer to have a more tightly controlled group who are more willing to provide useful feedback. In all of the open Betas that I have participated in for various games, any useful feedback that was provided was inevitably drowned out by useless comments of people complaining that something doesn't the work the way they think it should (which isn't how the developer ever intended for it to work), or that the main antagonist of the game should really be this other character (which doesn't fit at all with the narrative the developer is trying to provide, and it certainly would never be changed at the Beta stage of development), or that the locked door in the first level that forces you to have your first interaction with the antagonist should be a bright blue color instead of the dull gray that it is currently (which doesn't really matter at all), oh, and all of these inane little things are going to cause the game to be "unplayable" and "a complete and utter failure." Meanwhile, the one person who pointed out that they found a way to get outside of the first level towards the beginning of it and completely skip the locked door and first interaction with the antagonist gets completely overlooked.

          On the other hand, the handful of closed Betas that I have participated in have tended to be more focused, with useful feedback being much more common and thus more easily noticeable. That is not to say that there isn't a lot of useless feedback in a closed Beta. It is still there, it just doesn't overshadow the useful feedback nearly as much.

          As for the NDA, as JamesB93 mentioned it is entirely up to Microsoft. They could decide to lift the NDA (or just part of it) a week before release and allow a flood of content to hit the internet just before the new simulator releases. On the other hand (though I think this is unlikely), they could decide to keep the NDA in force indefinitely and prevent anyone in the Alpha or Beta from ever talking about the builds that they had access to during those periods.

        #5
        If your monitor refresh rate is not synchronized to the fps (frames per second) of the GPU you will also experience micro stutters.
        Josef Kolb

        PMDG B737-600 to -900/747-400/747-8/777-200LR/777-300ER

        Comment


          #6
          Originally posted by Cocobellomann View Post
          If your monitor refresh rate is not synchronized to the fps (frames per second) of the GPU you will also experience micro stutters.
          Yep you also see that in other games when moving the view slowly.
          i7-6700k, GTX 1080TI, 32GB DDR4 RAM @2666MHz, 4k

          Marc Ehnle

          Comment


            #7
            I've noticed these micro stutters also in MSFS. I'm pretty concerned about it because they seem to be in almost every video I've seen online. A few people have noticed this on other forums also. I hope it's just an alpha thing, because I could never fly a sim like that. Smoothness and complete lack of stutters is a hard requirement for me. So I will be monitoring this closely. I'm hoping that the theory regarding an alpha having extra monitoring/reporting software being responsible for the stutters is correct. Until then I'm very happy with V5
            Dave Gray

            Comment


              #8
              I believe the version the testers got is also not the full version but just an alpha version so it's gonna be hard to judge until we all have it essentially. I believe the alpha was only a small part of the whole sim
              Alex Farmer A.K.A Goldstar Textures

              Comment


                #9
                Originally posted by micstatic View Post
                I've noticed these micro stutters also in MSFS. I'm pretty concerned about it because they seem to be in almost every video I've seen online. A few people have noticed this on other forums also. I hope it's just an alpha thing, because I could never fly a sim like that. Smoothness and complete lack of stutters is a hard requirement for me. So I will be monitoring this closely. I'm hoping that the theory regarding an alpha having extra monitoring/reporting software being responsible for the stutters is correct. Until then I'm very happy with V5
                I hope its fixed but i have my doubts. I am pretty sure the PC they used to show off MFS 2020 is a monster build and even that stutters

                Nikita Travkin

                Comment


                  #10
                  Originally posted by AlexFarmer View Post
                  I believe the version the testers got is also not the full version but just an alpha version so it's gonna be hard to judge until we all have it essentially. I believe the alpha was only a small part of the whole sim
                  I have a bad feeling this is what we will see in the final build. Whats the point of having maxed graphics if you cant run it. I am pretty sure the PC they used to show off MFS 2020 is a monster build and even that stutters

                  Nikita Travkin

                  Comment


                    #11
                    This is all footage of an Alpha version and it has gone through capture, compression, editing and the YouTube upload compression which is known to be rough. In fact, this particular video consists of already officially released footage, meaning the official footage has been downloaded, edited again and uploaded again. You really can't reasonably conclude what the simulator's performance is like now and what it will be like when it's released based on this.

