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[21MAY22] PMDG 737-700 Developers Update: Pending Changes in the Cooker...

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    [21MAY22] PMDG 737-700 Developers Update: Pending Changes in the Cooker...

    Captains,

    TL;dr: We have a ton of stuff going on with our continual improvement program for the 737-700. Want to know more? Come back and read when you have time!

    We thought we were going to push out an update for the 737 late this week, but we are still at work on a few pretty invasive changes and decided to sit on our work a bit longer rather than jamming a micro update out the door that winds up breaking something important. Someone once said something about discretion being the better part of valor... or was it something about the wisdom that comes from past mistakes... I forget which.

    All the same, I wanted to give you an idea what we are doing so you have a sense of what is taking place in the back room!

    Armen is at work on continued improvements to the sound environment. As the airplane has gone out to users, a couple of oddities have appeared and he has been working with a fantastic resource counterpart at Asobo who has been helping him to work through a few changes that will mitigate those issues going forward. Because Armen is Armen, and because professional sound engineers are normally by definition, perfectionists- he has been continuing to cull through the massive library of recordings we made with the live airplane in order to improve upon his already magnificent work.

    On the model end, Vin and Jason continue to work through the taskings sent to them by our tech support team. Those taskings are made up of reports provided to our support team directly, as well as a number of observations made here by various users. Many of the details they are tweaking are very small, but the nice thing about suddenly having so many sets of eyeballs looking at the work is that very little goes unnoticed so they are doing that cleanup while simultaneously working on the 600 and 800 projects.

    Code side we have a couple of victories to report. I have mentioned these in a few other threads, but they are important enough that I'll put them here too:

    - Flashing artifacts on the displays: Some users have seen this phenomenon- most have not. It seems that those who do see it see it occasionally, for the most part. We did see this prior to release, but it was constrained to the EFIS/MAP version of the display layout. We brought it to the attention of Asobo back in September, but they were a bit distracted by their own agenda, we were distracted by ours, and Alex took it upon himself to engineer what we thought was a fix for it. Unfortunately, right before release when SU9 was published by Asobo it came back in even more aggressive form but again only in the EFIS/MAP mode. We made the executive decision to lock you out of the EFIS/MAP option package until we could get it resolved, but then the day we released one of our beta testers reported seeing it in the PFD/ND format. Obviously with many many thousands of times more customers than beta testers- a number of you have also seen it.

    We re-floated this to Asobo and the good news is that one very enterprising developer (Thank you, Eric!) reported back the following day that the source of the problem had been identified as a problem in the GDI+/NANO layer of the sim has been fixed internally at Asobo. The fix will roll out to customers concurrent with SU10. There really isn't much you can do to trigger it or prevent it- it seems to be something that either happens or doesn't... But- they found it.

    - Pause in all forms seems not to play well with the 737: We have also elevated to Asobo something else from our September list of "stuff" we reported and that is "how the airplane behaves when the user exits to a menu or pauses." When in pause, the sim doesn't currently communicate to C++/WASM based projects that it is in pause. The airplane's core logic continues to think that the airplane is flying happily along, but it cannot understand why the position has stopped changing or why the airplane is not responding to control commands- so it keeps trying. This can lead to horrendously convoluted results when you unpause the thing.

    We have been asking for some time for the ability to detect that the sim is in pause- and we were informed early this week that it is being investigated. We thought we'd hear results by end of the week, but I suspect they simply forgot so I'll jangle the line early next week in hopes that this fix will also appear in SU10.

    - A Few Items Related to Control Inputs: One of the invasive items we are working on involves finding a way to make the 737's rudder/ground steering inputs play well with game controllers and twist-grip style joysticks. The 737 (and all Boeings) have a very nice, but complex steering interconnect mechanism that makes flying them in crosswind conditions a joy. Changes made to the nose steering axis by asobo with SU9 broke this functionality, and we are still awaiting an updated SDK so that we can get a better idea what it is they changed. We have asked a number of times on the topic and the answers have been vague, which tells me the person getting the question probably isn't the same person who made the changes in the platform. We have tried a number of solutions that can best be described as hacks to get the game controller and twist grip stuff working properly- but haven't found anything stable enough to call a solution. Work continues.

