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P3D v5 Blues

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    P3D v5 Blues

    Writing this just after another crash - this time nearing approach to KLAX from CYYZ in the NGXu. I'm hoping this will be my place to find solace in fixing the v5 routine crashes that leave no trace. I upgraded from v4 in early October and boy do I regret it now. I've been dogged by these CTDs that occur seemingly randomly and leave nothing in the Event Viewer. No pause, no freeze, it just disappears. I've trawled the usual places for fixes and glints of insight, but no joy. I'm nearly at the point of uninstalling all and going base install for a bit just to enjoy some longer flights again.

    Are there any wise old hands here that can help trouble shoot this? Please no suggestions of audio drivers, CMOS batteries, PSU, "fresh" Windows installs or BIOS tweaks. I've seen all that non-sense on Avsim and it's rarely the issue. Anyway, my particulars:

    P3D v5.2.22.27615
    Windows 10 Home (v. 19042.1348)
    Intel i7-8700K (no overclocking), 16 GB RAM, NVIDIA RTX2070 8 GB

    Loads of airports and scenery - no pattern with crashes around certain locations

    Always run with:
    ActiveSky for v5
    EnvTex, EnvShade, EnvSound
    Ultimate Traffic Live v2
    ChasePlane
    Volanta
    SimToolKitPro

    Crashes have happened almost exclusively with PMDG planes, but that's because it's during a several hours long session. It has happened with the A2A Constellation as well.
    Matthew Glanden

    #2
    I had many CTD‘s with UTL, it was in P3D4 though. When I changed to AIG these problems were gone.
    Ryzen 9 5900X, RX 6900XT, 32GB DDR4 RAM @3600MHz, 4k
    Marc Ehnle

    Comment


      #3
      I still use UTL in P3DV5.2 with no issues at all. Can’t remember the last time I had a system crash so I don’t know.
      Victor Green

      Comment


        #4
        I feel you, I've had crash after crash recently, so much so that I've not flown a complete flight for the past 3 months. Mostly its the dreaded "GPU has been disconnected" crash for me, I have no idea how to tackle it and I have come to the point where I am considering leaving P3D for what it is and just wait for the release of the 737 for MSFS and completely switch over.

        Sorry I can't be of any help to your question, Matthew.
        Sander Rutte

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by mglan80 View Post
          Writing this just after another crash - this time nearing approach to KLAX from CYYZ in the NGXu. I'm hoping this will be my place to find solace in fixing the v5 routine crashes that leave no trace. I upgraded from v4 in early October and boy do I regret it now. I've been dogged by these CTDs that occur seemingly randomly and leave nothing in the Event Viewer. No pause, no freeze, it just disappears. I've trawled the usual places for fixes and glints of insight, but no joy. I'm nearly at the point of uninstalling all and going base install for a bit just to enjoy some longer flights again.

          Are there any wise old hands here that can help trouble shoot this? Please no suggestions of audio drivers, CMOS batteries, PSU, "fresh" Windows installs or BIOS tweaks. I've seen all that non-sense on Avsim and it's rarely the issue. Anyway, my particulars:

          P3D v5.2.22.27615
          Windows 10 Home (v. 19042.1348)
          Intel i7-8700K (no overclocking), 16 GB RAM, NVIDIA RTX2070 8 GB

          Loads of airports and scenery - no pattern with crashes around certain locations

          Always run with:
          ActiveSky for v5
          EnvTex, EnvShade, EnvSound
          Ultimate Traffic Live v2
          ChasePlane
          Volanta
          SimToolKitPro

          Crashes have happened almost exclusively with PMDG planes, but that's because it's during a several hours long session. It has happened with the A2A Constellation as well.
          Matthew,

          If the event viewer is not showing anything it will be very difficult to pinpoint the reason. As first step I would suggest to start flying without using any programs and see if this helps, then start introducing one by one additional programs and see if any will cause the crash
          Chris Makris (Olympic260)
          PMDG Technical Support
          http://www.pmdg.com

          Comment


          • mglan80
            mglan80 commented
            Editing a comment
            Thanks, Chris. Agreed that without the event viewer I'm just shooting in the dark. I believe I'll start with AI traffic at 0%. I have a feeling it's related to that.