                    While this particular clip consists of official footage, this is exactly why NDAs exist and why developers try their best to prevent anything from leaking. Any leak is out of context and no background information is known to the public who see the leak and this inevitably leads to wild speculation and conclusions that ultimately can do a lot of bad to any product success.

                    I'm in the Alpha/Beta test program for MSFS and without saying too much I'll let you know that performance is a lot less of an issue than it is with our older sims, so don't worry. MSFS performs well in scenarios in which our older sims would just start to implode. That's not to rain on our current sims btw, I still like P3D and keep it along with MSFS.
                    Niklas Graefe

                    Comment


                      #12
                      Originally posted by threegreen View Post
                      This is all footage of an Alpha version and it has gone through capture, compression, editing and the YouTube upload compression which is known to be rough. In fact, this particular video consists of already officially released footage, meaning the official footage has been downloaded, edited again and uploaded again. You really can't reasonably conclude what the simulator's performance is like now and what it will be like when it's released based on this.

                      While this particular clip consists of official footage, this is exactly why NDAs exist and why developers try their best to prevent anything from leaking. Any leak is out of context and no background information is known to the public who see the leak and this inevitably leads to wild speculation and conclusions that ultimately can do a lot of bad to any product success.

                      I'm in the Alpha/Beta test program for MSFS and without saying too much I'll let you know that performance is a lot less of an issue than it is with our older sims, so don't worry. MSFS performs well in scenarios in which our older sims would just start to implode. That's not to rain on our current sims btw, I still like P3D and keep it along with MSFS.
                      P3D V5 is pretty hard to implode even in the worse scenarios
                      Alex Kulak
                      PMDG Studier and flyer

                      Comment


                        #13
                        Originally posted by threegreen View Post
                        This is all footage of an Alpha version and it has gone through capture, compression, editing and the YouTube upload compression which is known to be rough. In fact, this particular video consists of already officially released footage, meaning the official footage has been downloaded, edited again and uploaded again. You really can't reasonably conclude what the simulator's performance is like now and what it will be like when it's released based on this.

                        While this particular clip consists of official footage, this is exactly why NDAs exist and why developers try their best to prevent anything from leaking. Any leak is out of context and no background information is known to the public who see the leak and this inevitably leads to wild speculation and conclusions that ultimately can do a lot of bad to any product success.

                        I'm in the Alpha/Beta test program for MSFS and without saying too much I'll let you know that performance is a lot less of an issue than it is with our older sims, so don't worry. MSFS performs well in scenarios in which our older sims would just start to implode. That's not to rain on our current sims btw, I still like P3D and keep it along with MSFS.
                        I know more than I'm letting on to. But I too will respect the NDA. I can agree with your point about compression in theory. Here is the problem though. MULTIPLE videos show this stuttering. I'll revise that word. MANY MANY show it. I've seen many P3D videos on youtube that are smooth and do not stutter. So to me, it's not valid to say because it's on youtube and stuttering it's a compression issue. We will see very soon the truth. I think some people see criticism of MSFS as a personal attach. Like a fanboy argument. Me being concerned about the videos I've seen isn't me saying that I think MSFS should fail because P3D is better. Without question I want to see a next generation sim released that's much better than what I have now. However I need to be a realist here. There are concerns.
                        Dave Gray

                        Comment


                          #14
                          Originally posted by Swaluver88 View Post

                          P3D V5 is pretty hard to implode even in the worse scenarios
                          P3D V5 doesn't run anywhere near the level of detail that MSFS runs at. What I'm saying is that if you put that much detail and objects into P3D you wouldn't have a lot of fun while MSFS is handling the amount of detail well. Though V5 runs very well in general thanks to DX12.
                          Last edited by threegreen; 29Jul2020, 16:34.
                          Niklas Graefe