    - Choppy Animation of the control column: This one is peculiar and would be simple to solve if we had a debugger that allowed us to work with the code in real time. Unfortunately we are left here creating software tools to dump data out of the sim into text files in real time so that we can see what various inputs and outputs are doing- and this is a bit like reading year old newspapers in order to find investment advice. The date we are looking at in this environment is so outdated that it doesn't tell us what the simulator is giving to the model the control the animation until long after the event has taken place- and then we aren't entirely sure which event corresponds to which test. Sounds fun, doesn't it? My kingdom for debugging capability more advanced than what we used to do back in 1992.... It remains under investigation.

    - TrimWheel Animation Improvements: An area that I am working on is improvement in the animation control for the trim wheels. We actually took high speed video of a marked trimwheel operating in various trim modes in order to correlate it it to the rigging documentation so that we can determine how fast/slow the wheel will turn and how many radians it will rotate per index of ANU/AND trim. I thought we had done this once before, but apparently we hadn't actually corroborated the results in a live airplane previously and I suspect the documentation may not be telling us the entire story. Needless to say, this change will look really nice when we give it to you. (It **might** slide to the next update if I run out of time before this update- which is possible because of my flying schedule next week...)

    -Pop-Ups of Displays: We have mentioned a few times that the C++ methods required to make the displays in the 737 "pop up" have been locked out of availability, thus preventing us from having the displays pop up as we have done in all of our products going back to 2008. Mathijs and Hans, or good friends at Aerosoft, reached out to lets us know we may have missed a notation in an update cycle of the SDK a while back that provides a provision to make this possible. We don't know for certain if it works yet, as we haven't had a chance to implement their recommendations- but I expect we will get to testing it on Mon/Tue next week and will report results. We use a different display drawing method than Aerosoft, but based on what I know technically, I don't think this will be problematic.

    BTW: You frequently hear me talk about how much back-chat goes on between developers and how one aspect of the developer community that I really enjoy is how much we all try to help one another un-stick problems in order to benefit the community. We have worked with Aerosoft since the year 2000 and Mathijs and Hans are both good friends to PMDG and to the dev community as a whole. It is always nice knowing another developer has your back and will ring you up to offer good advice if they see you knock your knee on something.

    - A Ton of Other Items: We have a change list that already surpasses 70 items that have been changed for the upcoming update. These include a range of things from code corrections, documentation corrections, model fixes, texture improvements, clickspot tweaks and more.

    DANGER: No, I didn't list your favorite "can you tell me if <something> is included because it is clearly the most important thing you should be doing."

    That doesn't mean it isn't/hasn't made the list. It also doesn't mean it won't make the list later. We don't answer those kinds of questions because it becomes a never ending challenge/reply litany that takes a ton of time and doesn't really help anybody out. Your patience is appreciated.

    - Timing of the update: I originally thought we would put the first of two updates into testing on Tuesday and release it to you on Thursday or Friday. We are deep into some fixes and just need more time. Right now my expectation is that we'll give the update to our testers on Wednesday for verification and then push to you on Thursday or Friday. There is some chance we might go earlier, some chance we might go later. All depends upon how it goes on Mon/Tue!

    - The 737-600 and 737-800: Both are moving through development on schedule.. . We expect to have review images of the 600 shortly! (See what I did there? Shortly? 737-600? SHORTly? )

    Robert S. Randazzo
    PMDG Simulations
    http://www.pmdg.com



    #2
    Thank you for the update, we know you guys are running around with your hair on fire to get this stuff fixed, it is greatly appreciated.
    Damon L.

    Comment


      #3
      Thanks Robert for the update. Keep up the good work.
      JORGE JUAN | PUA687
      PMDG BOEING TESTER.jpg
      https://photos.google.com/search/_tr...PADssWVy-FAENy

      Comment


        #4
        I was keenly looking for something on LNAV. Also, there's a running thread around plane freezing up upon exiting a hold (https://forum.pmdg.com/forum/main-fo...irplane-freeze).
        Hope these are on your radar.

        Comment


          #5
          Thanks for the update, loving the 737 so far !!

          G
          Gary Davies

          Comment


            #6
            Thanks Robert! I'm here as I got MSFS frozen on the approach to Vienna from Barcelona... Oh well... I know, you'll fix this.
            Andreu Escuain


            i7-10900 @ 3.60 GHz - be quiet! Dark Rock 4 - HyperX Kingston 32GB RAM @ 3200 MHz DDR 4- 2TB m.2 SSD WD Blue - MSI GeForce GTX 2080 Super 8GB GDDR

            Comment


              #7
              So great that there might be a solution for the popouts, a lot of people will be really happy with that!

              Gr.