          #6
          The one things I miss with v4.5 - the stability. I flew it for years without a crash. I never even used the save function. Now I'm back to saving several times a flight. I've found no solution either.
          André Hansson

          Comment


            #7
            Have you considered backing off on your settings a bit?
            Victor Green

            Comment


            • mglan80
              mglan80 commented
              Editing a comment
              Yes, I did take it down a notch from where I'd set it. I'm about a notch below where I had v4 set. I understand that apparently the scale was adjusted in v5 and the same settings in v4 and v5 are not the same visually.

            #8
            I've been flightsimming since 2005 or so and P3D V5.2 HF1 is the most stable platform I've used, by far. That is, despite a fully-loaded sim with a mass of addons. (MSFS I haven't used so far but I hear it has CTDs, too.)
            So like Chris suggested, try flying without additional programs, or leave out one at a time, starting with the one most likely to cause crashes. Ensure you have bathymetry not enabled. Rebuild the P3D.cfg and shaders. Also look into Victor's suggestion; my only inflight CTD (out of dozens if not hundreds of flights operated) occurred when I experienced severe stutters and low frame rates.

            Comment


              #9
              Ditto Marius.... I installed P3Dv5 and subsequent updates as they were released. I do not recall ever having a CTD with the current v5.2 HF1; however, I do not use any artificial traffic (too artificial) and it is often reported back with v5 released that traffic programs with out of date airplane textures would cause crashes.

              I still do all my sim flights in P3D and only launch MSFS when there are updates (and I have four hours to download them) and when there is an on-going PMDG beta test. I much prefer P3D for flying even if MSFS is a much better scenery simulator.
              Dan Downs KCRP
              i7-10700K 32GB 3600MHz 2080Ti

              Comment


              • mglan80
                mglan80 commented
                Editing a comment
                I'm beginning to suspect this is the cause. I haven't added any new models since using in v4, but it seems to be the only reasonable culprit. It also presents itself as a mysterious "flash crash."

              • Lanica
                Lanica commented
                Editing a comment
                So, Dan, do you just use the default AI or none at all? Just wondering.

              • DDowns
                DDowns commented
                Editing a comment
                Victor, no AI traffic. I did try it years ago but it didn't resemble anything close to live traffic that I was used to flying IRL and it's easier for me not to get frustrated everytime it does something stupid or unrealistic. Same goes for AI ATC... can't stand it. I let my imagination add to the experience.

              #10
              PMDG also relies on microsoft visual C++ librairies.
              I has solved some issues before by uninstalling those libraries, and install newly ones downloaded from MS.
              Same goes for the MS .net libraries.
              A simple action worth trying.
              René Moelaert EHLE

              Comment


              • mglan80
                mglan80 commented
                Editing a comment
                Two good suggestions. I reinstalled .net libraries last night. I should try the C++ libraries, too. As you say, simple actions.

              #11
              Originally posted by HarvesteR View Post
              I feel you, I've had crash after crash recently, so much so that I've not flown a complete flight for the past 3 months. Mostly its the dreaded "GPU has been disconnected" crash for me, I have no idea how to tackle it and I have come to the point where I am considering leaving P3D for what it is and just wait for the release of the 737 for MSFS and completely switch over.

              Sorry I can't be of any help to your question, Matthew.
              I had series of GPU "crashes" (DXGI) in P3Dv5.1, and was going nuts trying to figure it out. The GPU temp monitor I have was routinely showing about 85+ degrees. I had my frame rate set at unlimited out of habit. I'm not sure what made me try this, but I set the frame rate to 29 FPS during a flight, and watched the GPU temp drop 20 degrees in about as many seconds. I haven't had a GPU issue since then. Hope this helps!
              Pete L.

              Comment


              • mglan80
                mglan80 commented
                Editing a comment
                Thanks, Pete. I'm not getting the DXGI errors and temps are normal. I've got the frames limited to 59 using NVIDIA to match my monitor. The sim set to unlimited. Seems to work very well. I do love the performance gain from v5, just not enjoying the troubleshooting of a new sim after all the stability of v4 I experienced.

