[08NOV19] Someone is wrong on the internet! Help us fix them...

[rsrandazzo]

Captains,

I have a habit of writing in long sentences, which can be off-putting in the world of the Twitteratti.... And it seems that some folks skimmed through my announcements from yesterday and missed certain details here-and-there, so in the details being repeated across multiple user groups- the truth of things is becoming a bit... distorted.

So here are a few facts we are trying to make sure are clearly communicated, and we would very much appreciate your help correcting the record if you see anyone state otherwise:

WHAT PLATFORMS DOES PMDG SUPPORT:

1. Moving forward, PMDG is developing products in both Prepar3D v4 and the upcoming Microsoft Flight Simulator.
2. We are no longer advancing our products on x86 (32bit) platforms such as FSX, P3D v3.
3. We are no longer planning to explore development on XPlane.

WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN NG3 and NGXu?

We have confused folks a bit with naming conventions, which is understandable- so here is some clarification:

• P3Dv4 and MSFS development are two very very different animals, with very very different capabilities.
• P3Dv4 and MSFS are two different simulation platforms.
• PMDG 737NGu is the P3Dv4 generational replacement to the 8.5 year old NGX.
• PMDG 737NG3 (based upon the same work) will be the MSFS version of our replacement for NGX

To put it slightly differently, NGXu and NG3 are the same core airplane delivered on different platforms. We are branding them differently because they are different platforms, different products and will have vastly different qualities due to their target platforms.

A year from now when both are on the market simultaneously, you will thank us for giving them different names.


WHAT IS THE PROMOTION THAT PMDG OFFERED FOR NGXu PURCHASES?:
After 8.5 years, we have made a tremendous investment of money and manpower to update our venerable NGX simulation. We know many users have been eargerly waiting for us to bring the 737 up to modern standards, and we have finally done so. With the impending arrival of MSFS, we know that some users would hesitate to make the investment to enjoy our work in the Prepar3D v4 environment because they are expecting to transition to MSFS upon it's release.

As a gesture of thanks to our customers that purchase NGXu, we are giving you full credit for your purchase price against the purchase of NG3 in MSFS when that product releases. We thought this would be a nice way to make the transition as painless as possible for you.

We anticipate NG3 going to market at around $139.99. NGXu is priced at $99.99. If you purchase NGXu, you will only be charged $40 at that time, while new customers to NG3 will pay the full $139.99.

There are no coupons to keep track of, no codes, no gimmickery. As long as you buy both products from us using the same user account, the system will handle it for you without any need to keep records or ask.

Our goal is to say thank you- and to keep it as simple and transparent as possible.

Okay- i hope that 'splains it all...

Darnit. Too many sentences longer than 140 characters again...

[leifjt]

If we purchase this how do we know that out computer will be compatible with msfs?

[Jd_jay]

Your purchasing the NGXu because thats the product you want at this moment in time. Not because you want the money taken off of NG3 when MSFS and the NG3 arrived. That is a kind gesture by PMDG thats all.

[Tbarker1989]

If we purchase this how do we know that out computer will be compatible with msfs?

Honestly that is a you problem and not a PMDG problem.

[Captain Kevin]

As a gesture of thanks to our customers that purchase NGXu, we are giving you full credit for your purchase price against the purchase of NG3 in MSFS when that product releases. We thought this would be a nice way to make the transition as painless as possible for you.

We anticipate NG3 going to market at around $139.99. NGXu is priced at $99.99. If you purchase NGXu, you will only be charged $40 at that time, while new customers to NG3 will pay the full $139.99.

Question. Would NGXu still be usable once somebody purchases the NG3 with this credit?

[DDowns]

If we purchase this how do we know that out computer will be compatible with msfs?

Huh? How would any of us know what MSFS will require? That has nothing to do with the discount for NG3.... exactly what are you asking?

[Hazza]

Just for the record - that is what I understood your post to say yesterday.

