Announcement

Collapse

PMDG Forum Rules

1) SIGN YOUR POSTS. Since 1997, we have asked users to sign their real name, first and last, to all posts in the PMDG forum. We do this in order to keep conversations personal and familiar. You took the time to be here, we want to get to know you. This is one of the few rigid rules that we enforce regularly. We do so because we feel that forums in which users must engage one another personally are generally warmer, more collegial and friendly. Posts that are unsigned will be quietly removed without comment by the moderators, so to make your life easy- we recommend enabling your forum signature so that you never need to remember. Do this by clicking the username pull-down at the top right, then selecting "User Settings." You will find the signature editor on the ACCOUNT tab, about half way down the page. Look for "Edit Post Signature." Be sure to click the "Show Signatures" box.

2) BE NICE. We are all simmers here and no matter our differences of opinion, we share a common love of aviation, computing and simulation. Treat everyone else in the forum with respect even when you disagree. If someone frustrates you, walk away from the conversation or ask for a moderator to get involved. Speaking of Moderators, they prefer not to be treated as "The Thought Police" but if any behavior infringes on the enjoyment of another user or is otherwise considered to be unacceptable in the moderator's judgment, it will be addressed in keeping with our view of ensuring that this forum remains a healthy environment for all simmers.

3) BE LAWFUL: Any behavior that infringes upon the law, such as discussion or solicitation of piracy, threats, intimidation or abuse will be handled unsympathetically by the moderators. Threats and intimidation may, at the moderator's discretion, be provided to law enforcement for handling.

4) BE FACTUAL: When you post, always be factual. Moderators will remove posts that are determined not to be factually accurate.

5) RESPECT COPYRIGHTS: Posting of copyrighted material such as flight manuals owned by Boeing or various airlines is not allowed in this forum. If you have questions related to copyrighted material, please contact a forum moderator for clarification.

6) RESPECT PMDG: We love to hear what you like about our products. We also like to hear what you think can be improved, or what isn't working. Please do tell us and we will always treat your feedback with value. Just be sure to treat the team respectfully, as they do put a significant amount of effort into building and maintaining these great simulation products for you.

7) RESPECT PMDG DEVELOPERS: All of the developers will spend some time here. Given the ratio of developers-to-users, it simply isn't possible for us to answer every post and private message individually. Please know that we do try to read everything, but developer workload is simply too high to manage personal contact with tens-of-thousands of users simultaneously. In most cases, members of the development team will stick to conversations in the forum and will not answer private messages.

8) RESPECT OTHER DEVELOPERS: PMDG has always advocated for a strong development community and we have many friends within this community. Every developer offers something unique that helps to make the simming community larger and more vibrant. We insist that you treat our friends respectfully.

9) RESPECT MODERATORS: Moderators have a tough job, and none of them enjoy having to stomp out negativity. If a moderator has to weigh in to keep a thread peaceful, please respect that effort and refrain from giving the moderator any grief.

10) If you require official support for any of our products please open a support ticket through the support portal, https://support.precisionmanuals.com

11) This forum is designed primarily as a vehicle for the PMDG development team to interact with our customers, and for customers to interact with one another in a manner that is positive, supportive and assists in the general advancement of understanding the simulation and helping to make this and future simulations better. Any other use of this forum is not permitted, including but not limited to discussion of pricing policies, business practices, forum moderating policies, advertising of non-PMDG products, promotion of events, services or products that are not approved in advance by PMDG or any other topic deemed unacceptable by any forum administrator

12) HAVE FUN: This is the whole point of it all.
See more
See less

My opinion about recent decision not to develop new products for Microsoft Flight Simulator X

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    My opinion about recent decision not to develop new products for Microsoft Flight Simulator X

    Dear PMDG,

    I have been with you since the introduction of the 747 for the old Microsoft flight simulator X 2004 (FS9). After almost three years enjoying this beautiful product, I finally decided that it was time to change platform. So, in 2013 I switched to Microsoft flight simulator X. Great improvements, I must admit. For the first time in my flight simulator years, I found an active, international community. There I learned about the 747 for Microsoft flight simulator XX. I can't express my enthusiasm about this product! Many people said it was over-priced, while it's not like that. It's quality and simulation accuracy can easily be compared to the real world and flight training simulators. Even the slightest thing is extremely detailed. A few weeks ago, I was amazed by the fade out of the internal light in the APU generator switches. The Queen of the skies never fails to amaze me!

    A few months back I realized that a new product was going to be released and I was thrilled. Every day I would look at the PMDG website to see if there was anything about it. And after almost a month of waiting it was finally released! I bought it immediately and discovered a great new feature. The EFB! I had seen this thing before in real life videos and wished it would come to the simulator one day.