              Robert Koolstr
              Robert Kools

              Comment


                #8
                With PMDG and Fenix, MSFS is finally becoming interesting for more study simming.

                So happy that the BBJ was deliver directly, so good to be out of "normal" routes :-)
                Lionel Fellay
                LSGS
                simming since FS98

                Comment


                  #9
                  Pop-Ups of Displays: We have mentioned a few times that the C++ methods required to make the displays in the 737 "pop up" have been locked out of availability, thus preventing us from having the displays pop up as we have done in all of our products going back to 2008. Mathijs and Hans, or good friends at Aerosoft, reached out to lets us know we may have missed a notation in an update cycle of the SDK a while back that provides a provision to make this possible. We don't know for certain if it works yet, as we haven't had a chance to implement their recommendations- but I expect we will get to testing it on Mon/Tue next week and will report results. We use a different display drawing method than Aerosoft, but based on what I know technically, I don't think this will be problematic.


                  This is music to all home cockpit builders ears. Just hope it works out OK and without a heavy loss of FPS. Thanks for looking into this important issue.
                  Last edited by roarkr51; 21May2022, 11:20.
                  Roar Kristensen
                  www.flightsim4fun.com
                  Home Cockpit software developer

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Fantastic news! Love the -700

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I hope we’ll see the ability to configure our throttle axis so we can use part of the axis for reverse thrust. This is the only airliner I have for MSFS that lacks that ability.
                      Dave Reage

                      Comment


                      • Bolton
                        Bolton commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Check the simhanger on YouTube for the bravo throttle axis.

                      #12

                      Thanks to Robert for the Update. We look forward to further developments
                      Tomas Zima Prague

                      Comment


                        #13
                        Originally posted by regis902 View Post
                        I hope we’ll see the ability to configure our throttle axis so we can use part of the axis for reverse thrust. This is the only airliner I have for MSFS that lacks that ability.
                        I wish that the MSFS function Toggle Reverse Thrust worked - my Turtle Beach throttles have a bottom detent that registers as a button. Being able to use that to trigger reverse thrust and then move levers forward to modulate reverse thrust would be great. Right now, I set that detent to Decrease Thrust on each throttle (per Luke’s/Britsh Avgeek’s suggestion) and it does work well. But it also means maximum reverse thrust on every landing, which is not consistent with real-world practice due to noise abatement concerns or the fact that it’s entirely unnecessary for lighter weight landings or when using long runways.
                        Last edited by DrVenkman; 21May2022, 14:45. Reason: typos
                        Herb Schaltegger - Father, husband, lawyer, engineer & getting too old for this $#!t. Do Not Taunt Happy Fun Ball!TM.

                        Comment


                          #14
                          Robert not pressure on our end you guys are in the right direction and I know it will be fixed! In regards to the HST wheel. I have tested this in the hangar on the real plane extracted from AMM when you set the FLAP between 1-40 units the time it takes for the HST to move fully from NU to ND is between 31-39 sec and when Flap are UP it will take between 46- 56 seconds (700) (800 behaves similar just a bit faster with flap down) I remember on NGXu you simulated this very well I did not take the time back then for me was enough to see the speed changed. and also in MSFS the only thing I noticed is the wheel will not turn with trim sound commanded by AP it behaved bugged, manually trim via TCA Boeing Yoke and moving it thru Honeycomb Quadrant trim wheel it does it correctly. Also; the sensitivity on the trim wheel should be adjusted a bit so if I touch it by mistake, it should Not disconnect the AP. it should have micro-second delayed to prevent inadvertently AP disc. you guys are doing a great job at PMDG !! Thank you for this Update!
                          Rolando Olmo

                          Comment


                          • bomberpj
                            bomberpj commented
                            Editing a comment
                            concur with sensitivity on trim wheel

                          #15
                          Wing flex animation is choppy too. Led landing lights is missing a single clickspot. Trim wheel continues to make noise. Cabin lights can’t be managed from the fmc even though the manual states that. Speaking of the manual. It refers to the 737-900 instead of the -700
                          Rogier Beekhuis

                          Comment


                            #16
                            Patiently waiting for the -600 to hit the Marketplace while I fly the BAe 146...

                            I will pick the cheapest 737 you put out, so it's the -600 for me...I don't fly long routes anyhow.
                            By the time it'll be in the Marketplace it will propably have a EFB tablet and XBox Controller steering on the ground, I guess.