Leifjt - you don't and can't because MS have not released the system requirements yet. However, this is not about your ability to run FS2020. This is about WHEN you do start to use FS2020 you will be able to purchase the NG3 for the difference in price from the US$99.99 (at this point anticipated to be approx US$40.00). WHEN is subjective! You may be able to run FS2020 on Day 1 or you may choose to move to FS2020 after n years, but you will still have the US$99.99 credit available.

[planemusic]

If we purchase this how do we know that out computer will be compatible with msfs?

Please sign your posts as per the forum rules (it's listed on top of every post).


And you don't because Microsoft hasn't discussed system specs yet for MSFS. But assuming by the time MSFS releases, the PMDG credit you're essentially buying now does not have an expiration date to redeem, then the investment made today is worth it in the long run.

In other words, even if your system does not meet MSFS system specs (which I think if you can run P3Dv4 there's a chance you could run MSFS), you can then always upgrade your system and after redeeming the NG3 (again, assuming there's no redeem expiration set by PMDG).

Ashwant Gonesh

[davidnorfolk96]

Does this mean we could see the MAX come to V4?

[Swaluver88]

I would assume considering it seems they may have modeled and tested it out in P3D v4, but only we can wait and see

[Ephedrin]

If we purchase this how do we know that out computer will be compatible with msfs?

the P3D engine is OLD... REALLY OLD! MSFS will use a new engine, a modern development in modern times using modern technology... I am totally sure that if you can run P3D fine at 25-30FPS now with a stone age graphic engine you won't have any issues displaying MSFS.. Example: GTA5 (several years old) runs "okay" on my system with a i7-6700k, a GTX1080TI and 32GB DDR4 RAM at 1600MHz. the same developer Rockstar Games has just released Red Dead Redemption using modern technology. it's maxed out and totally fluently and looks incredible compared to the old GTA. same system. same user.

Don't worry.

[simtom]

Well, RDR2 is quite demanding though (especially when running on Ultra). But it's nice that they offer around 40 settings to tweak, takes some time but you can really set it to your system specs.

[Ephedrin]

sure.. but the point is that a system that can handle the old engine (FSX and P3D here) will also be able to handle a modern tech sim.

[Captain Kevin]

the PMDG credit you're essentially buying now does not have an expiration date to redeem, then the investment made today is worth it in the long run.

This isn't correct. The original announcement said:

"** Discount will offered for a limited time only. NGXu purchase must be made prior to 31DEC19. Purchase must be made at PMDG. Purchase must be redeemed at www.pmdg.com May not be combined with any other offer."

So it appears there is an expiration date, that date obviously hasn't been specified since it's not known when FS2020 is going to get released.

[Blakewilliams22]

"does not have an expiration date TO REDEEM". Details man, details.

[Captain Kevin]

Yes, I saw that, but as I said, there is an expiration date to redeem since they're only offering the discount for a limited time. The date for that hasn't been specified, but the offer certainly isn't going to be going on forever.

[Peter Graves]

That's good news, but hopefully P3D v5 will be out by then (Just Guessing) so I can run MSFS an P3D v5 on my system and have all the good add-ons with it

[EnQ]

Will PMDG support Prepar3D v5 (or whatever the next major release after v4 might be called)?

All announcements read as if PMDG drops Prepar3D completely after v4, developing new products exclusively for MSFS2020 and providing support only for P3Dv4 but not any later version of Prepar3D.

I would like to stand corrected on this one as it leaves a bad feeling if an established platform (despite its legacy issues) is abandoned so suddenly.

[rsrandazzo]

David,

Does this mean we could see the MAX come to V4?

It does. The issue of Max is a highly political one, and we want to be certain that the rollout of our Max simulation is met with appropriate agreement from Boeing.

Putting a MAX into the simming world right now will invariably attract attention to the simming community that might make boeing uncomfortable- and if that were to happen it could have terrible negative consequences for future boeing based products.

This is why we are sitting on our hands with respect to releasing MAX. We think it is the appropriate, tasteful thing to do right now.

