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[22DEC19] The genesis of a performance discussion...

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    #31
    Im getting better Frames! Robert

    by the way Merry Christmas.
    Ro Faulk

    Monitor ROG PG27U 4K 144HZ
    i9,9900K 5.0GHZ, 64GB RAM, SSD 2TB M.2 OS drive, Dual EVGA 2080Ti NVLinked GPU's, MSI, GODlike Z390 MB.

    Comment


      #32
      would love to know how to configure to get the best performance out of my setup though. Its a good machine!
      Ro Faulk

      Monitor ROG PG27U 4K 144HZ
      i9,9900K 5.0GHZ, 64GB RAM, SSD 2TB M.2 OS drive, Dual EVGA 2080Ti NVLinked GPU's, MSI, GODlike Z390 MB.

      Comment


        #33
        Very interesting discussion, Robert. Here is my question. I just bought a new, very powerful computer. I am thinking of dumping FSX, and moving to P3D4.5. However, it will be expensive, and I want to make sure that before I do it, PMDG will continue to support P3D, and not end support to move to MS 2020. Can you shed some light on this, Robert?
        Greg Goodavish
        PMDG 737,777, and 747 user

        Comment


          #34
          Thanks for the explanation - it alleviates a lot of frustration as I've spent A LOT of money on this hobby and I'm sure other's have too and when you're trying to get that decent landing and your sim is stuttering etc it's very annoying.

          Patiently waiting for FS2020 and for simming to come into the 21st century.
          Peter Walsh.

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by Greg Goodavish View Post
            Very interesting discussion, Robert. Here is my question. I just bought a new, very powerful computer. I am thinking of dumping FSX, and moving to P3D4.5. However, it will be expensive, and I want to make sure that before I do it, PMDG will continue to support P3D, and not end support to move to MS 2020. Can you shed some light on this, Robert?
            We're so close to FS2020 I'd just wait tbh. I changed over to P3D last year not knowing what was ahead and I've burned a bit of cash.
            Peter Walsh.

            Comment


              #36
              I've watched a few videos on how graphics APIs work, and it essentially said something like this:

              CPU: Customer
              API: Waiter
              GPU: Cook
              Display: Putting cooked food on the plate and serving the customer.

              Another analogy I've heard was the CPU is the boss, the GPU is the employee. An employee usually gets their orders from the boss, and thus can't do anything without being ordered by the boss first.

              Is this a bad analogy?
              Last edited by magnetite; 04Jan2020, 03:05.
              Jeff Thomson

              Comment


                #37
                Hello All

                Here is my secret inside the metal box parts rig: PS RM850x; CorSair water cooling activated in BIOS; GeForce GTX1080 Ti ; Intel i7-7700k CPU @4,20 GHZ; 63.93 GB RAM, 1T 960M.2Pro, 1T WD M.2 to handle ORBX run via symbolic link which make my m.2 pro with plenty of room for my PMDG addons display Samsung LC32F391FWNXZA with Game Mode On/OFF display resolution optimal 1920x1080 60hz motherboard is Asus maximus hero IX Republic of Gamers OC to 14 % and this machine handles all this Draw Calls and utilises GPU application programing Interface with all the components on this computer just fine. I guess is outdated now and no perfect but I enjoy my flight experience 100% so far so good. thank you Robert for this information

                Regards,

                Rolando Olmo
                Rolando Olmo

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                  #38
                  Originally posted by rsrandazzo View Post
                  Scene I7 6700K // GTX980 I9 9900K // GTX2080Ti Performance Delta
                  747-8 mid-day 34 62 82%
                  747-8 dusk 21 52 147%
                  747-8 night 30 58 93%
                  NGXu mid-day 30 53 76%
                  NGXu dusk 15 47 213%
                  NGXu night 25 50 100%
                  Hi Robert, it's interesting that with the best gaming CPU and top of the line GPU available to mankind, your system is only able to squeeze out 53 frames out of the NGXu. Abandon all hope ye who enter here!