                          Comment


                            #15
                            Originally posted by micstatic View Post

                            I know more than I'm letting on to. But I too will respect the NDA. I can agree with your point about compression in theory. Here is the problem though. MULTIPLE videos show this stuttering. I'll revise that word. MANY MANY show it. I've seen many P3D videos on youtube that are smooth and do not stutter. So to me, it's not valid to say because it's on youtube and stuttering it's a compression issue. We will see very soon the truth. I think some people see criticism of MSFS as a personal attach. Like a fanboy argument. Me being concerned about the videos I've seen isn't me saying that I think MSFS should fail because P3D is better. Without question I want to see a next generation sim released that's much better than what I have now. However I need to be a realist here. There are concerns.
                            That's all correct and I too am not letting myself get carried away with anything regarding MSFS, meaning I've been as realistic as I can since the first announcement. But I refrain from trying to come to conclusions about things as complex as performance based on videos. That said, while obscuring this as much as I can, I don't share performance worries as much based on my testing experience.

                            Edit: The editing and compression theory I put forth is just an example to show why videos can be very misleading in terms of game/sim performance. You can of course have videos that aren't stuttering and haven't suffered much in the process of their development.
                            Last edited by threegreen; 29Jul2020, 16:33.
                            Niklas Graefe

                            Comment


                              #16
                              I hear you. I'm basing this on more than posted youtube videos. But nothing more to say here. We wait now. While some of us have been privy to see the alpha/beta. Very few of us here (myself included) have seen the official release version.
                              Dave Gray

                              Comment


                                #17
                                Relax, if you buy the stutter free subscription you'll be fine. Just an extra 5.99 a month!
                                Zach Alcantar
                                MSI GE75 Raider 9SF laptop -Windows 10 version 1909 -i9-9880H -RTX 2070 8GB -32 GB DDR4 -V5 HF2

                                Comment


                                • Swaluver88
                                  Swaluver88 commented
                                  Editing a comment
                                  with that $60 EA DLC pack!

                                #18
                                I'm not a betting man, but feel it would be safe to assume that it is released before it is finished, and the performance will be leaving many people wishing they had a faster computer. But again, I do not care, I'll be happily running P3D v5
                                William Holland

                                Comment


                                  #19
                                  The shutters are my brain trying to process this amazing graphics I am seeing. This looks great.
                                  Paul Gugliotta

                                  Comment


                                    #20
                                    Originally posted by Paulyg123 View Post
                                    The shutters are my brain trying to process this amazing graphics I am seeing. This looks great.
                                    Can't wait to see the attempt at things like the ProLine 21 avionics.
                                    Zach Alcantar
                                    MSI GE75 Raider 9SF laptop -Windows 10 version 1909 -i9-9880H -RTX 2070 8GB -32 GB DDR4 -V5 HF2

                                    Comment


                                      #21
                                      Originally posted by micstatic View Post
                                      I hear you. I'm basing this on more than posted youtube videos. But nothing more to say here. We wait now. While some of us have been privy to see the alpha/beta. Very few of us here (myself included) have seen the official release version.
                                      I think its pointless to have amazing beautiful graphics, that you need super computer to run on. I would rather sacrifice beauty for stable and fluid and optimized FPS. However most people in the FS world think that FPS is pointless and go for beauty which I find weird.

                                      Nikita Travkin

                                      Comment


                                        #22
                                        It got the point of what a sim is meant to do vs what its supposed to look like. Do you think the CAE sim runs off of bing maps or they care about the trees? Lol no they strive for study level aerodynamic physics and systems. Now that i.said that does anyone know if its a single physic engine where every product has to share it or can an add on have their own to add into it?
                                        Alex Kulak
                                        PMDG Studier and flyer

                                        Comment


                                          #23
                                          Originally posted by Swaluver88 View Post
                                          It got the point of what a sim is meant to do vs what its supposed to look like. Do you think the CAE sim runs off of bing maps or they care about the trees? Lol no they strive for study level aerodynamic physics and systems. Now that i.said that does anyone know if its a single physic engine where every product has to share it or can an add on have their own to add into it?
                                          Indeed the CAE sims only operate for IFR operation within certified aircraft performance, thus realistic scenery or physics outside of flight envelope etc aren't of interest. That isn't true for a desktop simulator which is supposed to be a solid platform for various kind of aeronautical activities. Of course we'll judge after a full release, but the advertised aerodynamic & weather model seems be a very good base for such objectives (particular wx which feels practically a non-issue for flying in the current sims).