    Recently I was informed that a new forum was put in place of the AVSIM one. I think it is better now because everything is in one place and a bit easier for the user to orientate himself. When I finished reading the article, I browsed to related topics and in one of them read that PMDG won't continue to develop new products for Microsoft Flight Simulator X. I was deeply disappointed... I have invested a lot of money in my computer having a lot of time finding solutions to many problems, spending a lot of money into add-ons and for one time in my life, everything in the Flight Simulator X is working as I wanted it to be. Shortly after, I read the article and you can easily understand my feelings because at the point when my flight simulator was running smoothly, I realized that I would have to change platform once again having to face all the problems of computer hardware, purchasing add-ons, re-installing software and more…

    I don't think that this is something that would be beneficial since a great percentage of people who fly in flight simulators use Microsoft Flight Simulator X. According to a survey conducted by Navigraph about 30% of flight simulator users use Microsoft Flight Simulator X, while Microsoft Flight Simulator X remains in the same position for two years (3rd). And according to the same survey, most time was spent on Microsoft Flight Simulator X which means that there is more time advertising your products in various networks like IVAO, VATSIM or even Microsoft Flight Simulator X’s multiplayer.

    Many refer to Microsoft Flight Simulator X as a "game" not a simulator. Although I respect their opinion, Prepar 3D is fairly the same thing and based on the same platform. Prepar 3D has by far better graphics but you can't compare the two just by this factor. On the other hand, the flight dynamics are the same and this is what a simulator should be focused on.

    Now I understand it's difficult to design test and generally produce an aircraft but as long as it can pay it back it's ok. The difference between Prepar 3D and Microsoft Flight Simulator X usage percentage is pretty small. I wouldn't have any problem changing to Prepar 3D but the problem is that it costs. I only get some money for my birthday and I was saving for the NG3 project but know I will have to put away a lot more money... I know the chances of convincing you are really small but it's a desperate email... To be honest it would be far greater for a product like this to be over-priced rather than not existing at all.

    Please consider all the factors mentioned above and please let me know about your decision by replying to me. Also, I would like to express my apologies if my English is not good enough. If you need anything feel free to ask me about it!

    Thank you for making such a wonderful forum and for your services all these years! Hope to see a new add-on for Microsoft Flight Simulator X by you!

    George Katsionis, 13, Athens Greece

    Article mentioned above: https://pcflight.net/pmdg-ends-devel...for-fsx-p3dv3/
    Survey mentioned above: https://download.navigraph.com/docs/...2018-final.pdf

    #2
    I think you missed the reason why most developers, PMDG is not alone, are moving away from FSX. It becomes very difficult to develop products for 64 bit platforms with expanding suite of tools not available on the legacy 32 bit systems. Very basic features fast becoming the normal such as dynamic lighting, dynamic reflections, material treatments, PBR and high resolution terrain textures are simply not possible in FSX. The developer that must remain competitive has very little choice.

    The good news, in case you missed it, is that the existing PMDG products for FSX (NGX, PMDG 77X, QOTSII, DC-6 and JS-41) will continue to be available for FSX and will be supported for the near future.
    Dan Downs KCRP

    Comment


    • George Kats
      George Kats commented
      Editing a comment
      Hi Dan!

      First of all I would like to thank you for replying! I love Flight Simulator X as you understand and it's difficult for me to have to change platform once I am now established and stable on this one.
      On the other hand, I respect the developers and by the way I must say that they do an awesome job having made PMDG the top (at least for me) flight simulator software developer! I understand that it is difficult to develop new software but I don't think that a flight simulator platform that represents the 30% of the worldwide flight simulator use, even though old, should not have products developed for it.

      Once again, that's my personal opinion and again thanks for replying!

      George Katsionis, 13, Athens Greece

    #3
    In addition to what Dan said, one thing you have to realize is FSX is a 32-bit program, so no matter what, you always have that VAS limitation. Depending on the type of flying you do and the add-ons you have, it might not make a difference to you if all you fly is short flights. In my experience with FSX, with the PMDG Boeing 747-400 and all the add-on airports I had, I could only fly for about 5.5 hours before FSX would run out of memory and quit working. This isn't an issue with P3D V4 since it's a 64-bit program. My longest run in P3D V4 was a whopping 27.5 hours from New York to Tokyo and back in the Boeing 747-400. This simply wasn't possible in FSX. Start adding more features into FSX, and you're eating into the already limited VAS usage, which means from a hypothetical standpoint, now instead of flying for 5.5 hours, I might now only be able to fly for 4 hours. That's why the RainMaker is only available in P3D V4 and not FSX. To develop for both FSX and P3D V4 actually takes more development time versus dropping the 32-bit programs when you have to worry about what features can be added or not.
    Captain Kevin

    Live streams of my flights here.
    Kevin Yang

    Comment


    • George Kats
      George Kats commented
      Editing a comment
      Hi Captain Kevin!