                  (Just kidding of course... very nicely written. Thanks for sharing.)
                  Serge Saakov - KPVD
                  my YouTube page

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by serge_s View Post

                    Hi Robert, it's interesting that with the best gaming CPU and top of the line GPU available to mankind, your system is only able to squeeze out 53 frames out of the NGXu. Abandon all hope ye who enter here!

                    (Just kidding of course... very nicely written. Thanks for sharing.)
                    Those FPS numbers are only important to illustrate the performance delta between the 6700K and the 9900k. I think most people cap their FPS at something like 30 FPS and use the extra FPS headroom for power settings that matter to the individual, e.g. like more clouds, scenery etc. So I look at the graph and think to myself at 30 fps I can run 76% more graphics with the 9900K than the 6700K with NGXu at mid day ...and even 213% at dusk!
                    Ken Carlin

                    Comment


                      #40
                      rsrandazzo I read the post and interested in seeing your performance increase. Do you think the stark numbers of 200% more down to the graphics card (retailing at around $1500usd) or from the processor?

                      Alex Ridge - LGW/EGKK LHR/EGLL

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by FunknNasty View Post

                        Those FPS numbers are only important to illustrate the performance delta between the 6700K and the 9900k. I think most people cap their FPS at something like 30 FPS and use the extra FPS headroom for power settings that matter to the individual, e.g. like more clouds, scenery etc. So I look at the graph and think to myself at 30 fps I can run 76% more graphics with the 9900K than the 6700K with NGXu at mid day ...and even 213% at dusk!
                        Ken, few things to consider...

                        A nickel is worth 400% more than a penny, but at the end of the day, it's still just a nickel. (EDIT: Don't get too hung up on the numbers.)

                        I don't know if the extra frames you save will give you additional graphics overhead; I have not seen any data or tests supporting this theory. It's an interesting interpretation however. But the real reason why the rate limiter exists in the first place is to set the refresh rate to match that of older monitors. If you have one of those 30 Hz monitors, then I suppose you may benefit from limiting your frames to 30. I know those monitors are about 10-15 years old now but many are still around and are being actively used. You would be hard-pressed to find one for sale today. Typical monitors you can buy today start with 60 Hz and go up from there, and forcing your frame rate to 30 FPS defeats the purpose and strips all benefits of having new hardware. I wouldn't recommend doing that. In addition, since the days of old software-imposed frame rate limiters, there have been some phenomenal engineering advancements in the hardware and software design running the modern CPUs, GPUs, and monitors, like the adaptive sync technologies for example (V-sync, Freesync for AMD hardware, and G-sync for Nvidia) with some of the monitors actually working in unison with the hardware to eliminate aberrations like screen tearing, stuttering, ghosting, and a wide malaise of other undesired side effects. I would recommend to embrace the new technology, and put those old application-imposed outdated solutions to rest.

                        The changes that Robert described were not only CPUs. If you look at his data table, you will note that he also changed from GTX980 to an GTX2080Ti (which I think he really meant RTX2080Ti). The latter GPU is the best there is for gaming, and there is nothing better available on the market today to produce the smoothest flying experience. In addition, he also has the undefeated king of FPS I9-9900K CPU. So, all in all, he has the best system available to man-kind. And with that, he is only able to eek out 53 frames at best, which is really very pathetic when compared to other gaming software these days. (PMDG, you know I am only saying this in the most affectionate way possible - but you know it's true.)

                        For what it's worth, I get about 50 frames out of my system on average. (AMD Ryzen 7-3700X CPU which is only about 25% utilized at full load, and an Nvidia RTX 2070 Super GPU, which is about 75% utilized at full load)

                        Thanks - Serge
                        Last edited by serge_s; 28Jan2020, 22:50.
                        Serge Saakov - KPVD
                        my YouTube page

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Serge is correct,

                          Even with my system, I'm not getting more frames and I have dual EVGA FTW3 2080Ti's and a 9900K. Even with both GPUs running its nothing spectacular I'm afraid. note running @ 4K though! and even at 1440p its the same!


                          I'm hoping FS2020 will take full advantage of these hardware setups. I dropped xplane-11 because they do not support multiple GPUs. and with scenery add-ons, you can forget good frame rates.

