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Low Performance-Please Help!

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    Low Performance-Please Help!

    Hello,

    I recently built a new rig to run P3D and was super excited to get smooth flights and good frames. I have come to discover that this isn't entirely true for me, however. P3D is running sort of jittery for me and I really struggle to get any more than 30 FPS in the cockpit of complex aircraft like PMDGs and FsLab's. I consistently see people with hardware that isn't as high end as mine run better settings and higher frames and I'm desperate to figure out the bottleneck here. I've posted in a few places to no avail so far so I hope the PMDG crowd can offer some insight. P3D was just reinstalled on my M.2 drive. Thanks in advance!
    Thatcher Burns

    |i7-9700K 5.2 Ghz| EVGA RTX 2080 SUPER BLACK GAMING| G.Skillz 32 Gb DDR4 3600| Corsair H115i|

    #2
    What other add-ons are you using other than PMDG and FSLabs.
    Captain Kevin

    Kevin Yang

    Comment


      #3
      Do you have e.g., the PMDG's copilot's displays On or Off?

      Have you set any of the other Performance options via the PMDG CDU?
      Last edited by von; 09Mar2020, 21:39.
      Vaughan Martell KDTW

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by [email protected]
        TBurns22,
        Your shadow settings will kill your performance. Also, let your video card do the vsync and turn it off in the sim. Keep in mind that FPS in P3D is high relative to CPU performance. There are some tuning guiides out there. Type in google, "Prepar3d v4 tuning". Make sure to make a backup copy of the config file so if you mess it up, you can start fresh. I hope this helps and I'd be glad to help further if needed.

        Cordially,
        Jason Tutwiler
        Jason, I have tried different tuning methods including forcing P3D off of my Core0 as it was incredibly saturated while leaving other cores doing nothing. I have tried various other config tweaks with no luck. As for other addons I run FTX Global, Active Sky weather engine and REX clouds, various FlyTampa, Latin VFR, ORBX, FlightBeam, and Aerosoft airports. I use AiG Ai as well. With the default scenario with F22 I can get around 120 FPS.
        Thatcher Burns

        |i7-9700K 5.2 Ghz| EVGA RTX 2080 SUPER BLACK GAMING| G.Skillz 32 Gb DDR4 3600| Corsair H115i|

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by [email protected]
          TBurns22:
          Do you have another box you can use for the simconnect addons, such as activesky? I would go through all of your plugins and research if they're simconnect compatible and if you have another machine, doesn't have to be as powerful, offset as much as you can with respect to addons. Make sure you have a decent router and/or run something like openWRT (what I run). I'm pretty deep into building a sim that I can divide among multiple computers. So yeah, let me know if you have further questions, give me specs and details and I'll do my best to help. Here's an example. I used to have an old 2011 MBP and I ran windows on Virtualbox to run my simconnect addons. It took a small amount of load away from the sim. Now I'm just spoiled. But yeah, you can do a lot by moving the stuff you can off of the sim machine.

          Jason Tutwiler
          Jason, unfortunately I do not have another PC to run everything remotely, though that would be nice. Am I unrealistic to expect more frames out of my machine though?
          Thatcher Burns

          |i7-9700K 5.2 Ghz| EVGA RTX 2080 SUPER BLACK GAMING| G.Skillz 32 Gb DDR4 3600| Corsair H115i|

          Comment


            #6
            Which ORBX add-ons are you running.
            Captain Kevin

            Kevin Yang

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Captain Kevin View Post
              Which ORBX add-ons are you running.
              Just FTX Global and a handful of airports (Innnsbruck, Arlanda, etc.)
              Thatcher Burns

              |i7-9700K 5.2 Ghz| EVGA RTX 2080 SUPER BLACK GAMING| G.Skillz 32 Gb DDR4 3600| Corsair H115i|

              Comment


                #8
                Thatcher you should have tried it without you addons first as see how you would have went with fps.Now try and disable or uninstall any addons and see how that goes,also do you have the latest video drivers maybe you could revert to the previous ones and see.
                Danny Z.Cebis