[rsrandazzo]

Daniel,

Will PMDG support Prepar3D v5 (or whatever the next major release after v4 might be called)?

All announcements read as if PMDG drops Prepar3D completely after v4, developing new products exclusively for MSFS2020 and providing support only for P3Dv4 but not any later version of Prepar3D.

I would like to stand corrected on this one as it leaves a bad feeling if an established platform (despite its legacy issues) is abandoned so suddenly.

You are asking me if we are going to develop products for a platform that has not been announced. So the answer to that question is: How the h**l do I know?

When that platform is announced and we have an opportunity to evaluate it for the purposes of our business model, we will make a decision.

[EnQ]

Thanks for the immediate and precise answer!

[maukro1990]

Daniel,



You are asking me if we are going to develop products for a platform that has not been announced. So the answer to that question is: How the h**l do I know?

When that platform is announced and we have an opportunity to evaluate it for the purposes of our business model, we will make a decision.

Robert, will we get a T7 update soon? This "beast" needs PBR and an EFB .

[sooner]

There is something I just can't get out of my head, and now I need to write it in here... :-)

Please let us see NATIVE supported SHARED COCKPIT by the Platform in the MSFS-Version of the 737NG.
I hope so eagerly that this will be finally addressed by the Platform itself, not having PMDG to implement this feature with their own approach.

@rsrandazzo: Thank you so much for years of clear and accurate communication (even if its sometimes negative in some point of view), but as you posted in another thread: there needs to be somebody in a company which tells the bad news too - thank you for making brave decisions!

[Marco]

Thank you very much Robert, I've some more question though, will the 737 MAX be included in the NG3 pack or is it a different product line?Thank you!

[davidnorfolk96]

David,



It does. The issue of Max is a highly political one, and we want to be certain that the rollout of our Max simulation is met with appropriate agreement from Boeing.

Putting a MAX into the simming world right now will invariably attract attention to the simming community that might make boeing uncomfortable- and if that were to happen it could have terrible negative consequences for future boeing based products.

This is why we are sitting on our hands with respect to releasing MAX. We think it is the appropriate, tasteful thing to do right now.

Makes sense! Cheers

[Julean]

I recognise that PMDG cannot work for free in this fantastic work they do.
On the other hand. Having to pay full price $100 dollars within the same platform though shifting to 64 bit was huge, is very expensive for me .

I have bought new versions of the 737 since 2005.
And I have supported with all pmgd aircraft and upgraded them with buying them again and again through their upgrades.

I am really pushed in pulling the upgrade reduction price card this time and also in MSFS 2020.
I know FS20 is huge but is still upgrades within the platforms.

There is the question of an aircraft compatible to a new platform, and the question about and an aircraft expanding its possibilities in its upgrade in the upgraded platform.

Maybe consider the Aerosoft pricing policy more.

It's the same issue in using costly Navigraph map subscription EFDs. It's for me to egocentric solution. I mean for other with higher income its maybe no deal. There must be more alternative pricing solutions to choose between.

It's really gets towards being for me a too egocentric flightsim experience for a person with a normal income.

Some would say:. "Too bad for you Sunny Boys" or like Aerosoft we recognise this.

[AlexFarmer]

I recognise that PMDG cannot work for free in this fantastic work they do.
On the other hand. Having to pay full price $100 dollars within the same platform though shifting to 64 bit was huge, is very expensive for me .

I have bought new versions of the 737 since 2005.
And I have supported with all pmgd aircraft and upgraded them with buying them again and again through their upgrades.

I am really pushed in pulling the upgrade reduction price card this time and also in MSFS 2020.
I know FS20 is huge but is still upgrades within the platforms.

There is the question of an aircraft compatible to a new platform, and the question about and an aircraft expanding its possibilities in its upgrade in the upgraded platform.

Maybe consider the Aerosoft pricing policy more.

It's the same issue in using costly Navigraph map subscription EFDs. It's for me to egocentric solution. I mean for other with higher income its maybe no deal. There must be more alternative pricing solutions to choose between.

