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PMDG 737 Weather Radar

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    PMDG 737 Weather Radar

    Its been almost a month since SU10 why isnt there a weather radar? Is it coming with the EFB?
    Philip Matusiewicz

    #2
    The "weather radar" that Asobo provided access to is pretty much useless when it comes to providing useful information. Yes, it can show where there is precipitation, but it will show that there is precipitation in front of you even if you are thousands of feet above that precipitation. The weather radar information that was provided basically will show precipitation at every altitude if there is precipitation at any altitude.
    Tim Lincoln
    My YouTube Channel

    Comment


      #3
      I've been wondering if there's been any thought to get the weather radar data from a 3rd party application rather than from Asobo. I recall in FSX the weather radar used data from ActiveSky weather application rather than from FSX.

      Comment


      • CoyoteLoco
        CoyoteLoco commented
        Editing a comment
        A 3rd party weather company has to develop one and put it out on the market. PMDG can't incorporate something that's not out. I don't know if ActiveSky is doing anything for MSFS or not. I run P3D.

      • Captain Kevin
        Captain Kevin commented
        Editing a comment
        If I remember, Active Sky can't do anything if MSFS won't let them.

      #4
      Originally posted by Realblox View Post
      Its been almost a month since SU10 why isnt there a weather radar? Is it coming with the EFB?
      For future reference RSR's updates are very good at answering questions like this
      Joe Colehouse

      Comment


        #5
        Emi has provided an explanation why a weather radar would be useless:
         
        Fred Huisman / EHAM

        Comment


          #6
          It’s a shame no one figured how to get realistic weather radar working in MSFS . Hopefully soon.
          Paul Gugliotta
          13900K CPU - 4090 GPU

          Comment


            #7
            Originally posted by Paulyg123 View Post
            It’s a shame no one figured how to get realistic weather radar working in MSFS . Hopefully soon.
            The real shame is that Asobo doesn't have anyone with aviation experience other than a few joy rides and recent PPL's in a C-172. This lack of knowledge reveals itself in several ways. But here we are, the product is making lots of money and that is the one and only goal.
            Dan Downs KCRP
            i7-10700K 32GB 3600MHz 3080Ti

            Comment


            • illuminous
              illuminous commented
              Editing a comment
              Glad it is making a lot of money, because MSFS has completely reinvigorated the flight sim industry. In the sim itself, you use the C-172 as an example and I’m certainly finding it a far better experience coming from P3D.

            • Arty57
              Arty57 commented
              Editing a comment
              Dan, I’m interested in your involvement with the Asobo team. From your statement it seems like you have some “insider knowledge”. I’m curious how many hours do you have in flight sim development. It must be significant that you can make such a pejorative assessment of what is currently the best flight simulator available even by PMDG standards
              -Braun Tacon

            • DDowns
              DDowns commented
              Editing a comment
              Asobo themselves made a statement in response to a customer question, "do you have any flight experience?" Their answer was yes, they have two designers that recently earned their PPL and are gaining experience in the C-172. So, low time pilots.

            #8
            Last week's MSFS Developer Stream had a tangential reference to this - basically, the weather data they get from MeteoBlue isn't in the format necessary to do a "correct" modern weather radar like those available in modern aircraft. They will be discussing this issue with their data provider, along with some other issues related to weather data.
            Herb Schaltegger - Father, husband, lawyer, engineer & getting too old for this $#!t. Do Not Taunt Happy Fun Ball!TM.

            Comment


            • DDowns
              DDowns commented
              Editing a comment
              Interesting.

            • VHOJT
              VHOJT commented
              Editing a comment
              Hopefully a bit of historical data too!

            #9
            I get the feeling that Asobo has the ambition to make the sim realistic. The know-how may be lacking, though, but I also get the feeling that they are aware of it and want to change that to some degree, at least.
            André Hansson

            Comment


              #10
              Originally posted by AndreH View Post
              I get the feeling that Asobo has the ambition to make the sim realistic. The know-how may be lacking, though, but I also get the feeling that they are aware of it and want to change that to some degree, at least.
              Or more simply they try to make you believe that.

              The number one goal for a business is to make money.
              The question you need to ask yourself is:
              "What will gain more from making a modern and realistic weather radar"​
              Cedrice Rive

              Comment


              • Stearmandriver
                Stearmandriver commented
                Editing a comment
                That doesn't make sense though... the better and more accurate Asobo makes their product, the more users they'll have. Users who pay them. There's absolutely a financial incentive.

