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SU 10 Update broke my Plane

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    SU 10 Update broke my Plane

    After Su 10 Update all built in planes fly ok and I have smooth frames, But PMDG 737-700 will get all sorts of problems Like hitting reversers while I push throttle forward and activating speedbrake forth and back and all kinds of things, I have no problem with default planes, I tried DLSS and The normal Taa that i use. Also If I have to reinstall PMDG do I need to deactivate anything?

    Thanks!

    Mihai Blaga
    Mihai Blaga
    Ocz 1250W, Asus X Formula, Cpu 8086K, 32GB RAM, Msi RTX 2080 8GB. MFS2020, PMDG 737-700 BRUNNER CLS-E NG Yoke and BRUNNER CLS-E Rudder, Hotas Warthog Yoke + Throttle.

    #2
    That suggests that the bindings for your controllers have been messed with somehow. Sometimes MSFS likes to reset those under weird situations. Check them and make sure they're correct.
    Elijah Meadows

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by ManyPandas View Post
      That suggests that the bindings for your controllers have been messed with somehow. Sometimes MSFS likes to reset those under weird situations. Check them and make sure they're correct.
      Hi, thaks for the replay, I have now realized that even the build in planes behave the same.... I will have a look at the controls..... Thaks..

      Mihai Blaga
      Mihai Blaga
      Ocz 1250W, Asus X Formula, Cpu 8086K, 32GB RAM, Msi RTX 2080 8GB. MFS2020, PMDG 737-700 BRUNNER CLS-E NG Yoke and BRUNNER CLS-E Rudder, Hotas Warthog Yoke + Throttle.

      Comment


        #4
        My bad I had assigned that controll to another game doing somethjing else and I had moved a switch on that controller in the other game and left it there, that whats was causing the reverser to trigger.... I have now problems with the autopilot not engaging for some reason.

        Can DLSS have anything to do with autopilot or plane behaviour?

        Mihai Blaga
        Last edited by Ctvredvirus; 21Sep2022, 22:47.
        Mihai Blaga
        Ocz 1250W, Asus X Formula, Cpu 8086K, 32GB RAM, Msi RTX 2080 8GB. MFS2020, PMDG 737-700 BRUNNER CLS-E NG Yoke and BRUNNER CLS-E Rudder, Hotas Warthog Yoke + Throttle.

        Comment


        • JasonK
          JasonK commented
          Editing a comment
          DLSS is purely related to how graphics are rendered on the screen using some machine learning tech, so they look good while impacting the card less. It has should not have ability to affect behavior of an aircraft.

        #5
        Ok so i found out that with dlss the graphics are super, perfect frames an smoothnes but for whatever reason the displays and the text within them becomes blurry and the graphics inside them dose not update that fast with dlss on which made me to belive it was the planes autopilot not responding or going haywire. Changing the setting to TAA everythinng is looking crisp but i lose some frames. I gues its a matter of Nvidia updating their drivers… thanks for the help.

        Mihai Blaga
        Mihai Blaga
        Ocz 1250W, Asus X Formula, Cpu 8086K, 32GB RAM, Msi RTX 2080 8GB. MFS2020, PMDG 737-700 BRUNNER CLS-E NG Yoke and BRUNNER CLS-E Rudder, Hotas Warthog Yoke + Throttle.

        Comment


        • JasonK
          JasonK commented
          Editing a comment
          DLSS needs some amount of training to build an ML model that works well with a given application/game/sim that uses it. It's basically predicting what should be portions of an upscaled frame. In nVidia's presentation the other day, they give a brief overview of how DLSS has advanced in complexity - but the later versions of course improve on issues that were in the early ones. Interfaces and gauges has been something I've seen many people have concern over. DLSS may end up looking fantastic from an exterior view, but only so so from the interior.

        #6
        I'm seeing some weird behavior with the reverse thrust and autobrakes since the update. With autobrake 2 armed, I’ll throw on the reversers, and I can hear them spool up but my speed won’t reduce and sometimes even increases a bit. Only thing that will slow me down is manual braking. Anyone else seeing this?
        Jim Herrod
        PMDG 737-700BDSF
        MSFS2020

        Comment


          #7
          Originally posted by JH2022 View Post
          I'm seeing some weird behavior with the reverse thrust and autobrakes since the update. With autobrake 2 armed, I’ll throw on the reversers, and I can hear them spool up but my speed won’t reduce and sometimes even increases a bit. Only thing that will slow me down is manual braking. Anyone else seeing this?
          This is because of your selected autobrake level. The autobrake system controls the rate of deceleration and uses the IRS to determine if the decel rate is being achieved, and if not adds more or less brake. With the use of reverse thrust the load on the brakes is reduced further. Try the landing again with level 3 selected and see how the rollout and decel to taxi speed feels.

