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NOT a PMDG addon question, but RR flies a DC-3 so...

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    NOT a PMDG addon question, but RR flies a DC-3 so...

    I just wanted to ask him ( in the name of the old message exchanges at the "flight simulation" message boards in times of ATP, early nineties ) what he has to say about the new 40th Anniversary DC-3 ?

    I have just taken it up for a ride once, and started by finding it rather strange that I had to use no rudder during the initial takeoff run, at least until the tailwheel lifts off ( then also helped by gyro precession ), but I would think that torque would call for right rudder as takeoff power is applied, rudder trim being set to neutral?

    Any oppinions from you Robert or any other RW DC-3 pilot around, really welcome :-)
    Last edited by jcomm; 21Nov2022, 16:15.
    Jose Carlos Monteiro

    #2
    Hi Jose:
    I am not sure if Robert will "fully" respond to your questions, as the new DC-3 in MSFS is not a PMDG product.

    While it was developed by Aeroplane Heaven it still is, basically, an Asobo add on. Most of these, are not study level (as PMDG's are) and therefore their performance while flying and with the use of various controls, switches, etc. are "as good as possible".

    There are now many YouTube videos on how to operate that new DC-3 and hopefully, you can find answers to your issues in one of them.

    Regards,
    Roberto
    Roberto Stopnicki
    Toronto, Canada

    Comment


      #3
      I saw a topic in the MSFS forum where someone who claimed to be DC-3 rated said it flies completely wrong. Flight characteristics, fuel consumption, power, everything. I haven't tried it and I don't have any urge to change that. Apparently it looks good with the enhancement package. Maybe any skilled modder with background knowledge or knowledgable contacts will take care of it.
      Ryzen 9 5900X, RX 6900XT, 32GB DDR4 RAM @3600MHz, 4k
      Marc Eland
      GFO Beta

      Comment


        #4
        Jose-

        I haven't tried it yet- but I will shortly.
        Robert S. Randazzo
        PMDG Simulations
        http://www.pmdg.com


        Comment


        • Paul K
          Paul K commented
          Editing a comment
          Like Jose, I would be very interested in your overall impressions.

        #5
        This is one reason more to make the DC6 better and better, this DC3 is a toy and people like the iconic vintage airplanes
        Claudio Rampini

        Comment


          #6
          Originally posted by Ephedrin View Post
          I saw a topic in the MSFS forum where someone who claimed to be DC-3 rated said it flies completely wrong. Flight characteristics, fuel consumption, power, everything. I haven't tried it and I don't have any urge to change that. Apparently it looks good with the enhancement package. Maybe any skilled modder with background knowledge or knowledgable contacts will take care of it.
          It is completely wrong. I had a DC3 in FSX a few years ago ( i forget the developer but he was a popular freeware developer) and it was great. Was told that it flew very true to life.. This one in MSFS.. Totally not right. It's a shame because the model is nice. Like so many aircraft on MSFS..
          Jason Saucier

          Comment


            #7
            Originally posted by Claudius View Post
            This is one reason more to make the DC6 better and better, this DC3 is a toy and people like the iconic vintage airplanes
            The DC 6 is great. But I would enjoy another study level vintage bird that is not so large and long range as the DC6..
            Jason Saucier

            Comment


            • Ephedrin
              Ephedrin commented
              Editing a comment
              As long as it has radials 😅

            #8
            Originally posted by Saucey12 View Post

            It is completely wrong. I had a DC3 in FSX a few years ago ( i forget the developer but he was a popular freeware developer) and it was great. Was told that it flew very true to life.. This one in MSFS.. Totally not right. It's a shame because the model is nice. Like so many aircraft on MSFS..
            Manfred Jahn
            Ryzen 9 5900X, RX 6900XT, 32GB DDR4 RAM @3600MHz, 4k
            Marc Eland
            GFO Beta