                                          Adding a bit of personal opinion, I too felt that satellite maps was just eye-candy before I got into my flight training, now I only use X-Plane for VFR flight because it's not always possible to find good coverage even from payware P3D addons (and fly by visual is fun too
                                          Yuchen LENG

                                          Comment


                                            #24
                                            Originally posted by Mike1992 View Post

                                            Indeed the CAE sims only operate for IFR operation within certified aircraft performance, thus realistic scenery or physics outside of flight envelope etc aren't of interest. That isn't true for a desktop simulator which is supposed to be a solid platform for various kind of aeronautical activities. Of course we'll judge after a full release, but the advertised aerodynamic & weather model seems be a very good base for such objectives (particular wx which feels practically a non-issue for flying in the current sims).

                                            Adding a bit of personal opinion, I too felt that satellite maps was just eye-candy before I got into my flight training, now I only use X-Plane for VFR flight because it's not always possible to find good coverage even from payware P3D addons (and fly by visual is fun too
                                            I just think this hype was about the eye candy more than the environmental and flight physics strive. Its hard when you do this as a hobby and training and people get hyped up for something that themselves don't even know what the final release is gonna be like. Yea yeah cool you have the alpha/closed beta. But one wrong line of code can make the sim go from where it was to worse on a release version. Think everyone has to settle down a bit who has the alpha/closed beta and start to really nitpick the sim so when it does get released its not buggy or incomplete or etc. Time for them to do their jobs as testers for the rest of us. We are all counting on your testers.
                                            Alex Kulak
                                            PMDG Studier and flyer

                                            Comment


                                              #25
                                              I have a super computer. I want to see those giraffes in Africa. Who cares about landing!,,
                                              Paul Gugliotta

                                              Comment


                                                #26
                                                Originally posted by Paulyg123 View Post
                                                I have a super computer. I want to see those giraffes in Africa. Who cares about landing!,,
                                                Just don't hit the giraffe on landing.
                                                Captain Kevin

                                                Kevin Yang

                                                Comment


                                                  #27
                                                  Originally posted by Swaluver88 View Post
                                                  Think everyone has to settle down a bit who has the alpha/closed beta and start to really nitpick the sim so when it does get released its not buggy or incomplete or etc. Time for them to do their jobs as testers for the rest of us. We are all counting on your testers.
                                                  Oh there's more than enough nitpicking to the point it gets annoying, rest assured.
                                                  Last edited by threegreen; 29Jul2020, 22:37.
                                                  Niklas Graefe

                                                  Comment


                                                    #28
                                                    Originally posted by threegreen View Post

                                                    Oh there's more than enough nitpicking to the point it's gets annoying, rest assured.
                                                    Nitpicking on the right things or the things that they want? There's a difference in that also. Notice how I'm nitpicking . Prime example. Nitpick their nitpicks
                                                    Alex Kulak
                                                    PMDG Studier and flyer

                                                    Comment


                                                      #29
                                                      Originally posted by Swaluver88 View Post

                                                      Nitpicking on the right things or the things that they want? There's a difference in that also. Notice how I'm nitpicking . Prime example. Nitpick their nitpicks
                                                      Actual issues and bugs are being brought to attention in the testing forums as they should be. But there are also a lot of eye-roll-prompting posts.
                                                      Niklas Graefe

                                                      Comment


                                                        #30
                                                        Originally posted by Paulyg123 View Post
                                                        I have a super computer. I want to see those giraffes in Africa. Who cares about landing!,,
                                                        i can put giraffes in any p3d airports with ADE. they're already in p3d, just library objects. it takes less than a minute. i can put a whole zoo on the rwy.


                                                        animals p3d.PNG
                                                        Last edited by kvuo75; 29Jul2020, 23:10.
                                                        Mike Teague - p3dv4.5 - B736 B737 B738 B739 B77L B77W B744 B748

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