          Edit* (I reread your 2nd sentence) I have seen some reports of reverse thrust sending forward thrust depending on how your controls were setup.
          Angelo Cosma

          Comment


            #8
            ""DLSS needs some amount of training to build an ML model that works well with a given application/game/sim that uses it. It's basically predicting what should be portions of an upscaled frame. In nVidia's presentation the other day, they give a brief overview of how DLSS has advanced in complexity - but the later versions of course improve on issues that were in the early ones. Interfaces and gauges has been something I've seen many people have concern over. DLSS may end up looking fantastic from an exterior view, but only so so from the interior."""

            Ok so what does this mean, it will train itself the more we use the simulator with DLSS on or will it get updates from Nvidia updating the predictions made.
            Will the new prediction updates work with all DLSS cards or do we need to buy the 3090 or 4090

            Mihai Blaga
            Mihai Blaga
            Ocz 1250W, Asus X Formula, Cpu 8086K, 32GB RAM, Msi RTX 2080 8GB. MFS2020, PMDG 737-700 BRUNNER CLS-E NG Yoke and BRUNNER CLS-E Rudder, Hotas Warthog Yoke + Throttle.

            Comment


              #9
              Originally posted by Ctvredvirus View Post
              Ok so what does this mean, it will train itself the more we use the simulator with DLSS on or will it get updates from Nvidia updating the predictions made.
              Will the new prediction updates work with all DLSS cards or do we need to buy the 3090 or 4090

              Mihai Blaga
              Sorry, I was overly brief. Some core things about DLSS and it's ML(AI) model to be aware of...
              • DLSS 1.0 required an ML model to be built in nVidia's datacenters for each specific game that supported it. This was done by producing super high resolution frames, a lower resolution, comparing them and learning what to fill in when it sees similar lower resolution frames at gameplay time.
              • DLSS 2 / 2.1 still uses an ML model built by nVidia, but it is general purpose in that nVidia uses all sorts of games/visuals as references. Newer updates to this model benefit games over time - BUT you only see those updates when a driver update happens to include an improved model. (Which, we are still waiting on the official nVidia Game Ready Driver update). This implementation also included motion vectors to help the engine on your graphics card understand where objects on different parts of the screen were moving, to better predict how to create a higher resolution frame.
                • Various modes were introduced with this, that a user could select from: quality, balanced, performance, ultra performance
                • This implementation runs on RTX 20 and 30 series cards
              • DLSS 3, that was just announced with the RTX 40 cards, is exclusive to those cards. It involves a more complex system of using higher resolution reference frames and can generate multiple predicted frames to further increase frame rate at a higher resolution.
              So to your question, those with 20/30 series RTX cards should see improvements as nVidia driver updates have new ML Models, that they've in all likelyhood will have added thousands of hours of MSFS flight time to it. Hopefully in cockpit as well as external - across all kinds of optional content that could be used in sim. Without that updated model, DLSS could very likely doing the best it can with a model that has never seen MSFS visuals in its training.

              To get the most advanced features of the DLSS 3.0 will require a 40 series RTX.
              Jason Kitch

              Comment


              • Ctvredvirus
                Ctvredvirus commented
                Editing a comment
                Thanks for taking you time.

                Mihai Blaga

              #10
              Originally posted by JasonK View Post

              Sorry, I was overly brief. Some core things about DLSS and it's ML(AI) model to be aware of...
              • DLSS 1.0 required an ML model to be built in nVidia's datacenters for each specific game that supported it. This was done by producing super high resolution frames, a lower resolution, comparing them and learning what to fill in when it sees similar lower resolution frames at gameplay time.
              • DLSS 2 / 2.1 still uses an ML model built by nVidia, but it is general purpose in that nVidia uses all sorts of games/visuals as references. Newer updates to this model benefit games over time - BUT you only see those updates when a driver update happens to include an improved model. (Which, we are still waiting on the official nVidia Game Ready Driver update). This implementation also included motion vectors to help the engine on your graphics card understand where objects on different parts of the screen were moving, to better predict how to create a higher resolution frame.
                • Various modes were introduced with this, that a user could select from: quality, balanced, performance, ultra performance
                • This implementation runs on RTX 20 and 30 series cards
              • DLSS 3, that was just announced with the RTX 40 cards, is exclusive to those cards. It involves a more complex system of using higher resolution reference frames and can generate multiple predicted frames to further increase frame rate at a higher resolution.
              So to your question, those with 20/30 series RTX cards should see improvements as nVidia driver updates have new ML Models, that they've in all likelyhood will have added thousands of hours of MSFS flight time to it. Hopefully in cockpit as well as external - across all kinds of optional content that could be used in sim. Without that updated model, DLSS could very likely doing the best it can with a model that has never seen MSFS visuals in its training.