      First of all I would like to thank you for replying! I love Flight Simulator X as you understand and it's difficult for me to have to change platform once I am now established and stable on this one .
      I have never had any issues with FSX and it has never stopped working. I am worried that the P3D V4.4 would be more demanding if I add some nice add-ons. Also i am really excited for all these changes if I am going to change to P3D eventually. I have 8GB of RAM and I am fine, also it is running smoothly even though I have 3 monitors.

      Once again, that's my personal opinion and again thanks for replying!(sorry for copying from above)

      George Katsionis, 13, Athens Greece

    #4
    Originally posted by George Kats View Post
    The difference between Prepar 3D and Microsoft Flight Simulator X usage percentage is pretty small.
    While that is true to a degree from the simmer standpoint, you have to consider the developer standpoint. Prepar3d and FSX are vastly different in terms of development. It is not as simple as make the aircraft for P3D and remove some things so it works in FSX. From a developer’s standpoint, both products have to be built almost from the ground up.

    Also, your concerns about computer hardware aren’t as big as you think they are. P3D is more modern, and will run better on what you already have. If you got FSX running smooth, P3D will probably be fine on your current system. Same thing with your concerns about add-ons. Many add-ons have licenses that cover both FSX and P3D, so you don’t need to rebuy. The exception is aircraft, those you will usually have to rebuy. Also, re-installing software isn’t difficult, just time consuming. You’ll have P3D all set up in 3-4 days tops. I honestly would switch, FSX is dead. The longer you wait, the worse the switch will be when you finally do (because it is inevitable). Plus, you said you are 13, you genuinely qualify for the Academic License.

    And by the way, your English is very good.
    James Ward

    Comment


    • George Kats
      George Kats commented
      Editing a comment
      Hi James!

      Thanks for sharing your thoughts, being honest and for your compliment!

      I have a very good computer that can handle a triple monitor set-up and I am really worried about it's performance with P3D since I will download and buy add-ons! My brother who is very good with computer things, will buy me tomorrow a new CPU an Intel Core i5 replacing my old i3. I am also looking for a GPU and thinking of the GTX 1050Ti. And about the thing you mention it is 3-4 days work I will have to agree, since recently I re-installed my FSX which is almost the same procedure and I did it in just a few days. And yes I admit that FSX is dead :/ but it is alive to my eyes since I use IVAO which supports all three major flight simulator platforms.

      Once again, that's my personal opinion and again thanks for replying! Also if possible please reply with your opinion about specs for the computer.

      George Katsionis, 13, Athens, Greece

    #5
    A quick $60 and maybe another $300 min $500 MAX it takes to switch from FSX to P3D. I think its is time for fsx to be put to rest. It came did its job. And its retiring. Let it live its retirement
    Alex Kulak
    PMDG Studier and flyer
    Ramp Agent @PHX

    Comment


    • George Kats
      George Kats commented
      Editing a comment
      Hi Alex,

      First of all I would like to thank you for replying!

      Yeah that's what I am afraid of... 300-500$ is something that is a bit too expensive...

      George Katsionis, 13, Athens, Greece

    #6
    I have to say though George, that I have much respect for you and your post. The fact that you did not come into the forum “guns a’blazing” and demanding this, that and the other was so refreshing!

    Even though chances are probably zero that PMDG will continue addon development for FSX, your post was well written and very respectful. From one forum user to another...thanks.
    Randall Coultas

    Comment


    • George Kats
      George Kats commented
      Editing a comment
      Hi Randall!

      Thanks for such a kind reply! Have you any experience with such a change from FSX to P3D?

      Thanks!

      George Katsionis, 13, Athens, Greece

    #7
    George,

    Although I understand what you are saying this is the way we are going to move forward from now on. Trying to maintain compatibility and develop on 2-3 different platforms, when the 2 of them are outdated is simply a nightmare and time consuming. With every new feature added to the 64 bit application, which currently is P3Dv4, it means that additional code modification must be done in order to removed these features to the old 32 bit sims.
    Chris Makris (Olympic260)
    PMDG Technical Support
    http://www.pmdg.com

    Comment


    • George Kats
      George Kats commented
      Editing a comment
      Hello Dear Mr. Chris!

      I fully understand you, the developers, as I hope you understand me... Eventually, I will end up buying P3D sooner or later... Also may I ask if you are Greek?

      Thanks for replying to my post!

      George Katsionis, 13, Athens, Greece

    #8
    George,

    A very erudite and well-reasoned post. However, from a business standpoint I understand why PMDG (and a number of other developers) have made the decision to stop developing products for FSX, just as in the past they stopped developing products for FS9, FS2002, FS2000, FS98 etc.