            Comment


              #9
              Originally posted by Ephedrin View Post

              Manfred Jahn
              Yes! His DC3 was wonderful! I flew many trips on it. I even flew from USA to Europe making a few stops along the way via Iceland. With active sky weather you did hafta manage ice and power conditions or else you were in trouble.
              Jason Saucier

              Comment


                #10
                Originally posted by Saucey12 View Post

                Yes! His DC3 was wonderful! I flew many trips on it. I even flew from USA to Europe making a few stops along the way via Iceland. With active sky weather you did hafta manage ice and power conditions or else you were in trouble.
                Yup, I flew it a lot, too.. mostly in more scenic areas though 😅
                Ryzen 9 5900X, RX 6900XT, 32GB DDR4 RAM @3600MHz, 4k
                Marc Eland
                GFO Beta

                Comment


                  #11
                  Originally posted by Ephedrin View Post

                  Yup, I flew it a lot, too.. mostly in more scenic areas though 😅
                  oh trust me I did that also. but I wanted the challenge of managing the fuel and everything on a long haul. it was fun. maybe we will have that in MSFS 2020 one day...
                  Jason Saucier

                  Comment


                    #12
                    Originally posted by Saucey12 View Post

                    oh trust me I did that also. but I wanted the challenge of managing the fuel and everything on a long haul. it was fun. maybe we will have that in MSFS 2020 one day...
                    The DC6 is perfect for that, too. It‘s fuel system and the crossfeed necessity on longer flights
                    Ryzen 9 5900X, RX 6900XT, 32GB DDR4 RAM @3600MHz, 4k
                    Marc Eland
                    GFO Beta

                    Comment


                      #13
                      Originally posted by Ephedrin View Post
                      Maybe any skilled modder with background knowledge or knowledgable contacts will take care of it.
                      there's already a couple mods on flightsim.to so it looks like it will at least get some attention. not sure how far they can take it, i guess theoretically it could be as good as the jahn version eventually? right now it's just basic stuff like fixing the aux tanks and some flight model tweaks. i'm not sure if it's possible to fix the heading bug inop just by modding files tho. i really just want to see a pmdg or a2a version frankly

                      cheers,-andy crosby

                      edit: i just checked out the lastest version and it's actually a lot of improvements. the carb air gauge is fixed, the heading bug works now, they also upated the starter/mesh/primer switches to be more realistic. also fixed the fuel burn rate
                      Last edited by spesimen; 26Nov2022, 19:17.

                      Comment


                        #14
                        If PMDG ever does another "vintage" aircraft... obviously the DC3 would be awesome but I would pay good money for someone to bring the B29 (Fifi or Doc) to the sim in good fidelity. To me the B29 is in the running for "Best Looking Aircraft" of All-Time. Probably a 0.1% chance but I can dream.
                        Ben St Jean

                        Comment


                          #15
                          Gents-

                          I spent a bit of time tonight with the DC-3.

                          Gosh. Uhm. So.

                          I have a TON of time in DC-3s. DC-3s are magnificent machines with some really really neat flight characteristics and flying qualities.

                          This one has none of them.

                          I was disappointed, because I was really looking forward to flying a DC-3 in MSFS. The most noticeable thing is the total ineffectiveness of the rudder, and the massive over effectiveness of the ailerons, along with the complete lack of adverse yaw in the ailerons.

                          I could go on and on and on and on. Heck I could do one of those dumb videos: "REAL DC-3 PILOT FLIES MSFS DC-3! IS IT WORTH IT?"

                          Nah. Those are so stupid.

                          Robert S. Randazzo
                          PMDG Simulations
                          http://www.pmdg.com


                          Comment


                          • amahran
                            amahran commented
                            Editing a comment
                            Would be neat if you could summarize your feedback to the Asobo dev team (or to Aeroplane Heaven or whoever the original dev was). I’m certain your feedback would carry a lot of weight with it.