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Ausflight View Post
                  Thatcher you should have tried it without you addons first as see how you would have went with fps.Now try and disable or uninstall any addons and see how that goes,also do you have the latest video drivers maybe you could revert to the previous ones and see.
                  Danny, I did try without addons and got around 100-120 FPS on the defauly scenario with the F22. I also used the F22 on Aerosoft Zurich and cranked up the settings slowly. With full right sliders basically, I got 60 FPS pretty easily. When I add in PMDG products (I have all their stuff) or any other "high end" payware (TFDI, FSLabs) thats when my FPS plummets to between 25-30.
                  Thatcher Burns

                  |i7-9700K 5.2 Ghz| EVGA RTX 2080 SUPER BLACK GAMING| G.Skillz 32 Gb DDR4 3600| Corsair H115i|

                  Comment


                  • Ausflight
                    Ausflight commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Maybe someone can chime in who has similar specs to yours and see how there fps is performing and what settings they are using.

                  #10
                  Originally posted by [email protected]
                  I would get benchmarks of the machine running "idle". Figure out what's doing what. LIke windowsstartmenuexperience. gtfooh! That's just dumb and I put it at a very low priority. Now, be careful because certain processes are responsible for IO and if you put them at a low priority it'll take 20 minutes to install the smallest of programs. Been there done that. Take notes, and screenshots. Once you do that, then introduce the sim with no addons, do the same, benchmark. Introduce addons one by one, with each iteration being bench-marked and documented. Start very small and add incrementally and test. Document performance impact. I know this sounds like work and it is, but I come from a world of UNIX/Linux and tuning Oracle databases. I can help even further with the following information:

                  1.) what CPU brand/model
                  2.) how much memory, how fast?
                  3.) What kind of display, what is the connection type?
                  4.) What cooling do you use? Is overclocking an option?


                  I hope this helps and I'm willing to help further with more information. I run ORBX too, a ton of it, and activesky, although its on a different box, but no rex and no miami eye candy for me. To each their own and that's why I provide the information I have. There really isn't a magic performance button, research and testing is required. Again, I'm here to help.

                  Regards,
                  Jason Tutwiler
                  Jason, my specs should be in my signature.

                  EDIT: I see they are not but I run an i7-9700k OC'd to 5.2Ghz. I have 32 GB of 3600 Ram and p3d is on an M.2 drive
                  Thatcher Burns

                  |i7-9700K 5.2 Ghz| EVGA RTX 2080 SUPER BLACK GAMING| G.Skillz 32 Gb DDR4 3600| Corsair H115i|

                  Comment


                    #11
                    Originally posted by [email protected]
                    Tburns,
                    You should be ok. Hmmm, some investigation needs to be done. I really would start from ground zero. YOu don't have to uninstall, you can just disable and do what I mentioned in my previous post.

                    Regards,
                    Jason Tutwiler
                    Jason, I will try this again at some point over the next day or so and report back. Just to clarify you’re saying disable my add-ons and reenable one at a time?
                    Thatcher Burns

                    |i7-9700K 5.2 Ghz| EVGA RTX 2080 SUPER BLACK GAMING| G.Skillz 32 Gb DDR4 3600| Corsair H115i|

                    Comment


                      #12
                      Originally posted by [email protected]
                      Tburns,
                      Correct, you need to identify what is causing the bottleneck / performance issue.