    As others have mentioned, from a development standpoint the two sims are very different and diverging all the time. 64-bit offers a great number of possibilities, but it's not just about being able to throw bigger textures and more visual goodies in to products without the risk of OOMs; it's also about the fact that the underlying SDK is under constant development, allowing more and more features to be included that simply aren't there in FSX and many more besides.

    One of the reasons we have such extraordinary addons (from all sorts of developers) is because FSX remained basically unchanged for virtually a decade, which provided a great deal of stability for developers to explore and this is certainly provided a springboard for P3D development. But if we take PMDG as an example, the problem now is this:

    There are currently four main product lines - the 737, 747, 777 and DC-6.

    Up until P3D became a thing, that meant four base products to maintain (I know the DC-6 wasn't a thing then but for the sake of simplicity) -- fundamentally one version of each product. The underlying system wasn't going to change because FSX development had stopped, so it was just tweaking/updating/improving/fixing those three products.

    Throw P3D v3 in to the mix and now you have effectively eight products to maintain, because things done for P3D may not be compatible with FSX and vice versa.

    Add P3D v4 and now you have twelve products to maintain, develop, update, test and support. Add X-Plane in to the mix and that become thirteen. When P3D v5 comes out, it will be seventeen. And that's before you even start to think about developing new products! The number of hours in the day remains the same, however, so that means you either need to find more developers, which adds more cost (not to mention finding good developers with the right interest and skillset is not easy), or you have to cut back on the amount of time spent on any particular product. And, of course, nobody wants to pay for updated versions of their products...

    Having a wide choice of sims is great in many ways, but it is a real challenge for developers! Any successful business at the end of the day has to make a decision about when to draw a line and cut one's losses. And the same must be true for individuals as well.

    Yes, many people have spent a lot of money on addons for FSX which may or may not be compatible with P3Dv4. But this is a fantastic example of what is known as 'sunk cost bias'. We are all inherently risk- and loss-averse -- we're reluctant to throw away something that is no longer a viable proposition because of the amount of money we have already spent on it. The longer we hang on to these things and the more money we continue to sink in to them, the worse it gets.

    Upgrading to P3Dv4 will of course cost money, but ask yourself which is the better use of that cash -- sinking ever more in to a platform which is going to see less and less development and is certainly never going to have any of its inherent flaws fixed, or in to an up-to-date platform where you will be able to invest in newer, more functional and more innovative products? There's no need to make an instant break and look to immediately replace like for like every aircraft, scenery and add-on you have installed in FSX in P3D; all you need to do is make a conscious decision to stop investing any further in FSX, buy P3D itself, transfer over any products you own for FSX which have free P3D v4 upgrades and, when you're ready, perhaps purchase one particular aircraft or scenery you want. You can keep using FSX for the stuff you don't have in P3D, but gradually over time you will start to find that you have more and more use for the new sim and less and less for the old one. You wouldn't have bought everything for FSX all in one go, so why the rush to do so for an upgraded sim?

    At the end of the day, it is of course something for the individual to decide but in making your choices remember: the money spent on FSX is sunk already. The returns are going to continue diminishing; at some point you either have to decide that you're happy with how it is and accept there will be few or no new products across the board for FSX, or make a decision to cut your losses and move on...
    Simon Kelsey

    Comment


    • George Kats
      George Kats commented
      Editing a comment
      Hi Simon,

      I get your point and I will eventually move on to P3D sooner rather than later...

      Thanks for replying!

      George Katsionis, 13, Athens, Greece

    #9
    George, you are a smart and well-educated young person.
    I wish you to fulfill your dreams. You seem to have all the potential for that.

    I understand what $300 or $500 means for a kid (even smart!) and I do understand your disappointment regarding FSX.
    As said by many, if you can afford it, take the plunge and go for P3D, the future is there.
    I for one would be very happy to offer you (*) the Queen of the Skies II for your upcoming birthday.
    And when you'll be a real Captain in a real Boeing you'll offer me a beer as your passenger! :-)

    (*) Dear PMDG staff, how can I purchase a product for someone?
    Best regards,
    David Roch

    Comment


    • George Kats
      George Kats commented
      Editing a comment
      Dear Mr. David Roch,

      First of all, I would like to thank you for replying, for the compliments and for your extremely generous offer! I am really happy to see such a beautiful comment. I want to express my admiration from the bottom of my heart, for you for being able to make such an offer!

      Although I really appreciate it I can't accept such a thing. I certainly will invite you for a flight when I become a real life Boeing (Ain't Boeing ain't going) pilot!

      Thanks again from the bottom of my heart!

      George Katsionis, 13, Athens, Greece

    #10
    Originally posted by David Roch View Post
    George, you are a smart and well-educated young person.
    I wish you to fulfill your dreams. You seem to have all the potential for that.