                          • Bart
                            Bart commented
                            Editing a comment
                            This sounds to me like the PMDG DC3 for MSFS 2020 really needs to be a thing. I don't think there could be a better group of dev's that could do this classic aircraft justice in MSFS than you guys. Come on Robert....how about it???... Please :-)

                          • rsrandazzo
                            rsrandazzo commented
                            Editing a comment
                            amahran: I offered my input quite a long time ago i first learned they were working to bring the DC-3 into MSFS. I made it clear I needed nothing in return and that the input would be given at no cost. I never heard back.

                            As far as offering my feedback on this one in hopes they pick it up and improve it: I'm still trying to someone (anyone!) to let me talk to the weather people about how out of whack the turbulence model is. Repeated attempts have all lead nowhere. I suppose I need to have more than my measly 25+ years of doing this whole flying thing to be able to offer feedback on such a topic. I'll keep trying to gain experience so i can be helpful. - RSR

                          #16
                          Originally posted by rsrandazzo View Post

                          I could go on and on and on and on. Heck I could do one of those dumb videos: "REAL DC-3 PILOT FLIES MSFS DC-3! IS IT WORTH IT?"

                          Nah. Those are so stupid.
                          And it would also be a total waste of time.

                          Time better spent doing something like... Working on a roadmap for a PMDG DC-3 for MSFS maybe?

                          Pretty please??
                          Regards,
                          --Joe Markowski

                          Comment


                            #17
                            And that‘s how you make a lot of money with a bad product.
                            Ryzen 9 5900X, RX 6900XT, 32GB DDR4 RAM @3600MHz, 4k
                            Marc Eland
                            GFO Beta

                            Comment


                              #18
                              Robert,

                              thank you so much for taking some of your precious time to run those tests. Unfortunately the results are what I was expecting :-/

                              I haven't tried any of the MODs available from Flightsimulator.To, but I will try to when possible.

                              All I can hope now is that PMDG can some day offer their own DC-3, so that it can be the option, just as my preferred big prop in MFS is the DC-6 !

                              All the Best !
                              Jose Carlos Monteiro

                              Comment


                                #19
                                Originally posted by Ephedrin View Post
                                And that‘s how you make a lot of money with a bad product.
                                And of course, now there is a free DC3 within the sim, there is very little chance of something akin to the DC6 ever being built by another developer.

                                Comment


                                  #20
                                  Originally posted by DD_Arthur View Post

                                  And of course, now there is a free DC3 within the sim, there is very little chance of something akin to the DC6 ever being built by another developer.
                                  Can't tell if this is sarcasm or not, but if it isn't, we have an Asobo ATR coming as well as one by Blackbird, as well a stock and (I believe) two third party Pilatus Porters. Don't think that MSFS having a stock 747 derailed PMDG's plans for one, either.
                                  Regards,
                                  --Joe Markowski

                                  Comment


                                    #21
                                    Originally posted by jsmarko3 View Post

                                    Can't tell if this is sarcasm or not, but if it isn't, we have an Asobo ATR coming as well as one by Blackbird, as well a stock and (I believe) two third party Pilatus Porters. Don't think that MSFS having a stock 747 derailed PMDG's plans for one, either.
                                    The third party developers of these planes had no idea Asobo were going to produce their own versions when they started development.
                                    Also, it appears Asobo had no idea either that 3rd party’s were already working on these planes when they announced their own.
                                    It’s not a great story. Everyone likes free stuff but now we’re basically stuck with a what can only be described as a sub-standard DC3 with a very peculiar flight model, a lack of in-depth systems and texturing of a “my god, my eyes!” standard.
                                    It falls far below the standard we know can be achieved in this sim but has effectively taken away a big slice of potential future sales for other, more capable developers.

