PC Option question

[DDowns]

A 750W or 850W power supply is typically plenty for a computer that has a 4070 Ti in it. I wouldn't go over 1000W unless you have two GPUs in the computer. Recording video is not typically a high-power task.

Tim is exactly correct. As an electrical engineer I can assure you that too much power supply capacity is not only a waste of money but inefficient and depending on quality of the switching circuits could also have poorer regulation. Bigger is not better.

[trisho]

A 750W or 850W power supply is typically plenty for a computer that has a 4070 Ti in it. I wouldn't go over 1000W unless you have two GPUs in the computer. Recording video is not typically a high-power task.

I am intended to keep the selected PSU and when the video card drops the price in forty more years (lol) my plan is to swap. Also, the PSU 1.35 KW price wasn't much difference with the lower Watts anyway. It worth the selection.

Patricio Valdes

[DDowns]

I am intended to keep the selected PSU and when the video card drops the price in forty more years (lol) my plan is to swap. Also, the PSU 1.35 KW price wasn't much difference with the lower Watts anyway. It worth the selection.

Patricio Valdes

You ignored my reasoning. More is not better. Most computers with advanced GPU's run a peak 650 W. However, you are the customer and you are always right.

[trisho]

Tim is exactly correct. As an electrical engineer I can assure you that too much power supply capacity is not only a waste of money but inefficient and depending on quality of the switching circuits could also have poorer regulation. Bigger is not better.

I think a PC (any) runs the CPU cooler with higher PSU and added FAN helps the video card cooler too.

Patricio Valdes

[DDowns]

I think a PC (any) runs the CPU cooler with higher PSU and added FAN helps the video card cooler too.

Patricio Valdes

What has CPU temps got to do with size of PSU?? You should acknowledge that you do not posses much in the way of electronics training or education. Do you think a larger PSU runs cooler at a given power output if the power capacity is larger? I hope not, in a switching power supply such as we use today the heat generated varies only a little with power consumed and that is related to the power output. Anyway, I've beat this horse to death time to move on.

[trisho]

You ignored my reasoning. More is not better. Most computers with advanced GPU's run a peak 650 W. However, you are the customer and you are always right.

OK, I can revert the PSU 1.35W selection to 750 W and only saving $20? Later, I want to replace the video card demanding more PSU. It will late.

Patricio Valdes

[trisho]

What has CPU temps got to do with size of PSU?? You should acknowledge that you do not posses much in the way of electronics training or education. Do you think a larger PSU runs cooler at a given power output if the power capacity is larger? I hope not, in a switching power supply such as we use today the heat generated varies only a little with power consumed and that is related to the power output. Anyway, I've beat this horse to death time to move on.

I'm not electronic but I understand something about that. If the CPU and GPU demand power, I understand that a large PSU alleviates the heat dissipation. For a difference of $20 it doesn't hurt to leave a PSU big and ready for a new video card.

Patricio Valdes

[Steve M]

Hi Patricio,
Regardless of the 1.3KW PSU which I agree with Dan about (but you have clearly made your mind up over it), I would seriously spend some time and check out reviews of the 4070 series GPU.
To put it mildly that GPU has received bad press from many reliable and trusted sources in the industry.
Basically it being overpriced and underpowered.
Here are a few examples:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-FMPbm5CNM&t=582s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDRIzS3sGIU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKmmugnOEME&t=341s

As far as CPU's are concerned the i9-13900KF Processor with a boost clock up to 5.80 GHz obviously has more horsepower, but that has much more to do with that clock speed than all those cores when running MS2020.
MS2024 will apparently be much better optimised for multicore CPU's, and so then you may well use some of them for an even greater performance boost.
Just remember in multicore mode that 5.80 GHz boost clock will be less than in single core mode.

EDIT: Saying that it's probably worth reading this article (and others) regards Core i9 13900K MCE and P1P2 Limits to reach full boost clock on all cores, also worth checking out undervolting too to cut down heat and power draw.

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/intel-core-i9-13900k-impact-of-multicore-enhancement-mce-and-long-power-duration-limits-on-thermals-and-content-creation-performance-2375/

I also forgot to add, regards the 64GB, 2x32GB, DDR5, 4800MHz memory, go for the lowest latency memory you can find rather than just the fastest clock speed. 32Gb should be enough unless you are doing other things with the PC that requires more.
You may also find this useful for comparison, pay attention to the 1% and 0.1% lows, and not just the fastest average frames per second regards the clock speeds of the memory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzUqWNe-5cs

Hope that all helps.

[Want2BFlyin]

I'm not electronic but I understand something about that. If the CPU and GPU demand power, I understand that a large PSU alleviates the heat dissipation. For a difference of $20 it doesn't hurt to leave a PSU big and ready for a new video card.

Patricio Valdes

This is not actually correct, but that's ok. I used to think the same thing before I started building my own computers. A more powerful PSU may actually result in more heat, not less. PSUs have an efficiency certification with them. You didn't mention the efficiency rating for this power supply, so I'm going to go with the numbers for an 80+ Bronze PSU. I don't recall the exact numbers, but an 80+ Bronze PSU can be expected to provide around 82% efficiency at 25% load, 85% efficiency at 50% load, and 82% efficiency at 100% load. What this means is that for the best efficiency from the PSU, you want to have the computer drawing around half of the PSU's rated power.