    I understand what $300 or $500 means for a kid (even smart!) and I do understand your disappointment regarding FSX.
    As said by many, if you can afford it, take the plunge and go for P3D, the future is there.
    I for one would be very happy to offer you (*) the Queen of the Skies II for your upcoming birthday.
    And when you'll be a real Captain in a real Boeing you'll offer me a beer as your passenger! :-)

    (*) Dear PMDG staff, how can I purchase a product for someone?
    David, this is not possible in the current system. Since we are n the process of changing to a new cart will need to check there when it's active.
    Chris Makris (Olympic260)
    PMDG Technical Support
    http://www.pmdg.com

    Comment


      #11
      Well received Chris.
      My proposal to George remains valid until then.
      Best regards,
      David Roch

      Comment


        #12
        Originally posted by skelsey View Post
        There are currently four main product lines - the 737, 747, 777 and DC-6.
        Aren't you missing one? Otherwise I agree with your post, developing for multiple diverging platforms simultaneously gets messy and expensive. Especially when the platform in question is a decade old.
        Last edited by ckyliu; 05Mar2019, 16:16.
        Chris Liu, proud supporter of Intercity Airways, visit www.ViaIntercity.com

        Comment


          #13
          I'm with PMDG (and others software developers) that 64 bits platforms are the future (and already the present) for flight simulation, but I have a doubt: What happens if LM is obliged to fulfill its EULA ?
          I'm not a pilot nor student and I use FS only for entertainment ?










          Comment


          • George Kats
            George Kats commented
            Editing a comment
            Hi Jose, thanks for replying!

            George Katsionis, 13, Athens, Greece

          #14
          Well written and clear post by George, impressive for a young man. I love my 737NGX. While I understand PMDG's reasoning, I was somewhat 'chilled' by their statement that FSX "will be supported for the near future". Near future? What does that mean, please? Of course platforms and add-ons come and go, but you don't expect to buy something that has a short 'shelf life' without some warning. It's always difficult improving your hard and software incrementally, knowing when it's time to stop, but I've spent a fair bit this last few months adding the 737NGX, Active Sky, FS2Crew (and upgrading my PC and graphics card within limited means) for FSX-SE. I've bought other software too, like Majestic's Dash Q400 Pro, for FSX-SEIt's a real downer to realise that basically, and in "the near future" I may have wasted a lot of money.

          Andrew

          P.S. If someone could tell me how to do it, I'll make a proper signature 'block'.
          Andrew (ThreeBears)

          Comment


          • George Kats
            George Kats commented
            Editing a comment
            Hi Andrew!

            Thanks for replying! Thanks for understanding. I totally agree with you at the last part since I feel the same and I would really appreciate it if this renouncement had been made earlier... Because I bought the 747 and then in less than 6 months after my purchase I am informed that nothing will be developed again for FSX. So, I think just the same that I wasted my money since I will have to update and buy the product twice without a single update...

            George Katsionis, 13, Athens, Greece

          #15
          The impending cessation of updates for FSX addons in general has been clear since P3Dv4 was released 9 months ago. And the wane of FSX and supplantation P3D and XP11 has been clear for years. Customers cannot grumble it's unexpected a 10 year old platform with clear successors will soon stop receiving new addons and addon updates.

          ThreeBears Your hardware upgrades will be applicable to other software, not just FSX. Furthermore the FSX addons you own will continue working in FSX, they're not just gonna stop suddenly, even when they are withdrawn from sale. So what do you mean by "limited shelf life"? Of course, should you encounter difficulties some developers may no longer offer support for discontinued products, but with respect, I don't think this can be a surprise to anyone who's buying the level of products you mentioned.

          I was factoring the costs of porting addons to P3D into my purchase decisions probably 3+ years ago. Unfortunately all the products you mentioned except Majestic's Q400 require a complete repurchase for P3D, there is no discounted "upgrade path" (this is why I haven't bought anything from those developers in 3+ years), but again, the costs of this have been clear for a long time. By purchasing those recently, you have indicated you accept those policies and associated costs to you.
          Last edited by ckyliu; 05Mar2019, 16:41.
          Chris Liu, proud supporter of Intercity Airways, visit www.ViaIntercity.com

          Comment


          • George Kats
            George Kats commented
            Editing a comment
            Hi sir,

            Thanks for replying!

            I understand what you say. I am thinking that maybe updating to P3D will have me end up in the position I am now. And then I would have to update again... So I want to make sure that this is going to be a stable platform.

            George Katsionis, 13, Athens, Greece

          #16
          Unfortunately in life you "can't always get what you want". A good life lesson.
          David Porrett
          Sea Pilot
          CPL, ME, CFI, IFR
          Mooney M20M (G500/GTN)

          Comment


          • George Kats
            George Kats commented
            Editing a comment
            Hi David, thanks for replying!