              To get the most advanced features of the DLSS 3.0 will require a 40 series RTX.
              As an engineer I appreciate the concise over view you just provided, so let me toss this out to see if I can learn something. My scant knowledge of DLSS is that it's something of value to users with lower performing GPU's where it provides a slight boost in frame rate. However, if frame rates are good (mine are locked at 30 fps anyway) then DLSS is just not worthwhile. How far off am I?
              Dan Downs KCRP
              i7-10700K 32GB 3600MHz 3080Ti

              Comment


              • JasonK
                JasonK commented
                Editing a comment
                Spot on. It's an alternative upscaling (and in the case of 3.0 the complete creation of frames) to allow one to render at a lower resolution yet still get a great image at a higher quality. Some may do this to hit an FPS target, others may already be able to hit that target at a lower quality setting - so adjusting for a higher quality and using DLSS may work for some as well.

              #11
              SU10 Broke my plane too. Ground power wont turn on, Taxi light switch flickers on and off without manipulation as well as the beacon light, and my nav light switch is on and the nav lights do not work... I even turned the time of day to night time to confirm and they do not work... Anyone else experiencing these issues?
              Taylor Potter

              Comment


                #12
                Originally posted by Ctvredvirus View Post
                After Su 10 Update all built in planes fly ok and I have smooth frames, But PMDG 737-700 will get all sorts of problems Like hitting reversers while I push throttle forward and activating speedbrake forth and back and all kinds of things, I have no problem with default planes, I tried DLSS and The normal Taa that i use. Also If I have to reinstall PMDG do I need to deactivate anything?

                Thanks!

                Mihai Blaga
                All of you who got their planes broke by SU10...how many of you were using SU10 Beta?
                When the beta program is discontinued, you don't just get a small update and whala you are on SU10 Public Release. You get the WHOLE damn sim installed again, FROM SCRATCH and since it started over you have to start over from scratch. The only way to not have this happen is if you use symbolic links and have your addons installed in a custom location. You default stuff won't appear to be problematic because they are installed from scratch too. You probably didn't read this Beta Testers: New Information on Joining/Leaving the Beta - Alpha/Beta Archive / SU10 Beta Archive - Microsoft Flight Simulator Forums​ or this [HOW-TO] Change the installation path of installed packages inc community folder - Community Support / New Pilot Guides - Microsoft Flight Simulator Forums
                Mark "Crabby" Crabtree AAL311 | PHL
                I7-9700KF | 2070 Super | Honeycomb Alpha/Bravo | MFG Crosswind

                Comment


                • dchilders
                  dchilders commented
                  Editing a comment
                  That's incorrect, you only have to re-install the entire sim if you leave the beta BEFORE the public release. If you just wait until the public release is out and then leave the beta program, you will just have a small update (if any). I'm not sure how it worked before, but that's how it worked in this SU10 beta.

                  Back to this topic, though, SU10 seems to have messed up lots of peoples bindings from what I've been seeing on various forums and discord groups.

                • Crabby
                  Crabby commented
                  Editing a comment
                  I can tell you from first hand experience with SU5 or 6, can't remember exactly. When the public release came out I had a brand new sim install. The only way to make sure this does not happen is to not have a default install and then you will probably have to follow the information for changing what the sim thinks is the default community folder installation, as I linked above. So yes, and if you still don't believe me how about this tidbit directly from MSFS :"There is always a risk that you may have to re-install the sim when joining/leaving a flight, so please keep this in mind before participating. If you have MSFS content installed completely on a custom path, you will have a much lower chance that a full re-install will be necessary when the update is officially released. However, if your sim content is installed in the default path selected by the in-game content manager, you may have to reinstall the whole sim when moving from the test build to the public build."

                  Notice it said test build to public build. That is on the link I put above. Both those links should be read THOROUGLY by anyone thinking of doing the beta. For me, I will only do a beta if it fixes something I need an immediate fix for.
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