                          P3d is an old dog that needs to go away and rest seriously.
                          Last edited by oblongmushroom; 28Jan2020, 19:36.
                          Ro Faulk

                          Monitor ROG PG27U 4K 144HZ
                          i9,9900K 5.0GHZ, 64GB RAM, SSD 2TB M.2 OS drive, Dual EVGA 2080Ti NVLinked GPU's, MSI, GODlike Z390 MB.

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Hey, I Serge needs your help on flight planning bro!
                            chat soon
                            Ro Faulk

                            Monitor ROG PG27U 4K 144HZ
                            i9,9900K 5.0GHZ, 64GB RAM, SSD 2TB M.2 OS drive, Dual EVGA 2080Ti NVLinked GPU's, MSI, GODlike Z390 MB.

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Correction to what I said earlier...

                              Move over Robert, Ro has you beat hands down; he has the best water-cooled dual 2080Ti super supreme system available to man-kind.
                              Serge Saakov - KPVD
                              my YouTube page

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Originally posted by oblongmushroom View Post
                                P3d is an old dog that needs to go away and rest seriously.
                                Says who? Its a good sim with purpose. FS9 is old and needs to be put down... but some still hang on to it.

                                Michael Backes
                                ----------------------

                                Comment


                                  #46
                                  Hi Serge-

                                  Originally posted by serge_s View Post

                                  Ken, few things to consider...

                                  A nickel is worth 400% more than a penny, but at the end of the day, it's still just a nickel. (EDIT: Don't get too hung up on the numbers.)
                                  It's a game of inches ...sometimes that nickel is all that stands between a smooth landing and an immersion killing stutter or lag

                                  Originally posted by serge_s View Post
                                  I don't know if the extra frames you save will give you additional graphics overhead; I have not seen any data or tests supporting this theory.
                                  Load up your favorite PMDG aircraft at your favorite airport with default settings and then one by one start moving the options sliders to their right ....with the FPS counter enabled.

                                  Originally posted by serge_s View Post
                                  But the real reason why the rate limiter exists in the first place is to set the refresh rate to match that of older monitors. If you have one of those 30 Hz monitors, then I suppose you may benefit from limiting your frames to 30.
                                  I run my 1440P IPS monitor at 150Hz; I lock my FPS at 30 to save my GPU from meltdown and to allow my cpu a chance to load my requested scenery.

                                  Originally posted by serge_s View Post
                                  The changes that Robert described were not only CPUs. If you look at his data table, you will note that he also changed from GTX980 to an GTX2080Ti (which I think he really meant RTX2080Ti). The latter GPU is the best there is for gaming, and there is nothing better available on the market today to produce the smoothest flying experience. In addition, he also has the undefeated king of FPS I9-9900K CPU. So, all in all, he has the best system available to man-kind.
                                  Well, I think the 2080Ti coupled with the 9900K vs the 6700k and 980 is fair ....Again, I think Robert is just giving guidance on what one should expect with respect to performance capacity.

                                  Originally posted by serge_s View Post
                                  For what it's worth, I get about 50 frames out of my system on average. (AMD Ryzen 7-3700X CPU which is only about 25% utilized at full load, and an Nvidia RTX 2070 Super GPU, which is about 75% utilized at full load)
                                  I'll post a graph on what my system is doing in California as imagined by Orbx....but

                                  I can tell you my hardware is fully utilized during my routine flights.

                                  -Ken
                                  Ken Carlin

                                  Comment


                                    #47
                                    Originally posted by serge_s View Post

                                    I don't know if the extra frames you save will give you additional graphics overhead; I have not seen any data or tests supporting this theory. It's an interesting interpretation however.