                      Regards,
                      Jason Tutwiler
                      Jason, I tried your method of adding in one thing at a time again. I ran around 60 FPS with Drzwecki(?) Design Chicago airports and City in the F22 which is in my opinion of the most demanding sceneries. Most of my sliders were to the right and I added PMDG 737 NGXu and it dropped to around 30-35 with no ai. I opened resource monitor and it shows core 2 absolutely pegged. (I have process lasso forcing P3D off of cores 0 and 1). The other cores are pretty much idle. I tried using all 8 cores and no difference except the core that was pegged was always the first one that was able to run P3D. I have seen some people say this is normal while others have said an Affinity Mask helps solve this. It appears to me that not all my cores are working that hard. Also I have my PC overclocked to 5.2 Ghz but again resource monitor shows it working at 35% and around 4.75 Ghz, leading me to believe that its being throttled somehow. Any insights?
                      Thatcher Burns

                      |i7-9700K 5.2 Ghz| EVGA RTX 2080 SUPER BLACK GAMING| G.Skillz 32 Gb DDR4 3600| Corsair H115i|

                      Comment


                        #13
                        Originally posted by TBurns22 View Post

                        Jason, I tried your method of adding in one thing at a time again. I ran around 60 FPS with Drzwecki(?) Design Chicago airports and City in the F22 which is in my opinion of the most demanding sceneries. Most of my sliders were to the right and I added PMDG 737 NGXu and it dropped to around 30-35 with no ai. I opened resource monitor and it shows core 2 absolutely pegged. (I have process lasso forcing P3D off of cores 0 and 1). The other cores are pretty much idle. I tried using all 8 cores and no difference except the core that was pegged was always the first one that was able to run P3D. I have seen some people say this is normal while others have said an Affinity Mask helps solve this. It appears to me that not all my cores are working that hard. Also I have my PC overclocked to 5.2 Ghz but again resource monitor shows it working at 35% and around 4.75 Ghz, leading me to believe that its being throttled somehow. Any insights?
                        5.2 Ghz on a 9700 is a pretty steep climb ..... are you using an AVX offset?

                        I get along just fine with a 6 core processor (8700) and no affinity masks ....try running the sim without it.

                        While the 2080 is darn good card it is limited to just 8GB of VRAM ....are you getting near that mark? I can easily hit the 9GB mark with my 1080ti.

                        I posted my own performance chart of a couple recent flights (NGXu) on the "the genesis of performance thread". Yes, the info may look like a riddle but to the keen eye the two charts reveal what P3D performance demands (settings) I'm putting on my hardware and how my hardware is configured.

                        But, before you do anything double check your operating system power/performance settings and verify your on max performance.
                        Ken Carlin

                        Comment


                          #14
                          Originally posted by FunknNasty View Post

                          5.2 Ghz on a 9700 is a pretty steep climb ..... are you using an AVX offset?

                          I get along just fine with a 6 core processor (8700) and no affinity masks ....try running the sim without it.

                          While the 2080 is darn good card it is limited to just 8GB of VRAM ....are you getting near that mark? I can easily hit the 9GB mark with my 1080ti.

                          I posted my own performance chart of a couple recent flights (NGXu) on the "the genesis of performance thread". Yes, the info may look like a riddle but to the keen eye the two charts reveal what P3D performance demands (settings) I'm putting on my hardware and how my hardware is configured.

                          But, before you do anything double check your operating system power/performance settings and verify your on max performance.
                          I can’t say I’m familiar with an AVX offset. Could you explain? Are you saying maybe I should try running a lesser OC? I currently have the Corsair H115i cooler which does an excellent job at keeping my temps no higher than 90 degrees. I haven’t looked at my VRAM honestly. What’s a good a software to do that?
                          Thatcher Burns

                          |i7-9700K 5.2 Ghz| EVGA RTX 2080 SUPER BLACK GAMING| G.Skillz 32 Gb DDR4 3600| Corsair H115i|

                          Comment


                            #15
                            Originally posted by TBurns22 View Post

                            Danny, I did try without addons and got around 100-120 FPS on the defauly scenario with the F22. I also used the F22 on Aerosoft Zurich and cranked up the settings slowly. With full right sliders basically, I got 60 FPS pretty easily. When I add in PMDG products (I have all their stuff) or any other "high end" payware (TFDI, FSLabs) thats when my FPS plummets to between 25-30.
                            Hi Thatcher! About a year ago I built almost the same machine as you, for the same reasons and with the same expectations. At first I was very disappointed with the results.