              #12
              Originally posted by Pete L. View Post

              I had series of GPU "crashes" (DXGI) in P3Dv5.1, and was going nuts trying to figure it out. The GPU temp monitor I have was routinely showing about 85+ degrees. I had my frame rate set at unlimited out of habit. I'm not sure what made me try this, but I set the frame rate to 29 FPS during a flight, and watched the GPU temp drop 20 degrees in about as many seconds. I haven't had a GPU issue since then. Hope this helps!
              Pete... make sure you have Hardware Accelerated GPU Scheduling enabled in your Windows 10 display settings. This is a feature resident in DX12 and was only added to Windows 10 earlier this year. Go to Settings > Display > Graphics Settings (Below Multiple Displays - ignore that as misleading) > Hardware Accelerated GPU Scheduling = ON and reboot computer.

              Might not have anything to do with your DXGI problems but it might.
              Dan Downs KCRP
              i7-10700K 32GB 3600MHz 2080Ti

              Comment


                #13
                Thanks for all the suggestions here, fellas. I'll try a few and let you know how I get on. Takes awhile to produce results when flying 6+ hour flights during the work week! It certainly does stink when you just put the kids to bed and head to the computer expecting to be able to hit TOD in a few minutes and land at your destination.
                Matthew Glanden

                Comment


                  #14
                  Good luck Matthew and let us know how you do.
                  Victor Green

                  Comment


                    #15
                    I realize now I left off REX SkyForce off the list of applications I use every flight. More digging around, including here, has pointed to an issue with that application on long (6+ hours) flights. It's not clear why, but I'll test if that's the issue. I hit upon this thinking it was maybe related to a shader issue that REX might have been altering.
                    Matthew Glanden

                    Comment


                    • DDowns
                      DDowns commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Matthew, I've seen at least a dozen posts in this forum where a REX product caused exactly this problem. SkyForce I think, not sure but I don't think it's shaders.

                    • mglan80
                      mglan80 commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Yep, I followed that trail back here. I saw you have a few posts in those threads and then checked my OP to see if I mentioned REX. I knew you would have recalled those threads. Must have been my disgust and frustration that caused me to skip over that application in the list. These issues are still, supposedly, unconfirmed, but I believe it'll prove out. Thanks for reading and responding.

                    #16
                    There are a couple of things I have found could trigger CTD on my system, which is elsewise very stable (can leave the system with long flights for hours with no CTD at all on 5.2 with hotfix), and I have quite a few addons installed.

                    I use PSXseecontraffic which injects real time traffic into the simulator. The application runs as a separate exe outside the sim, but obviously generates lots of aircraft (AI-models) in P3D I guess using the simconnect interface, and on big airports there can be both parked and live aircraft. I only use at least FSX-compatible AI-models. What I have found, is that when I shutdown PSXseecontraffic and then restart it, this will always genereate a CTD with no trace at all in the event-viewer. I have obviously adapted to this behaviour to avoid this situation, but what I am thinking is that it is probably something with the simconnect interface generating this, perhaps some overflooded pipes or memory which is not cleared up and then when restarting spawning AI-models, the CTD appear.

                    The other thing I have found, is that whenever I am tempted to try to use GSX2 again (couatl), sure enough, the CTD's start popping out of nowhere - perhaps again something with overload of simconnect - only guessing, as I really have no clue at all.

                    Another thing you chould check (if not tried already), is your system via the windows command line tool sfc /scannow (with admin rights), which will telll you (and try to fix) if there are corrupt files on your system which can obviously generate CTD's. If the sfc tool cannot fix it, you should try the DSIM restore. More info on attached URL.

                    https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...c-695b60477a93
                    Last edited by vhaaland; 01Dec2021, 09:57.
                    Vidar Haaland
                    System: Win11, Intel i9-9900K, Gigabyte Z390, RAM 32GB, M.2 SSD, ASUS RTX 3080 ROG Strix OC

                    Comment


                      #17
                      I've done some more testing and come to the conclusion that it is the overclock causing the crashes. Remove the the oc - no more crashes. It would appear that v5 doesn't like my combination of hardware and overclock.

                      I've had this overclock since I bought the machine in 2016 and never had any problems with any software except P3D v5.

                      I thought I'd add this to this discussion. It could be that this is causing problems for others as well.
                      André Hansson

                      Comment


                        #18
                        Originally posted by AndreH View Post
                        I've done some more testing and come to the conclusion that it is the overclock causing the crashes. Remove the the oc - no more crashes. It would appear that v5 doesn't like my combination of hardware and overclock.

                        I've had this overclock since I bought the machine in 2016 and never had any problems with any software except P3D v5.