                            One thing I have not understood well...maybe somebody can explain.
                            I read these aircraft come with their own navigational database.
                            Does it not use the MSFS AIRAC that is updated bi-monthly ? Because my flight planning software (LNM) uses that, so I am a bit confused if I can even plan flights correctly with what I have. At some point in time, eventually the data that the aircraft comes with will differ from what I have with MSFS.
                            Or I haven't understood it right, which is also a very likely possibility 🙃

                            Comment


                            • PelicanEagle
                              PelicanEagle commented
                              Editing a comment
                              Navigraph/Simbrief is our contract for FP.s and charts and moving plane on charts! I think MSFS does not provide the service for PMDG only for their default aircrafts with Garmin GPS

                            #17
                            I love flying the PMDG 737. It's fantastic. I really hope you guys up your EFB game however. If GFO isn't going to happen that's fine. But we really would like to see more integration, acars, CPDLC etc. thanks for the update
                            Dave Gray

                            Comment


                            • HenrikIsaksen
                              HenrikIsaksen commented
                              Editing a comment
                              Definetly agree with this.
                              A fleshed out EFB, ACARS, CPDLC and some other small details like being able to open the window, cockpit door, adjust radio volume etc. would all be great immersion additions

                            #18


                            Good comms, thanks!!
                            Mike Murphy
                            Commercial, Instrument, Rotorcraft-Helicopter

                            Comment


                              #19
                              Originally posted by rsrandazzo View Post
                              - TrimWheel Animation Improvements: An area that I am working on is improvement in the animation control for the trim wheels. We actually took high speed video of a marked trimwheel operating in various trim modes in order to correlate it it to the rigging documentation so that we can determine how fast/slow the wheel will turn and how many radians it will rotate per index of ANU/AND trim. I thought we had done this once before, but apparently we hadn't actually corroborated the results in a live airplane previously and I suspect the documentation may not be telling us the entire story. Needless to say, this change will look really nice when we give it to you. (It **might** slide to the next update if I run out of time before this update- which is possible because of my flying schedule next week...)
                              Well should be 15 rotations per unit, no? So that‘ll be 30π rad if that’s what you were asking for 🤣

                              Etienne Deho

                              Comment


                                #20
                                Hi and thank you for this great product.

                                Any news on SDK availability ?

                                I have a small problem with my home cockpit: the only "things" that I cannot visualize externally are the negative values ​​of the Vertical Speed ​​of the Autopilot and the Altitude and Landing Altitude pressurization values.

                                Thanks for the attention.
                                Ciao

                                Comment


                                  #21
                                  TL;dr: Basically perfect plane, just Asobo made it buggy 🤣
                                  Twój Stary

                                  Comment


                                    #22
                                    The update could have only said "working on pop out displays" and I'd be in love. You guys rock!!
                                    Jonathan Johnson

                                    Comment


                                      #23
                                      Now with the release of Fenix A320, I’m honestly disappointed with PMDG’s 737. What specifically does it bring in msfs that’s so different compared to the NGXu, other than maybe better lighting? “Built from the ground up” seems very misleading to this community when the aircraft looks like a port over from P3d. Visually the Fenix has a superior exterior and interior model including a highly detailed cabin. The systems, displays, and soundscape is extremely detailed and they’ve gone the extra mile with everything. Even 200+ circuit breakers are functional with failures accurately tied to them. It implements ACARS and direct communication with SimBrief all be it with the expense of portability to Xbox but why does that matter when it’s intended to be study level(not for a video game console). This has all been done by a brand new developer who’s made use of all msfs’s features it has to offer with its first product. With all this for $12 cheaper, the PMDG 737 seems to me like a rip-off and it’s a shame.
                                      Hector Pitti

                                      Comment


                                      • mglan80
                                        mglan80 commented
                                        Editing a comment
                                        "Rip-off" is quite a strong term, and I don't agree, but can't argue with you on the extremely high bar Fenix has set. It seems to be the ultimate add-on for desktop simming and I'd be over the moon if I knew how to program an Airbus. I don't have the time right now to learn a new manufacturer, but I'm half inclined to buy it just to look at it and listen to it!