It's really gets towards being for me a too egocentric flightsim experience for a person with a normal income.

Some would say:. "Too bad for you Sunny Boys" or like Aerosoft we recognise this.

The Aerosoft pricing policy of releasing the same A320 5 times but requiring payment each time for the update to the same product? :P

[StoogeUK]

Thing is it’s the same price whether you buy now and pay the upgrade price when mfs2020 comes or if you just wait for the new sim. So you are not missing out on a saving so just do what ever you are comfortable with

[ZLA Steve]

I recognise that PMDG cannot work for free in this fantastic work they do.
On the other hand. Having to pay full price $100 dollars within the same platform though shifting to 64 bit was huge, is very expensive for me .

I have bought new versions of the 737 since 2005.
And I have supported with all pmgd aircraft and upgraded them with buying them again and again through their upgrades...

I drove a 1984 Volvo 240 for about 10 years before considering another model despite Volvo making a new version every year. Each subsequent version had more features and was surprisingly priced the same if not more than my current fully operational and enjoyable one.

I bring this up because while many of us share your concerns and/or frustration but you are confusing the DESIRE of staying current with the latest and greatest tech with the NEED to upgrade.

No one has forced you to do anything. You made these choices to remain in the newest ecosystem, not PMDG or Lockheed Martin. While MFS looks incredible and promises a lot of evolution in how desktop simulation is conducted, our current sims run great (better in fact as technology catches up) and it’s helpful to keep that in mind as things change.

[molleh]

Back when Prepar3D was gaining steam and PMDG was in the process of releasing P3D-compatible products, it was discussed that prices needed to increase due to the professional license and usage nature of P3D. FSX prices remained what they were. Now we're moving to FS2020 which is, once again, an entertainment product. I'd expect some price increase since I understand the PMDG products have grown with more features and higher graphical standards and so forth, but this seems like a bit much (moving from $90 to ~$140.) Any thoughts on this?

Molly Norris

[Datalink]

I was kinda hoping that the NG3 would be the same price, not more than the NGXu if it is running on a entertainment platform. Anyhoo, it’s nowhere near release, and I guess with it taking advantage of all the new bells and whistles in MSFS it’ll be worth every penny

[roarkr51]

Just a side note(or image). It looks quite cozy in the cockpit, so fly it, The price will be whatever PMDG decides. DO you feel it is worth the price, buy it, if not, fly Zibo in XPLANE11Annotation 2019-11-09 172409.png

[Bigt]

So the price jump excuses made by PMDG for P3D (Licensing, etc etc) are no longer in play for MSFS but the price remains at $140???? Ok..........

Thierry Nguepdjo

[JB3DG]

So the price jump excuses made by PMDG for P3D (Licensing, etc etc) are no longer in play for MSFS but the price remains at $140???? Ok..........

Thierry Nguepdjo

Inflation. New technology requiring new research and development. Greater workloads. Greater costs of development.

[KVSandleben]

So inflation and development costs have increased prices by 100%?

[Julean]

I drove a 1984 Volvo 240 for about 10 years before considering another model despite Volvo making a new version every year. Each subsequent version had more features and was surprisingly priced the same if not more than my current fully operational and enjoyable one.

I bring this up because while many of us share your concerns and/or frustration but you are confusing the DESIRE of staying current with the latest and greatest tech with the NEED to upgrade.

No one has forced you to do anything. You made these choices to remain in the newest ecosystem, not PMDG or Lockheed Martin. While MFS looks incredible and promises a lot of evolution in how desktop simulation is conducted, our current sims run great (better in fact as technology catches up) and it’s helpful to keep that in mind as things change.

Well Steve I just calculated my buying of planes from PMDG to $1102,6!!! ...through the years...
So I agree with you on the point of desire, Yes I have that,.. PMDG make very good planes and they know that VERY well apparently. ....But from my experience personally I don't play so hard to the limit, to get what I desire.
I am not going at PMDG, I am telling my experience and how feels for me.