                                    Thanks - Serge
                                    .....Now if one's base of operation is Heathrow then I'll sit down and refrain from comment. :-)

                                    Ken Carlin

                                    Comment


                                      #48
                                      Originally posted by elmucki View Post

                                      Says who? Its a good sim with purpose. FS9 is old and needs to be put down... but some still hang on to it.
                                      Yeah, I do get your point. Maybe I'm a bit too progressive in thoughts regarding moving onto new better technology. there is always a benefit

                                      But yes, for now, P3d is where I can get the most performance and better addon aircraft like the MaddogX and PMDG Boeing lineups.
                                      Ro Faulk

                                      Monitor ROG PG27U 4K 144HZ
                                      i9,9900K 5.0GHZ, 64GB RAM, SSD 2TB M.2 OS drive, Dual EVGA 2080Ti NVLinked GPU's, MSI, GODlike Z390 MB.

                                      Comment


                                        #49
                                        yup, for now.
                                        Michael Backes
                                        ----------------------

                                        Comment


                                          #50
                                          Thank you for this article! It was very informative. I'm very excited about what the future holds for us simmers. Thanks for the insight!

                                          Chuck Rogers

                                          Comment


                                            #51


                                            Oh the 737 certainly does use the video card. I figure with the same set of external lights I use with the 747 (same P3D environment) I'll burn about 25 more watts on the 1080Ti and use 500MB more VRAM with 737 vs the 747. The graphic was captured using 1440P.

                                            Just plugged in the 737 ngxu tonite for a little loop around the bay; she look as good outside as she does inside and sounds as good as she looks.
                                            Ken Carlin

                                            Comment


                                              #52
                                              Originally posted by FunknNasty View Post


                                              Oh the 737 certainly does use the video card. I figure with the same set of external lights I use with the 747 (same P3D environment) I'll burn about 25 more watts on the 1080Ti and use 500MB more VRAM with 737 vs the 747. The graphic was captured using 1440P.

                                              Just plugged in the 737 ngxu tonite for a little loop around the bay; she look as good outside as she does inside and sounds as good as she looks.
                                              Nice Ken

                                              I run a 9900k with your speeds on a 2080ti the second AMD Ryzen 3700X with my scond 2080Ti the spare one is a 8700k 1080Ti.
                                              I prefer the 9900k before the AMD
                                              I stick with the 9900k until we now how fs2020 reacts to hardware, my plan run SLI 2x2080ti now in p3d v4 no real benefit and lot of addons not support it.
                                              Cpu , really dont know what gone be the the king AMD or the Intel 1090k that seems to be a 9900k with 2 more cores and little stronger IMC OC gone be in pair with the 9900k or the binned one.

                                              Comment


                                                #53
                                                Originally posted by westman View Post

                                                Nice Ken

                                                I run a 9900k with your speeds on a 2080ti the second AMD Ryzen 3700X with my scond 2080Ti the spare one is a 8700k 1080Ti.
                                                I prefer the 9900k before the AMD
                                                I stick with the 9900k until we now how fs2020 reacts to hardware, my plan run SLI 2x2080ti now in p3d v4 no real benefit and lot of addons not support it.
                                                Cpu , really dont know what gone be the the king AMD or the Intel 1090k that seems to be a 9900k with 2 more cores and little stronger IMC OC gone be in pair with the 9900k or the binned one.
                                                Hi Westman! -thanks for chiming in.

                                                One more pict ...really loving this plane

                                                Lax to sfo ....smooth as silk (flown at 1440p)
                                                --Captured just a few minutes ago ....in some way I think the 737 performs better than the 747




                                                Ken Carlin

                                                Comment


                                                  #54
                                                  Originally posted by westman View Post

                                                  Nice Ken

                                                  I run a 9900k with your speeds on a 2080ti the second AMD Ryzen 3700X with my scond 2080Ti the spare one is a 8700k 1080Ti.
                                                  I prefer the 9900k before the AMD
                                                  I stick with the 9900k until we now how fs2020 reacts to hardware, my plan run SLI 2x2080ti now in p3d v4 no real benefit and lot of addons not support it.
                                                  Cpu , really dont know what gone be the the king AMD or the Intel 1090k that seems to be a 9900k with 2 more cores and little stronger IMC OC gone be in pair with the 9900k or the binned one.
                                                  After talking to some dude who works at Nvidia I’m wondering if we’ll even need a video card in the near future. Silicon Valley is beginning to look like a micro chip ...or at the very least a very large motherboard.
                                                  Ken Carlin

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