              • Mickel
                Mickel commented
                Editing a comment
                They'd not be making a weather radar, though I s'pose they could. It's the wrong question.

                What would I gain from being able to improve the reliability (or accuracy, or whatever metric you have) and readability of a commercially available weather model?

                The ability to sell it to those who can use it but can't afford to develop it.

                That's not us. We'd just be the test dummies.

              • CDrive
                CDrive commented
                Editing a comment
                Andrew,
                I am a dev, and I can assure you that adding or improving my products would make me gain nothing financially but worse than that would make me lose money, because you have to spend time developing new content.
                After there is a certain limit that if you worked well from the beginning, you have not improved certain things.
                Another important point, do not confuse bugfix updates with enhancement updates. The second is not obligatory for anyone.

              #11
              Much of their new money, I would bet, is coming from the Xbox crowd. I doubt that many of them care for accurate weather radar or could use it.
              Bob Zolto

              Comment


              • Want2BFlyin
                Want2BFlyin commented
                Editing a comment
                Well, yes. Like it or not, MSFS (and X-Plane, Prepar3D, and all of the previous versions of Flight Simulators) is a game. It is not certified for use in flight training. Can it be beneficial? Certainly. But you can't include any of your time spent in MSFS on the form that you fill out when applying for your pilot license. Even certified training simulators can only add a specific amount of time to your total time when applying for a pilot license.

              • Captain Kevin
                Captain Kevin commented
                Editing a comment
                Tim, Mark stated that a Level-D simulator was a game, hence my inquiry. Presumably those are certified for flight training.

              • Want2BFlyin
                Want2BFlyin commented
                Editing a comment
                Ah, I missed that line. Sorry about that. I suppose from a certain point of view, a Level D simulator COULD be thought of as being a "game." Training simulators utilize many of the same processes that video games use to accept input from a user/users and then provide feedback based on that input either visually or through hardware interfaces. The only significant difference between a training simulator and MSFS/X-Plane/P3D/etc. is that the training simulator is required to be certified that it meets some very specific criteria. Desktop simulators can often meet some of those criteria, but I don't think they can meet all of them, and they certainly haven't been certified to meet any of the requirements for training simulators.

                Does being certified as a training simulator make a Level D simulated not a game? From one point of view, probably yes. From another point of view, not really.
                Last edited by Want2BFlyin; 24Nov2022, 22:15.

              #12
              I personally think the technology at get a weather radar image in 3D dynamic model and have a simulated instrument try to take a cross section slice on the weather system is extremely complex and I just don't think anyone has the know-how to accomplish this feat.
              Paul Gugliotta
              13900K CPU - 4090 GPU

              Comment


                #13
                Originally posted by Paulyg123 View Post
                I personally think the technology at get a weather radar image in 3D dynamic model and have a simulated instrument try to take a cross section slice on the weather system is extremely complex and I just don't think anyone has the know-how to accomplish this feat.
                It is indeed complex, but we were able to get something approaching a proper solution in P3D by using PMDG in combination with Active Sky. The folks at HiFi could most likely bring Active Sky to MSFS if Asobo would just open up the weather engine to allow them to use it.
                Tim Lincoln
                My YouTube Channel

                Comment


                • Crabby
                  Crabby commented
                  Editing a comment
                  If Asobo did that, then we could have a proper weather radar without any help from ActiveSky.

                #14
                Originally posted by Want2BFlyin View Post

                It is indeed complex, but we were able to get something approaching a proper solution in P3D by using PMDG in combination with Active Sky. The folks at HiFi could most likely bring Active Sky to MSFS if Asobo would just open up the weather engine to allow them to use it.
                This is an issue that has a difficult solution, since MSFS uses the meteorology provided by Meteoblue, which is a paid service and not precisely cheap, so I don't think Meteoblue is willing to allow any application to access the data provided by MSFS. Bad business.
                Gerardo Cabezon

                Comment


                  #15
                  Originally posted by Paulyg123 View Post
                  I personally think the technology at get a weather radar image in 3D dynamic model and have a simulated instrument try to take a cross section slice on the weather system is extremely complex and I just don't think anyone has the know-how to accomplish this feat.
                  I've been thinking about this. Now I'm no programmer and wouldn't know the first thing about how complex this might actually be, but I've read that the sticking point is that there's no elevation data associated with precip? Surely Meteoblue has cloud tops data though, or at least we know MSFS does even if they're intelligently inventing it, because the sim knows where and how high to draw clouds.