I am not going to campaign about this, either people get this or don't. Rest is life.... And I will end this from Islamic law, and just for the record I am Christian. But love and dharma can be found in everything.
In Islamic tradition the "Just price" is an important concept in business. The price that benefits both customers... For some it's the ideal world, others not existing and others just the way to do.
The text is for making a point, not interfering into PMDG's business model, but example of value and pricing.

The Just Price


[Extract from Preface of Islam and Business Ethics by Dr S M Hasanuzzaman,
published by the Institute of Islamic Banking and Insurance, London, UK 2003]

‘When we say that prices must be just, or fair, does this justice or fairness involve a moral value? Wholesale prices for all the dealers are almost the same. Can we then justify price variations at different centres? In Islamic law, if anybody charges an extraordinarily high price, it is termed as grave deception and is unacceptable. The Ottoman Code of Civil Law defines grave deception as higher than 5% (profit) on goods, 10% on animals and 20% on immovable property. The concept lays down the rate of profit but not the sale price. As a matter of fact, the wholesale price alone does not determine the sale price. It is determined by locality, standard of intramural decoration, packing, service, environment and other overhead costs. A trader has to add all the incurred and accrued expenses to the wholesale price, in addition to a profit for himself/herself. What rate of profit he should charge is determined largely by market forces and the nature of the competition, given a normal or prevailing price. All this proves that the concept of a just price is not a moral concept except where monopolies or oligopolies arbitrarily fix an unrealistically high price quite out of proportion with costs.
https://www.islamic-banking.com/know...20Just%20Price


To sum up... I really appreciate the work, staff and the contribution from PMDG, and are expressing my personal view about the price policy and how I like it to improve.

Best Regards

Jens

[Tbarker1989]

Supply and demand my friend. Nobody is holding a weapon to your head forcing you to purchase the product. With regards to your "Just Price" compare it to the FSLabs about the same price and about the same quality, more than the QW 787 and Aerosoft A320 but a way better product IMO, and more than the MD80 which is about the same quality but you have more variants in the NGXu. So to your argument on price that does not hold any weight IMO. We do not know how much development time went into the NG3. We do not know what the cost of said development time was. If you think the development time for the NGXu was the same as the NGX then you are in for a shock. Video game development over the years has become exponentially more expensive over the years due to more sophistication and fidelity in modern video games. All we know is they believe that the to market price is what they (PMDG) should be compensated for their work. Why does it cost more than the game does? The game is a AAA game. The cost to make P3Dv4 or MSFS2020 is higher but the expected amount of sales is higher to offset that cost. That is how Call of Duty only costs $59.99. For instance, I will tell you that the number of people purchasing a specific PMDG aircraft is much lower than how many people that have and will purchase Call of Duty: Modern Warfare on PC alone this year. Yes I know the team working on the newest Call of Duty is much larger than the PMDG development team but dev costs can be correlated to expected revenue.

Lastly I hope I did not ruffle any feathers with this message.

Tim Barker

[HarryCYUL]

i think rsrandazzo forgot to mention the MD11u P3Dv4 release it's ok...memory loss is normal at his age, just post the MD11u announcement later


Harry Giannis

[Serhan]

I just want to write some words; Since 2002 when I was started to sim with FS2002 I used a lot of add-ons to fly. But very few of them I feel satisfied like PMDG products. If I want to fly "as real as it gets" then I mostly preferred one PMDG product. Today if I want to a flight at sim with a plane, for example, a 787 I wish and I wait for that PMDG a software has made for it.
Therefore I totally understand here is a commercial company and this is their decision. And I believe they are entitled to this fee!
As far as I am concerned If I like their product (so mostly I like) and If I have enough budget I buy it. If I haven't, unfortunately, maybe I will not or maybe I'll postpone it for a while. No one doesn't have to give anything for free to me.
Maybe we can criticize just about the name change for PMDG. Cos. I waited for a long time to come NG3 but then NGXu just shows up! That's all.


Thank you for all of works PMDG and well done.


Serhan Onur