                        I thought I'd add this to this discussion. It could be that this is causing problems for others as well.
                        Something I observed during P3Dv5.3 beta was a change to a couple of prepar3d.cfg parameters that you may find interesting. In the [JobScheduler] section, the new AffinityMask will now accept values for systems with more than 32 cores. The new parameter P3DCoreAffinityMask tells P3D which cores to use for job schedulers and must be a subset of the AffinityMask (cores masked for non-use can be used by 3d party addons like PMDG). The parameter MainThreadScheduler allows you to define one core that becomes the primary core for the main scheduler and the RenderThreadScheduler value sets the core for rendering jobs. Finally, FrameWorkerThreadScheduler sets the core for per-frame rendering optimization.

                        I've not played with any of these, and I do not OC and enjoy the current v5.3 performance. I suspect that a serious overclocker would want to explore these new parameters in the prepar3d.cfg file.

                        There is also a new [Main] parameter UPGRADE_PROCESS_PRIORITY that forces Windows to assign a high priority to the execution of the application. I've been doing this with a batch file line imbedded in the shortcut properties that I use to launch P3D since v4.2, but it's a nice addition that is easy for anyone to use.
                        Dan Downs KCRP
                        i7-10700K 32GB 3600MHz 2080Ti

                        Comment


                        • AndreH
                          AndreH commented
                          Editing a comment
                          Thanks Dan. I'm aware of these new entries in the config but I also have not messed around with them. I tend to not mess with affinity masks generally.

                          I actually think I'm just going to leave the oc off since I didn't notice any performance degradation, either in p3d or elsewhere. Why push the hardware if it's not necessary.

                        #19
                        Just to loop back to the original topic for a moment, I do agree it seemed to have been REX. I cruised during an LAX FRA flight and even paused near TOD and during approach and there were no issues. Only a couple flights but seems to confirm other experiences.

                        I’ve also taken the opportunity to upgrade to 5.3 (great timing!) and have just not installed REX. The EA clouds look better now and the performance is pretty good. I’ll keep it simpler from here out with v5.
                        Matthew Glanden

                        Comment


                          #20
                          Dan (@ddowns),

                          What's your feeling on the dawn/dusk lighting with EA on? I had not done anything other than daylight flights while testing and I was really put off by the lighting during those transition hours with EA on. I might have to go back to REX after all...
                          Matthew Glanden

                          Comment


                            #21
                            Originally posted by mglan80 View Post
                            Dan (@ddowns),

                            What's your feeling on the dawn/dusk lighting with EA on? I had not done anything other than daylight flights while testing and I was really put off by the lighting during those transition hours with EA on. I might have to go back to REX after all...
                            Embarrassingly I've not spent any time flying the sim since the update. I wouldn't be surprised if I end up turning EA off because I never liked it in earlier versions; however, I'll never install a hack like REX on my system. I know may like it but I'm opposed to Hollywood special effects in my flight simulator.
                            Dan Downs KCRP
                            i7-10700K 32GB 3600MHz 2080Ti

                            Comment


                            • mglan80
                              mglan80 commented
                              Editing a comment
                              Ha! Curmudgeon badge with the Get off My Lawn cluster fully earned. I do prefer their clouds and would use it for that and sky textures. No more Environment Force or weather engine or whatever else it was doing in the background.

                            • DDowns
                              DDowns commented
                              Editing a comment
                              I really like the ASCA ability to dynamically change themes and it's clouds look pretty good; however, it doesn't work with EA so that's probably my sweet spot. I don't mind the neighborhood dogs roaming but keep the rug rats away.

                            • Calzonister
                              Calzonister commented
                              Editing a comment
                              Dan, Beginning with v5.2 ASCA can be used in conjunction with EA!

                              Simply enable EA, and right under that set the volumetric clouds slider to OFF. Run ASP3D and ASCA as you always would and you are set.

                              I just began using this in v5.3 and I am very happy with the results!

                            #22
                            Just completed a very enjoyable flight from KPHX to LVFR KSNA in P3DV5.3 in the NGXu. ACSA +EA and full fat ORBX. Very smooth but for an occasional stutter just like the other versions. Smooth final approach, landing and roll out. I'm happy.
                            Fortunately Harrison Ford wasn't flying today.
                            Last edited by Lanica; 07Dec2021, 22:18.
                            Victor Green

                            Comment

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