                            The bad news; the above fps's look about right. One thing left out was your AI air, land and sea settings. These have a significant impact on fps and the cpu in particular. I run 24-30 at most complex sceneries, 30-34 in less urban airports and in NY and Chicago, 18-24. This is pretty consistent with all my complex AC with the difference being the NGXu which at s fps under 30 has more stutters when panning. The fact of the matter is that P3D can look amazing and run 60fps but not both at the same time. I would take claims otherwise on the same or lesser machines with a grain of salt. I find such claims are either exaggerated or there is a critical piece of info left out like all ai off or no shadows or no ORBX vector etc.

                            As far as running jittery and what you've said about cpu core usage, there may be some adjustments to be made there. I down clocked mine from 5.1 to 4.8 with as low a voltage that was able to run stabily.and got a significantly smoother and more stable experience. I really think lowering your OC will help. Also virtually eliminated CTDs. You may be running into throttling issues which is causing jitters, stutters. Running at 4.8 also allowed me to OC the graphics card a bit more allowing higher shadow and helping with dynamic lighting.

                            So for your settings; Not sure what you have for AI. Mine is 100% Airline, 15% cars, 100% ships, 40% boats. Adjusting these down yeilds an extra 4-15 fps but I hate a dead looking virtual world. I would dial down to 2xSSAA and at night with a lot of dynamic lights go 8xMSAA. Casting terrain shadows and building shadows will kill your fps especially at dawn and dusk. Also, my fps is locked at 30 which is 1/4 my refresh rate and seems to run smooth even down to 22-24 fps. The only thing is panning in the cockpit becomes more jittery as fps goes down and it is more pronounced in the NGXu than other add ons. Above 16,000 feet my fps will go 40-60 if it were unlocked. Another example, I can load a Caranado C172 and crank everything up and run 60fps.

                            Another HUGE help is the FFFT app, Simmarket.com, which will adjust your fiber framerate fraction from low to high as you climb and your GPU requires higher or lower rendering power.

                            So, ingnore grandiose claims of blazing fps on P3D. Your, or any powerful box, will crush barebones P3D but that overhead is gobbled up by add on goodies.

                            One final thought, my windows did a quality update last week that totally fubared my PC performance and resulted in more stutters and lower fps at the same settings. Still unresolved but in the meantime I've had to lower and turn off some shadow settings to keep the fps I have.

                            Bottom line is 24-30 with add ons is acceptable. Its just tough wrapping your mind around it when there is this insatiable quest for crazy high frames. The smoothness Ifeel is that that CPU isn't tuned right. 5.2 will yield an almost insignificant boost over 4.8. And a cooler CPU is a happier CPU.

                            Hope this helps
                            Last edited by TBone; 10Mar2020, 17:32.
                            Travis D. Perkins
                            i7 9700k 5.0ghz, RTX2080, 32GB 40000mhz, AOC Agon 35"

                            Comment


                              #16
                              Originally posted by TBurns22 View Post

                              I can’t say I’m familiar with an AVX offset. Could you explain? Are you saying maybe I should try running a lesser OC? I currently have the Corsair H115i cooler which does an excellent job at keeping my temps no higher than 90 degrees. I haven’t looked at my VRAM honestly. What’s a good a software to do that?
                              I use HWiNFO64 to monitor my VRAM and GPU performance, and I too will usually exceed 9GB VRAM and if I am using high resolution textures I can turn it into a slide show as I exceed 10GB in areas like Orbx Honolulu or Orlando Cityscape. It is really amazing how hard performance suffers when the video memory has to be paged.

                              My two cents: Frame rate doesn't count, it only matters when it's too low but I get fluid animations all day with mine locked at 24 fps.