            George Katsionis, 13, Athens, Greece

          #17
          Originally posted by ThreeBears View Post
          Well written and clear post by George, impressive for a young man. I love my 737NGX. While I understand PMDG's reasoning, I was somewhat 'chilled' by their statement that FSX "will be supported for the near future". Near future? What does that mean, please? Of course platforms and add-ons come and go, but you don't expect to buy something that has a short 'shelf life' without some warning. It's always difficult improving your hard and software incrementally, knowing when it's time to stop, but I've spent a fair bit this last few months adding the 737NGX, Active Sky, FS2Crew (and upgrading my PC and graphics card within limited means) for FSX-SE. I've bought other software too, like Majestic's Dash Q400 Pro, for FSX-SEIt's a real downer to realise that basically, and in "the near future" I may have wasted a lot of money.

          Andrew

          P.S. If someone could tell me how to do it, I'll make a proper signature 'block'.
          Given how mature of a product the NGX is, being "unsupported " really should not matter to you practically speaking. FSX is done changing so you should be able to use NGX with it indefinitely. The MD-11 has been unsupported for years now and as far as I'm aware guys are still flying it (?).
          Matt Smith
          Prepar3D NGX/747

          Comment


            #18
            Originally posted by Jose Serro View Post
            I'm with PMDG (and others software developers) that 64 bits platforms are the future (and already the present) for flight simulation, but I have a doubt: What happens if LM is obliged to fulfill its EULA ?
            I'm not a pilot nor student and I use FS only for entertainment ?
            Jose,

            the point is not to be a real world pilot. It is fully sufficient to say "I use P3D to train my pilot skills." There is no need to be licensed, in pilot training or anything else. The only actual requirement is not to purchase the academic license as long as your not a student in whatever way. Although nobody can check that at all. However as soon as you say in public that you use it for entertainment only you don't fulfill the eula. To be a great pretender has been everything in business for ages
            Marc Ehnle

            Comment


              #19
              Originally posted by Swaluver88 View Post
              A quick $60 and maybe another $300 min $500 MAX it takes to switch from FSX to P3D. I think its is time for fsx to be put to rest. It came did its job. And its retiring. Let it live its retirement
              Alex,

              I switched from FSX-SE to P3Dv4 without spending a penny on upgrades. P3Dv4 is more rich in features but is also more efficient. In my experience if your system can run FSX-SE then P3Dv4 will run at least as well. A system upgrade is not essential, and saying it is tends to increase the reluctance of people like George Kats to make the jump.

              All I can say is go for it George, but if you are happy with FSX then wait till the NG3 is imminent. By then we might be on P3Dv5, so it would save you an intermediate purchase. You'll also have more time to save up.
              Last edited by Kevin Hall; 05Mar2019, 20:20.

              Comment


                #20
                Originally posted by Kevin Hall View Post
                Alex,

                I switched from FSX-SE to P3Dv4 without spending a penny on upgrades. P3Dv4 is more rich in features but is also more efficient. In my experience if your system can run FSX-SE then P3Dv4 will run at least as well. A system upgrade is not essential, and saying it is tends to increase the reluctance of people like George Kats to make the jump.

                All I can say is go for it George, but if you are happy with FSX then wait till the NG3 is imminent. By then we might be on P3Dv5, so it would save you an intermediate purchase. You'll also have more time to save up.
                Doubt we will be on P3D V5 by then but lockheed whips out updates rediculously fast that anticipated
                Alex Kulak
                PMDG Studier and flyer
                Ramp Agent @PHX

                Comment


                • Senchay
                  Senchay commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Its a 6 month update cycle

                #21
                Good post George, but dropping support for FSX is progress.

                Last edited by MatthewS; 05Mar2019, 20:37.
                MatthewS

                Comment


                  #22
                  MatthewS,

                  that is not a very appropriate comment to make on George's original message. He is 13 and probably has to save for months to be able to switch from FSX to P3d. There is not even a trace of him being a 'vocal minority with a selfish attitude'. His intervention was more a very polite, well reasoned and desperate plea of a young kid who sees his dreams float away.
                  PMDG and other developers have clearly stated where they are heading and your menacing not to buy products from a developer choosing to support FSX almost certainly is only 'hot air' to them.
                  I have used P3d Professional from V2 to today's version and have no particular interest in FSX.
                  Only standing up for a youngster with a dream.
                  Charles J Stutz

                  Comment


                    #23
                    Originally posted by CJSCHCargo View Post
                    MatthewS,
                    that is not a very appropriate comment to make on George's original message. He is 13 and probably has to save for months to be able to switch from FSX to P3d. There is not even a trace of him being a 'vocal minority with a selfish attitude'. His intervention was more a very polite, well reasoned and desperate plea of a young kid who sees his dreams float away.
                    PMDG and other developers have clearly stated where they are heading and your menacing not to buy products from a developer choosing to support FSX almost certainly is only 'hot air' to them.
                    I have used P3d Professional from V2 to today's version and have no particular interest in FSX.
                    Only standing up for a youngster with a dream.
                    When I realized he was 13 then I edited my post at 6.37, 20mins before you posted your reply at 6.57.