                                      #24
                                      Great update. I am so happy PMDG (RSR) gives frequent updates. I am still waiting for other developers to tell us when their 3 year old project will be released! Or if their product will be MSFS comparable - nothing but silence from them. PMDG is simply amazing. Thanks.
                                      Paul Gugliotta

                                      Comment


                                      • Swaluver88
                                        Swaluver88 commented
                                        Editing a comment
                                        Stop looking on qualitywings 😂

                                      #25
                                      Excellent work PMDG,Robert thankyou for update this is great news.
                                      Danny Z.Cebis

                                      Comment


                                        #26
                                        I don't know if this is a bug or not
                                        I tested it several times to test auto landing.
                                        However, when I was almost approaching the runway, the autopilot turned off on its own.
                                        This has happened many times.
                                        I don't know if this is a bug or I'm doing something wrong.
                                        Kim young ju

                                        Comment


                                          #27
                                          I'm holding off with any negative comments until we're through the "Early Adopter Period". For those who have already purchased the plane it might be worthwhile having a read of Robs post from 19 April (t.ly/-CQ7) where he discusses the Early Adopter Period.
                                          Last edited by Oswald53; 21May2022, 23:55.
                                          Harry Schraishuhn - System Builder

                                          I7-9700K @ 5Ghz, AORUS Z390 Master Motherboard, Corsair H100i AIO, AORUS 1080ti Xtreme, HyperX Predator 32GB, Samsung 1TB NVMe + 2 x 1TB SSD's, 27" LG 27GL850-B QHD Display, Cooler Master MasterCase H500, Cooler Master 1000 Watt PSU, Win10, Logitech X52 Pro

                                          Comment


                                            #28
                                            Originally posted by redsonssi View Post
                                            I don't know if this is a bug or not
                                            I tested it several times to test auto landing.
                                            However, when I was almost approaching the runway, the autopilot turned off on its own.
                                            This has happened many times.
                                            I don't know if this is a bug or I'm doing something wrong.
                                            Kim-

                                            Something is turning off the AP. I have done many monitored Auto-Lands without issue. Are you pressing /selecting ANYTHING when the disco occurs?
                                            Best- Carl Avari-Cooper

                                            Comment


                                            • redsonssi
                                              redsonssi commented
                                              Editing a comment
                                              I'll check it out when I fly again later. Thank you.

                                            #29
                                            Having fun flying the 737, so thanks that it’s finally out. I do have some notes for the updates in the future, things I’d like to see:
                                            • EFB as well optioned (or better) as Fenix’s. Performance calculations at the very least to start.
                                            • VNAV update to U14 from the current U10, as mentioned by a few RL 737 pilots (sometimes it doesn’t do a good job, e.g. it doesn’t hit constraints just so on an descent to avoid flying level segments when unnecessary).
                                            • VNAV updates so it doesn’t over/undershoot a restriction. This happens regularly. Using VS e.g. at 1000 fpm to slow down the vertical speed doesn’t help. Multiple 737 pilots have mentioned the real plane doesn’t do this and is very good at hitting and maintains constraints.
                                            • More automation for the boarding/loading/refueling process, so I can just set the values and then the automation does everything in real-time in the correct order, e.g. refuel first, then board and load cargo. Alternate accelerated automation and loading times for when we have less time would also be welcome.
                                            • The option to save the state of the aircraft automatically per livery, e.g. fuel, etc. after landing and the option to restore that particular save automatically on the next flight / session. E.g. restore last state would restore how the aircraft was left.
                                            • Add the option to save frequency settings in a panel state save, so the last used frequencies are active on the next flight for that particular aircraft. At the very least use 122.8 as the default active VHF1.
                                            • A secondary flight plan.
                                            • Increase the rotating speed of the frequency knobs when holding the left mouse button down to tune e.g. 122.225 from 122.750. The speed of the altitude feels much better and is just the right speed.
                                            I think that’s it but I’m sure I forgot about something.

                                            Thanks for the great work team PMDG! 🖖🏻
                                            Last edited by Moridin; 22May2022, 00:21.
                                            Sincerely,

                                            Wojtek Pietrusiewicz

                                            Comment


                                            • bomberpj
                                              bomberpj commented
                                              Editing a comment
                                              They work for me, plus put luggage on the belt or containers (minor cosmetic, i know)

                                            • Moridin
                                              Moridin commented
                                              Editing a comment
                                              bomberpj what works for you?

                                            #30
                                            Fenix had an issue with the rudder system as well on gamepad controllers, however theirs did not work at all. They did find a solution and fixed it, but I do not know if their issue is the same what PMDG is currently experiencing on the nose wheel steering for gamepads as well.

                                            Also is just me or does the autopilot overshoot a selected altitude at times?
                                            Sergio Gutierrez

                                            Comment

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