I don't use a 4070 Ti myself, but from what I have been able to find, a typical computer with that GPU under load is going to be demanding around 400-450W from the PSU (that's for the GPU, CPU, cooling, everything). Let's call it 425W. If you had an 850W PSU, that's right at half of its rated power capacity, which means it would be 85% efficient. If it is providing 425W to the computer at 85% efficiency, that means that it is drawing 488.75W from the wall and that extra 63.75W is being lost as heat.

Now, exact same load in the same computer with a 1350W PSU. 425W is just over 30% of the 1350W PSU's power output. That means that the PSU's efficiency is going to be around 82%. In order to provide 425W to the computer at 82% efficiency, the 1350W PSU will be drawing 501.5W from the wall, with 76.5W being lost as heat. Yes, the 1350W PSU can potentially provide more power to the computer, but for the amount of power that you are likely to ask for, it will be less efficient and run a little bit hotter than a smaller PSU (not to mention the extra electricity cost over time).

[rheinis]

Very clear explanation, thanks. Yeah, I also had the "lets buy the biggest PSU I can afford" train of thought when I assembled my pc a few years back. So I bought the Corsair AX1500i. All I could see were raving reviews at the time. Complete overkill indeed but all with the thought that it wil last me a few pc builds, 10+ years at least. Well, I just now looked up its efficiency rating and it has a 92% efficiency rating starting already at just over 200W, peaking at about 94% at 750W and then down to 92% at 1500W again. So I guess I chose wisely after all, phew.. But not really based on knowledge, I must agree. Thanks again for the clear explanation.

[trisho]

After reading the comments in this thread It seems that I better stay with Option 1 and forget about Option 2. It doesn't make sense to upgrade yet. I learned more about in this topic. Thanks Pilots, for participating.

Patricio Valdes

[Want2BFlyin]

After reading the comments in this thread It seems that I better stay with Option 1 and forget about Option 2. It doesn't make sense to upgrade yet. I learned more about in this topic. Thanks Pilots, for participating.

Patricio Valdes

It sounds as though you are already planning to get both computers. Since that is the case, I would say that Option 2 would be the better option for MSFS. However, I don't think it is really optimized for MSFS in terms of cost. There are other options that would provide better value for the cost.

[trisho]

It sounds as though you are already planning to get both computers. Since that is the case, I would say that Option 2 would be the better option for MSFS. However, I don't think it is really optimized for MSFS in terms of cost. There are other options that would provide better value for the cost.

I have the Alienware R8 and I was intended to start an upgrade with AW R15. Today I was in touch with https://jetlinesystems.com/ and found an Option 3 which is this:

GRAVITY GTX

Intel Core i9 13900KF (5.8GHz Boost Clock) 24-Core
12GB Nvidia GeForce RTX 4070 Ti
1200-Watt ATX 3.0 Gold Rated Power Supply

They don't have the selected video card, but they can accommodate and obviously I save something. I was told there is no side effects or performance problems using the selected PSU.

That option 3 is almost double the price of Option 2. So, there is no sense to keep going on and simply stay with my Option 1 for a while.
Any more comments are welcome.

Patricio Valdes

[Steve M]

I have the Alienware R8 and I was intended to start an upgrade with AW R15. Today I was in touch with https://jetlinesystems.com/ and found an Option 3 which is this:

GRAVITY GTX

Intel Core i9 13900KF (5.8GHz Boost Clock) 24-Core
12GB Nvidia GeForce RTX 4070 Ti
1200-Watt ATX 3.0 Gold Rated Power Supply

They don't have the selected video card, but they can accommodate and obviously I save something. I was told there is no side effects or performance problems using the selected PSU.

That option 3 is almost double the price of Option 2. So, there is no sense to keep going on and simply stay with my Option 1 for a while.
Any more comments are welcome.

Patricio Valdes

Hi,
I did a quick price check of the parts quoted for the system you mention https://jetlinesystems.com/product/gravity-gtx/
Note, this includes a 4090 and not a 4070TI which I posted regards earlier in this thread.
For the build they quote $5999 which seemed really high to me.

Using pcpartpicker, and not picking the cheapest prices for the parts they have listed (not even the Windows 11 operating system), the total cost still came to about $4600.
So in this example they are charging at least a $1400 mark up just to build it!
Remember too that they buy parts at wholesale prices (also probably in bulk) and not retail, so that markup is even higher than that!
Frankly that is a rip off, and I suggest you shop around for a better company as that strikes me as pure greed.
I appreciate you may not be using the exact parts listed there, but it still indicates what their business model is, and what they think is reasonable to charge customers for building a system doesn't it!

[Flypops]

I agree with Steve and especially considering it takes an efficient builder less than 3 hours to put one together and that includes a little stress testing.

That would put their hourly rate at about $500 😲. It may not be for everybody but PC's are easy and fun to build yourself.