                              My 8700K is OC to 4.8GHz and peaks around 70C with the H115 cooler... I'd be uneasy at 90C.
                              Dan Downs KCRP

                              Comment


                                #17
                                Thank you all so much for your help and insight. It truly is amazing that I can post a question or concern here and within 24 hours have this many replies! I think my next step is to try and downgrade my OC to reduce stutters and run the frames I have. 30 FPS is totally fine, the stutters are what kill me. I use Alpha India Group for ai which, for the most part, is either 100% on or off but it provides a much more realistic environment than UTLive which I tried
                                Thatcher Burns

                                |i7-9700K 5.2 Ghz| EVGA RTX 2080 SUPER BLACK GAMING| G.Skillz 32 Gb DDR4 3600| Corsair H115i|

                                Comment


                                  #18
                                  Originally posted by TBurns22 View Post
                                  Thank you all so much for your help and insight. It truly is amazing that I can post a question or concern here and within 24 hours have this many replies! I think my next step is to try and downgrade my OC to reduce stutters and run the frames I have. 30 FPS is totally fine, the stutters are what kill me. I use Alpha India Group for ai which, for the most part, is either 100% on or off but it provides a much more realistic environment than UTLive which I tried
                                  If you have FSUIPC, there is a setting to limit the number of AI generated. Mine is at 200. Also I have a hot key to kill all AI like if my fps drops on approach. Once on the ground I hit the hotkey again and they respawn.
                                  Travis D. Perkins
                                  i7 9700k 5.0ghz, RTX2080, 32GB 40000mhz, AOC Agon 35"

                                  Comment


                                    #19
                                    AVX is a cpu instruction set that programs such as p3d use to speed up certain calculations. The problem with AVX is it puts a lot of stress on the cpu. To combat the stress higher end motherboards will include a feature called AVX Offset. What the offset does is down clock the cpu when it senses the AVX instruction set.

                                    No I’m guessing you used an auto overclock tuning feature that came with your motherboard. There's a good chance the utility used a pretty hefty offset to get you to that 5.2 overclock. The offset feature will be in steps e.g., 1, 2 , 3 and beyond. Each step is equivalent to a 100 MHz down clock. You might be at a 4 or 5 offset.

                                    For now, I’d recommend you down clock your cpu to something like 5.0 -or lower, and see if you can get away from any offset. Set the memory to XMP
                                    Last edited by FunknNasty; 10Mar2020, 21:46.
                                    Ken Carlin

                                    Comment


                                      #20
                                      Originally posted by FunknNasty View Post
                                      AVX is a cpu instruction set that programs such as p3d use to speed up certain calculations. The problem with AVX is it puts a lot of stress on the cpu. To combat the stress higher end motherboards will include a feature called AVX Offset. What the offset does is down clock the cpu when it senses the AVX instruction set.

                                      No I’m guessing you used an auto overclock tuning feature that came with your motherboard. There's a good chance the utility used a pretty hefty offset to get you to that 5.2 overclock. The offset feature will be in steps e.g., 1, 2 , 3 and beyond. Each step is equivalent to a 100 MHz down clock. You might be at a 4 or 5 offset.

                                      For now, I’d recommend you down clock your cpu to something like 5.0 -or lower, and see if you can get away from any offset. Set the memory to XMP
                                      Ken, thanks for this. I did not use the automatic overclocking that came with my MOBO. I use an ASUS ROG STRIX Z390-E Gaming and I had problems with their overclock being exceptionally unstable so I went manual. I'll look in my bios to see if AVX offset is enabled.
                                      Thatcher Burns

                                      |i7-9700K 5.2 Ghz| EVGA RTX 2080 SUPER BLACK GAMING| G.Skillz 32 Gb DDR4 3600| Corsair H115i|

                                      Comment


                                        #21
                                        Just an update, I looked in my bios and my AVX offset was at SIX which was pulling my cores down to 4.6 Ghz which could explain a lot. I set the offset at zero, pulled my OC down to 4.8, and set my core voltage at 1.2. We will see if that helps any but the throttling on the core could definitely be the cause of my stutters and inconsistent frames.
                                        Thatcher Burns

                                        |i7-9700K 5.2 Ghz| EVGA RTX 2080 SUPER BLACK GAMING| G.Skillz 32 Gb DDR4 3600| Corsair H115i|

                                        Comment


                                          #22
                                          Originally posted by TBurns22 View Post
                                          Ken, thanks for this.
                                          Glad to help

                                          Originally posted by TBurns22 View Post
                                          We will see if that helps any but the throttling on the core could definitely be the cause of my stutters and inconsistent frames.
                                          Oh, you're not getting off that easy ....everyone who contributed to this thread is spot on right, so you do have some work ahead of you. But do get your hardware right 1st and everything else will fall into place after that.