                  So it seems to me that if they would just pass this extra bit of data (cloud tops height) via the SDK, a wx radar could be coded that painted precip in the correct places, up to cloud tops height. Of course that's not perfectly realistic, ignores the decrease in reflectivity as you get into frozen precip above the freezing level in convective cells etc... but honestly, for sim purposes, it would be fine. It would be better than any other wx radar depiction we've had in any sim, since weather and convective cells in general behave more correctly in MSFS than they do in any other sim.

                  There's no reason manual tilt and gain couldn't be modeled with this info, but even an "auto-only" type radar (auto tilt and gain) would be welcomed by the community I bet...

                  Seems like it should be possible?
                  Andrew Crowley

                  Comment


                    #16
                    Originally posted by Gerardius View Post

                    This is an issue that has a difficult solution, since MSFS uses the meteorology provided by Meteoblue, which is a paid service and not precisely cheap, so I don't think Meteoblue is willing to allow any application to access the data provided by MSFS. Bad business.
                    I believe that HiFi has their own weather sources for Active Sky. If they were to create a version of Active Sky for MSFS, it most likely would not be using any of Meteoblue's data but would instead be injecting Active Sky's weather into MSFS as it did with P3D, so there shouldn't be any conflict there.
                    Tim Lincoln
                    My YouTube Channel

                    Comment


                    • Crabby
                      Crabby commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Of course, there is probably a reason they have NOT done it. REX has a weather engine for MSFS and no one is making a weather radar with it.

                    #17
                    You would need a 3D weather model at every elevation. So when you tilt the radar up or down it will take a slice of the weather model at a specific angle to the radar (including possibly the flight path off the plane also). Someone correct me here: (based on EMI's video) . say you are at FL350 and a storm is ahead of you with tops at FL300. Your radar should be clear. If you tilt it down, it'll take a slice of the storm an angle. Would you get the same result of you pitched the plane down? I think "YES"?? so the radar display in MSFS has to also compensate for flight profile and radar tilt angle. That's a lot of math!!
                    Paul Gugliotta
                    13900K CPU - 4090 GPU

                    Comment


                    • kvuo75
                      kvuo75 commented
                      Editing a comment
                      active sky manages to do it in p3d

                    #18
                    Radar is stabilized so that aircraft attitude does not change the picture. You can turn this off but no one ever does because there's no reason to. So pitch can be ignored for sim purposes.

                    In the 737 (and most airline radars these days) tilt and gain can be automatically managed as well. You can manage them manually, but auto works best most of the time and would also be fine for sim purposes.

                    This is why I think cloud tops could be functionally used as precip tops. That's simplified but fine in a sim where all convection is simplified anyway (but still much better than we've had before.) The math involved should be simpler than, say, computing a VNAV profile...
                    Andrew Crowley

                    Comment


                      #19
                      Interesting conversions going on over at Avsim and MSFS forums about the weather radar.
                      There Seem to be a few conflicting opinions

                      https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/6...he-fenix-a320/


                      https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t...date/546318/42

                      Comment


                      • Crabby
                        Crabby commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Imagine that. All it takes is one "expert" to opine against another "expert" and see the conflicts arise. It boggles my mind that everyone seems to need some kind of third party okey dokey for their recreation (or other life activities). They seem to love to divide up in camps and chirp at each other. Reminds me of the opening few pages of 2001 A Space Odyssey where the ape-men would gather at two sides of a pond to thump their chests and whoop and holler, neither side knowing what they were whooping and hollering about.

                      • TH454
                        TH454 commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Reading that Working Title says everything is there for the WASM planes, and PMDG and Fenix saying that is not so I don't think a weather radar will be coming anytime soon.

                      • Ephedrin
                        Ephedrin commented
                        Editing a comment
                        WT are free to develop a correctly working WXR to prove their words.

                      #20
                      I know it was mentioned at least - but here is the point in the recent Dev Q&A video, where they mention about the upcoming conversation with their weather provider to get additional data for snow cover, as well as weather radar.

                      Jason Kitch

                      Comment

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