[Aeronil]

Does anyone know what PC desktop is the best option to pick for the PMDG planes and the reason?

Option 1:
9th Gen Intel(R) Core (TM) i7 9700KF (8-Core, 12MB Cache, Base Speed 3.6 Overclocked up to 4.6GHz across all cores)

Option 2:
13thGen Intel(R) Core (TM) i9 13900KF (24-Core, 68MB Total Cache, Base speed 3.0GHz to 5.8GHz P-Core w/Intel Thermal Velocity Boost)

Patricio Valdes

MSFS2020 was a dog when it came out. It needed the best CPU and GPU. Then they fixed it. After a few updates things got better for mid range video cards. This might be touchy for some that bought the 3090 and then after a few updates could have probably got away with less for a lot less money. If is rare for updates to have such a dramatic improvement on performance, but MSFS rolled out a buggy inefficient coded product initially.

Is option 1 what you already have?

What are your monitor options and visual aids?
Do you have TrackIr? 4k TV? VR? Yoke? Rudder? Controllers?

I see you use it on a 27 inch 4k monitor?
maybe get 2 more and get the 4070ti in surround video?

You see without knowing more it is hard to judge or give advice on if it is worth it for the money.

I have a machine with 2070 Super and it does fine with Vr or 5740x1080p over three 27 inch monitors with TrackIr. MSFS2020 and PMDG in Vr not Maxed out on graphics in Low to Medium. High to Ultra High on everything for the three 27" monitors in Nvidia Surround video.

What are the prices? Are you going to get option 2 and don't have Vr goggles or 4k or Video Surround? I would keep option 1 and spend my money on the experience enhancing items instead of option 2. If you can afford option 2 and plan on all the extras I mentioned then the 4070 Ti will help.

I can run MSFS2020 on my laptop. Asus Tuf F17 3050ti in Vr and it works. PMDG too. On low to medium. A small Tv in 4k barely, so 1080p on a big Tv. Paid $800 for the laptop 2 years ago.. Lol

[Crabby]

Does anyone know what PC desktop is the best option to pick for the PMDG planes and the reason?

Option 1:
9th Gen Intel(R) Core (TM) i7 9700KF (8-Core, 12MB Cache, Base Speed 3.6 Overclocked up to 4.6GHz across all cores)

Option 2:
13thGen Intel(R) Core (TM) i9 13900KF (24-Core, 68MB Total Cache, Base speed 3.0GHz to 5.8GHz P-Core w/Intel Thermal Velocity Boost)

Patricio Valdes

Right now I run that same 9700 KF and it is coupled with a 2070 Super GPU. I have 32 in RAM and I run the GPU locked at 30 fps. I don't chase frames. I use all that left-over power for eye candy. I run at my TV's native resolution which is 3840 x 2160. If I woke up tomorrow and saw that it would do 100 FPS, I would max out everything to knock it back down to 30 fps. Most of my sliders are ultra with a few on high.

[YMML]

Just to share some info from here in Oz, the following system is available from a reputable supplier, off the shelf:

Scorptec Prism RTX 4090 Gaming PC, Intel Core i9 13900K 24 Core, Intel Z790 Chipset, ASUS GeForce RTX 4090 24GB, 64GB 6000MHz RAM, 2x 2TB M.2 NVMe SSD, NZXT H9 Flow Case, 1000W PSU, WiFi, Win 11 Home

Price is $AUD$6,899 which is a approx. $USD4350.00
Includes 2 year warranty so some of those prices quoted above are excessive...not affiliated at all, just a happy customer in the past and seriously thinking of this system now however I'm still on an I7 7700K / GTX 1080ti / 32Gig Ram on a 4K LG 43"monitor. I started with MSFS2020 from the very first alpha intake and as Crabby said I also don't even look at frame rates, I did that with FSX/P3D and spent more time tweaking than flying.

[Steve M]

Just to share some info from here in Oz, the following system is available from a reputable supplier, off the shelf:

Scorptec Prism RTX 4090 Gaming PC, Intel Core i9 13900K 24 Core, Intel Z790 Chipset, ASUS GeForce RTX 4090 24GB, 64GB 6000MHz RAM, 2x 2TB M.2 NVMe SSD, NZXT H9 Flow Case, 1000W PSU, WiFi, Win 11 Home

Price is $AUD$6,899 which is a approx. $USD4350.00
Includes 2 year warranty so some of those prices quoted above are excessive...not affiliated at all, just a happy customer in the past and seriously thinking of this system now however I'm still on an I7 7700K / GTX 1080ti / 32Gig Ram on a 4K LG 43"monitor. I started with MSFS2020 from the very first alpha intake and as Crabby said I also don't even look at frame rates, I did that with FSX/P3D and spent more time tweaking than flying.

Hi Albert,
Yes, much better price and I also note this comes with an additional 2TB M.2 SSD compared to the system mentioned before!
Just shows how overpriced that GRAVITY GTX system is doesn't it, and always worth shopping around for a better deal.

'spent more time tweaking than flying.' Yep been there, done that!