                                          A couple tips I'd like to share:
                                          + Like Dan suggested ...Get HWINFO64 and don't leave home without it
                                          + I use NV Inspector ....for 4x SGSS in conjunction with the sim 8x MSAA ---- AND the overclock utility to bump up the video card TDP to 120%
                                          + Get AIDA64 -a stress test utility that will help get your hardware to the P3D sweet spot

                                          -Happy trails
                                          Last edited by FunknNasty; 11Mar2020, 03:27.
                                          Ken Carlin

                                          Comment


                                            #23
                                            Originally posted by FunknNasty View Post

                                            Glad to help



                                            Oh, you're not getting off that easy ....everyone who contributed to this thread is spot on right, so you do have some work ahead of you. But do get your hardware right 1st and everything else will fall into place after that.

                                            A couple tips I'd like to share:
                                            + Like Dan suggested ...Get HWINFO64 and don't leave home without it
                                            + I use NV Inspector ....for 4x SGSS in conjunction with the sim 8x MSAA ---- AND the overclock utility to bump up the video card TDP to 120%
                                            + Get AIDA64 -a stress test utility that will help get your hardware to the P3D sweet spot

                                            -Happy trails
                                            Ken, just out of curiosity do you have any other suggestions/settings with Inspector? I've seen mixed emotions about it and haven't noticed huge difference. I have a 60 hz 1080p monitor if that helps with reference.
                                            Thatcher Burns

                                            |i7-9700K 5.2 Ghz| EVGA RTX 2080 SUPER BLACK GAMING| G.Skillz 32 Gb DDR4 3600| Corsair H115i|

                                            Comment


                                              #24
                                              Originally posted by TBurns22 View Post

                                              Ken, just out of curiosity do you have any other suggestions/settings with Inspector? I've seen mixed emotions about it and haven't noticed huge difference. I have a 60 hz 1080p monitor if that helps with reference.
                                              I have nothing for you with regards to a 60 hz monitor ...and there again you have your work cut out for you. :-( -----I use a 27 inch 1440P hi performance IPS 165 hz monitor (run it at 150hz) ...makes it real easy to lock fps at pretty much any number I like ( I use 30)..

                                              Edit: What I used to do with the 60Hz monitor back in the day was to run unlimited fps below 5000 agl and 30 fps above that.
                                              Last edited by FunknNasty; 11Mar2020, 15:13.
                                              Ken Carlin

                                              Comment


                                                #25
                                                Maybe I missed but did you check?

                                                in windows, if the power options is set to "high performance"?
                                                under NVIDIA control panel under program settings for P3D power management mode is set to "prefer max performance"
                                                Is any CPU parked?
                                                On MOBO besides AVX to 0 see if all CPUs are set to the same overclock value (sync all cores)
                                                CPU FLEX disabled
                                                INTEL SPEED SHIFT disabled
                                                CPU enhanced halt c1e to disable
                                                c3, c6/c7, c8 and c10 to disable
                                                Under CPU Advanced power settings look for CPU VCORE LOADLINE CALIBRATION to the value of TURBO

                                                After all this, you can go in P3D and set it to default graphics and see how is initially working, after that we can have an idea.
                                                Last edited by Alex; 12Mar2020, 14:57. Reason: cpu

                                                Comment


                                                  #26
                                                  Arrr
                                                  I completely forgot about this tutorial:
                                                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJTCwSX9Ym8

                                                  Comment

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