                                    Comment


                                      #22
                                      Yeah but a good DC3 will be appreciated by most. People are aware that the DC3 we have is… not up to standards. A C172 would sell if it was done properly aka A2A/Accusim. The question is not „what“ but „how“. There is a Captain Sim 777 after all.
                                      Ryzen 9 5900X, RX 6900XT, 32GB DDR4 RAM @3600MHz, 4k
                                      Marc Eland
                                      GFO Beta

                                      Comment


                                        #23
                                        No matter what the question is, the answer is a PMDG DC-3.
                                        Paul Kirkland

                                        Comment


                                          #24
                                          I wouldn‘t reject an A2A Accusim version either.
                                          Ryzen 9 5900X, RX 6900XT, 32GB DDR4 RAM @3600MHz, 4k
                                          Marc Eland
                                          GFO Beta

                                          Comment


                                            #25
                                            Originally posted by rsrandazzo View Post
                                            Gents-
                                            I have a TON of time in DC-3s.
                                            but i thought "tabitha may" was a C47 ................
                                            cheers
                                            john martin

                                            Comment


                                            • rsrandazzo
                                              rsrandazzo commented
                                              Editing a comment
                                              John- Originally constructed as a C-47 but converted to DC-3C. Very elaborate alteration done by Garret Corp. in 1947. It makes her very different than a C-47 and far more capable. - RSR

                                            • vadriver
                                              vadriver commented
                                              Editing a comment
                                              RSR ...... thanks for the note. So been a DC3 a year longer than I a human.
                                              Do you know its current hours / cycles ..... I believe it has a new owner.

                                            #26
                                            Originally posted by vadriver View Post

                                            but i thought "tabitha may" was a C47 ................
                                            afaik she was a DC-3, was then converted to a C-47 and then rebuilt to a DC-3.
                                            Ryzen 9 5900X, RX 6900XT, 32GB DDR4 RAM @3600MHz, 4k
                                            Marc Eland
                                            GFO Beta

                                            Comment


                                              #27
                                              This was my concern as soon as I heard it was AH that was bringing the DC-3 to MSFS. Their FSX version was... well, this

                                              Still holding out hope for the Jahn version someday. I doubt I'll ever ever load this one up.
                                              Andrew Crowley

                                              Comment


                                              • jsmarko3
                                                jsmarko3 commented
                                                Editing a comment
                                                From what I heard in various FS circles, he has retired from making add-ons and will not let his work be ported over to MSFS.

                                              #28
                                              Hi everyone,

                                              Not sure if that would correct all its limitations but there is a DC3 mod that seems to apply an extensive amount of corrections. Any feedback on that one?

                                              Duckworks DC-3 Improvement Mod » Microsoft Flight Simulator
                                              Pierre Ayoun

                                              Comment


                                              • mglan80
                                                mglan80 commented
                                                Editing a comment
                                                I've tried that mod and it does seem to address the worst of the tendencies, but still a ways to go. It read like there will be further revisions from that modder, so hopefully more improvement. The model looks very nice and it's great to see the library of liveries filling up.

                                              • Ephedrin
                                                Ephedrin commented
                                                Editing a comment
                                                mglan80 I talked to the modder on Discord today. Is highly motivated to bring the DC-3 to the best state he possibly can. I think if he manages to do all the stuff he wants a lot can be expected. =)

                                              #29
                                              Hmm, I tested a couple MODs, the one above and yet another one from flightsim.to but unfortunatelly I give up starting takeoff when I firewall the throttles, even unlock the tail wheel, and start my takeoff run without having to use ANY rudder input unless I have a crosswind, up to tail lift which then brings (probably) some P-Factor into the equaition?

                                              I went checking if these DC-3s are using the CFD / Re-injection entries in the flight-model.cfg and engines.cfg, and inbdeed they are, so, all I can say is that I would expect quite a bit more from a DC-3 model ...
                                              Jose Carlos Monteiro

                                              Comment


                                                #30
                                                look ma'
                                                I can takeoff 17tons and fly 200mph for hours.

                                                no amount of modding will fix this unfortunately and like written above, since there's a free implementation that most "youtube experts" have deemed as good enough I suspect there will be no other 3rd parties interested in developing a DC-3.

                                                what we have is just an overpowered baron with different 3d model.
                                                Attached Files
                                                Leo Quelcerto

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