                    George, if you read my original reply in the 5 mins before I got the chance to edit it I'm really sorry, but I didn't realize you were only 13 until I re-read your post. My "vocal minority" comment was directed at "old guys" not school kids like yourself.
                    Last edited by MatthewS; 05Mar2019, 22:50.
                    MatthewS

                    Comment


                    • CJSCHCargo
                      CJSCHCargo commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Matthew, sorry for my comment. For some reason that eludes me I did not see your edited post but only your original one. I was probably on the Forum earlier than the time you edited the post and the forum did not auto refresh. Will manually refresh next time before posting. Good learning.

                    • George Kats
                      George Kats commented
                      Editing a comment
                      No problem Mathew mistakes can happen!

                      George Katsionis, 13, Athens, Greece

                    #24
                    George, looks like you responded to my post as a comment, which makes it a little difficult to respond directly to your post. As far as FSX crashing, like I said, it just depends on the add-ons you have and the length of the flights you fly. I could easily fly an hour or two and not have an issue in FSX. If I tried to fly for six hours, it wasn't doable because of FSX being a 32-bit program. As the program continues to be used, the VAS usage is going to increase until it can't, or unless you shut the program down before it gets to that point. Here, let me show you.

                    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/160437296

                    The dinging you hear is the computer warning me that FSX is about to run out of memory, and once you hear the master warning horn go off, that's when FSX completely stopped working. Trust me, I know it's difficult to switch to a different simulator, I was actually in that position myself. I finally made the switch to P3D V4 because I finally got fed up with the issues I was having with FSX. It certainly wasn't cheap for me since I needed to buy an entirely new computer to be able to run it, although to be fair, I was running FSX on a laptop. For reference, I have a 3-monitor setup, so running P3D V4 definitely won't be an issue on that. For reference, this is my present setup.

                    Captain Kevin

                    Live streams of my flights here.
                    Kevin Yang

                    Comment


                    • CJSCHCargo
                      CJSCHCargo commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Hi Kevin, very nice setup you have. Complete with all the necessary ameneties for your long haul flights incl. crew rest bunk, coffee cup and reminders of the important people in your life. Great respect for your enthusiasm and stamina carrying over from your rw job to your hobby. Hope you continue to enjoy it for many more years. All the best.

                    • George Kats
                      George Kats commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Thanks for the reply Mr. Kevin!

                      Your set-up looks amazing! I would really appreciate it if you could somehow send me your system specifications

                      George Katsionis, 13, Athens, Greece

                    #25
                    Very nice setup Captain Kevin! The most important piece of hardware I see is the coffee cup! Seriously, nice rig though.
                    Randall Coultas

                    Comment


                      #26
                      George,

                      Thanks for the kind words about our products. Thanks for signing up for the new forum, and most of all- thanks for taking the time to offer your thoughts on our announced end to development for the FSX platform.

                      When I first started creating addons for the sim community, we were on a time-tested two year rotation between versions of products. Every other year a new update to Microsoft Flight Simulator would appear in mid/late summer, and we would have to scramble to figure out which products were compatible, which were going to be updated to be made compatible, and which were dead forever if we wished to move forward. Back then the pace of change in the hardware capability was so rapid that it was inconceivable you would not upgrade your simulator in order to get the new features because the differences were never small.

                      As freeware developers increasingly pivoted into commercial development, that often meant waiting for your favorite developer to push an update to your favorite products (usually with a small upgrade price) or simply buying new stuff released on the new platform outright.

                      Back then, pricing was generally in the $10-15 range and there really weren't many products to choose from- so the pain wasn't terrible. As a community we just viewed it as a fair trade for a constantly evolving set of products to work with.

                      Fast forward 25 years and things are a bit different now. FSX was released in 2006. In terms of software age, it is beyond geriatric- and to some degree I am astounded that it will still run on modern hardware. As a developer, my fear has been for some time that a windows update/hardware change/driver update would appear that would instantly break FSX, thus plunging a dagger into the heart of the entire sim development community that PMDG calls home. As such, I am very happy to see the continued growth and support of platforms like XPlane and P3D.

                      We have held on to FSX development longer than most developers, in part because we have a massive amount of market data that shows us the trend lines for various platform segments, and until recently FSX was still going strong for many users. The past 12 months have caused a swift change in the market size of FSX users and the cold reality is that the market is losing about 50% of it's users annually and has been doing so for the past two years. From a developer perspective, this means that we have to very careful in consideration of forward looking obligations, because any product that is FSX compatible that we release TODAY must be supported by us for somewhere in the 3-5 year range. Given that we do not think FSX will be operable throughout that entire timeframe- it subjects us to some liability that we really don't want.

                      Then, on the development side- the supported platforms such as XPlane and P3D are beginning to diverge increasingly rapidly from commonality with FSX. The use of more advanced and intensive processes such as 64bit processing and advanced GPU driven animations capabilities means that in order to maintain support backward to an older platform, we essentially have to maintain different development code source tracks- and this has the effect of significantly complicating our ability to support multiple platforms while also slowing down development as we find ways to take advantage of the new techniques in one platform while coding in such a way as to not break things in the old platform.

                      It was this need that slowed the release of the 747-8, probably adding 3-5 months of development time to the overall project.

                      So for us it entirely an efficiency and return-on-investment decisions. As of about this time last year, it was no longer profitable for us to develop new products that are compatible with FSX. We decided in mid summer to drop all x32 development on the NG3- and this has allowed that product to speed up considerably while also taking full advantage of the flexibility and power that x64 architecture gives us developmentally.

                      With changes like this, we KNOW that some customers will get caught in the maw of progress. We are very close to sounding the end-of-life whistle on support for Prepar3D v3- and while only a few customers are using that platform- thedecision will weigh heavily on them and we are all-too-well aware of this.

                      But at the end of the day we must focus on what is best for the majority of customer- and that will mean keeping our eye on the newer and in-development platforms.

                      I hope this information is interesting to you, even if it doesn't solve the problems you described for yourself. In the mean time- thanks again for a well positioned discussion, George.





                      Robert S. Randazzo
                      PMDG Simulations
                      http://www.pmdg.com


                      Comment


                        #27
                        Originally posted by viperxbr
                        I'm curious if George is still using Windows XP running FSX? If not, why? That was the OS of that time. Did you send Microsoft an email/post as to why they were dropping support for XP?

                        How about the hardware you're using? Still running a Core 2 Duo with 1-2GB of RAM? If not, why?

                        It's mind boggling seeing people complain about dropping absolute "ancient" technology and why we are not still living in the past.

                        Time to start investing into 21st century technology people! Like it or not the world will move on with or without you.
                        ​​​​I agree that dropping FSX is absolutely the right call, but your time and electrons might be better spent offering this 13-year old kid some practical advice on how to get there from here, as others in the thread have done. He's obviously not clinging to FSX due to being a Luddite.

                        ​​​​​​
                        ​​​

                        Matt Smith
                        Prepar3D NGX/747

                        Comment


                          #28
                          Hello George or should i say Mr.Katsionis.🤔
                          Danny Z. Cebis

                          Comment


                          • George Kats
                            George Kats commented
                            Editing a comment
                            Hi Danny,

                            Thanks for replying! You can call me however you like! Also how do you add this image on the bottom of your message?

                            George Katsionis, 13, Athens, Greece

                          #29
                          Originally posted by RCflyer View Post
                          Very nice setup Captain Kevin! The most important piece of hardware I see is the coffee cup! Seriously, nice rig though.
                          I have four of them. Three of them are from streamers that I watch when I have the time. The fourth would be my plane.
                          Captain Kevin

                          Live streams of my flights here.
                          Kevin Yang

                          Comment


                            #30
                            Originally posted by Ephedrin View Post

                            Jose,

                            the point is not to be a real world pilot. It is fully sufficient to say "I use P3D to train my pilot skills." There is no need to be licensed, in pilot training or anything else.
                            Hi Marc,

                            Thank you for clarifying this doubt.
                            If it is not illegal to use P3D as a pilot study platform without having a pilot's license, then I start thinking seriously about moving from FSX to P3D.
                            It's a lot of money investment.
                            With my 62 years old I am no longer a student teenager although as a software developer I need to study every day to keep me updated with the news in my professional life.

                            Originally posted by Ephedrin View Post

                            To be a great pretender has been everything in business for ages
                            you are absolutely right and i must say that in politics this is also true.
                            I'm thinking of starting a pilot course and with that being able to use the professional version of P3D

                            Thank you for your post


                            George, I understand your position, but the future are the 64 bits platforms and they (software's developers) have to move in that direction.
                            I'm still with FSX and for me is more than enough, but the quality of the add-ons is getting better and better and one day you will want them.
                            Start slowly, buying a new hard disk/ssd and use the same PC (that´s what I´m doing with FSX and the Steam Edition) and with your age you can buy de academic version of P3D and when the 64 bits became fantastic (P3D 5 or 6 or ...) you are ready, don't need to start from zero.

                            Comment


                            • George Kats
                              George Kats commented
                              Editing a comment
                              Hi Jose!

                              Thanks for replying and for giving me this advice! I will do my best to get the thing working!

                              George Katsionis, 13, Athens, Greece
                          Working...
                          X