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[12JUN19] PMDG and the Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 Question

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    #31
    Phil Spencer is definitely pumping money Microsoft's gaming divisions after the XBone lost out to the PS4, because Sony had the better exclusives. This makes me somewhat hopeful that they won't try to repeat the failures of the past (e.g. Flight). Also streaming/subscription gaming requires time sink games for people to get sucked into, like Civilization and Euro Truck Simulator. The new MSFS could just be one of them, but I'm concerned how much would the subscription monetization (e.g. Bing Maps/Azure AI) would hinder the core gameplay.

    Also looking at the trailer, one would notice that there's a lot of French aircraft, including ones that most pilots around the world don't know about, such as the DR400 and the Mudry CAP-10. I mean the DR400's cockpit even has French labels. I'm now pretty certain that the developer is European, particularly French. Hopefully the dev studio being European makes them understand what the target market, aka the Germans and their simulators, really wants.
    Iain H Chan

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      #32
      I wouldn't say the DR400 is unknown, Robin has been building them a long time and they've built thousands, there's at least 150 on the British register alone (for comparison there's 350 C172). I think most pilots know she's a honey!

      I'm very pleased the DR400 is coming to the new simulator because I think it's one of the best single piston props out there for sight seeing, excellent visibility (especially with the optional bubble canopy), quiet thanks to wood construction, manoeuvrable but not twitchy thanks to large ailerons connected to a centre stick coupled with lots of wing dihedral, and reasonably quick being quite light with 180 hp.
      Chris Liu, proud supporter of Intercity Airways, visit www.ViaIntercity.com

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        #33
        Well given how it looks let us hope MSFS does reach out to all the big addon makers within a few months so they can all get to work. Now they have lifted the lid.
        2020 that could mean Jan or Dec. Or "soon" in PMDG talk. If its the end of 2020 that still would give plenty of time for them to reach out with an SDK etc within a few months time.

        It would be mind-blowing if they redid the "Flight" disaster again. MS might be many things but stupid is not one. So it would seem there best option would be to blow P3D and XP out the water and open it up to PMDG etc.

        That's the best case scenario for us. If not bring on P3D v5!
        David Murden
        PMDG MD-11/JS/NG-600-900/777-300/747v3-8

        Comment


          #34
          I really think these are exciting times. The flight sim scene is crying out for a major shake up and major investment.

          Although I am not quite sure how I feel about being refered to as a member of a herd stampeding along needing guidance from PMDG. Find this slightly insulting after spending hundreds of dollars with PMDG and being a professional myself. Please be careful how you address your customers.
          Matthew Pate

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by Avantime View Post
            Phil Spencer is definitely pumping money Microsoft's gaming divisions after the XBone lost out to the PS4, because Sony had the better exclusives. This makes me somewhat hopeful that they won't try to repeat the failures of the past (e.g. Flight). Also streaming/subscription gaming requires time sink games for people to get sucked into, like Civilization and Euro Truck Simulator. The new MSFS could just be one of them, but I'm concerned how much would the subscription monetization (e.g. Bing Maps/Azure AI) would hinder the core gameplay.

            Also looking at the trailer, one would notice that there's a lot of French aircraft, including ones that most pilots around the world don't know about, such as the DR400 and the Mudry CAP-10. I mean the DR400's cockpit even has French labels. I'm now pretty certain that the developer is European, particularly French. Hopefully the dev studio being European makes them understand what the target market, aka the Germans and their simulators, really wants.
            French labels? How dare they.

            Comment


              #36
              Originally posted by rocketlaunch View Post
              I really think these are exciting times. The flight sim scene is crying out for a major shake up and major investment.

              Although I am not quite sure how I feel about being refered to as a member of a herd stampeding along needing guidance from PMDG. Find this slightly insulting after spending hundreds of dollars with PMDG and being a professional myself. Please be careful how you address your customers.
              Has that original post/remark been edited?
              Albert Sahely

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                #37
                The short-sighted and absurd GREED of Dovetail caused their well-deserved demise. Let us hope M$ has learned from that infamy.
                PMDG Cultist...Chris Honke (CYYZ)

                Comment


                  #38
                  CMTEs very good topic, but I say, if the MS does not release SDK will not survive. We also hope it is compatible with current hardware, such as Manches, Pedals, MCPs, etc., we do not want to buy everything again right. I'm confident it's going to be good, but we have to wait and see.

                  HighTech.jpg
                  AMD 970 - HD 7970 3GB - 850W - Win7 + Win10 - 16GB - 8 TB + SSD m.2 - Backup=9 TB Hot-Swap - 3 LED 23 LG 6048x1080 - + 1 LG 43 Pol. - 2 Logitech Force 3D PRO - HT Philips HTS3564/78 Saitek Yoke, 2Throttle, Switch e Radio Panel - MCP 737 VA 2014 - Rudder Pedals - TrackIR 5- + Acer Aspire VX-5 i5 16GB-5 TB HDs + SSD 1 TB m.2

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                    #39
                    Originally posted by Boomer View Post
                    The short-sighted and absurd GREED of Dovetail caused their well-deserved demise. Let us hope M$ has learned from that infamy.
                    Dovetail’s FSW failed primarily because LM beat them to a full 64 bit sim release. FSW was doomed after that because it was too far from being finished. Dovetail are still going and talking about infamy and greed is overdoing things to say the least.

                    Comment


                      #40
                      I'm sorry guys. Microsoft's FlightSim World left a very bad taste in my mouth and while this may not be more of that, one wonders. Unlike most flightsimmers, I, for one am NOT chomping at the bit. I guess we'll have to wait and see but in the mean time, I've got P3D v4.5 and the PMDG 777 setup right where I want it. I think we were in good hands before Microsoft jumped back into the fray. So we'll just have to see where the rainbow goes.

                      Kirk Mayers

                      Comment


                      • Want2BFlyin
                        Want2BFlyin commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Just to clarify, Flight Sim World was being developed by Dovetail, not Microsoft.

                      #41
                      Echoing what others have said, I'm cautiously interested by what MS has to offer for flight sims. I am however, a bit cynical towards this development - while the promo video made my jaw drop and it could finally allow us to get out of P3D and the murky licensing situation over there, I feel that the integration of AI and more importantly, its availability on a Console will limit the fidelity and level of detail that we as desktop/higher-end flight simulation enthusiasts know and crave. I think that over time, we're going to see this project focus more on being a gateway to flight sims, with it being more of a 'fly around a little bit, do a barrel roll or two, crash the plane for fun and then close the sim and play another game' sort of thing. While this isn't necessarily bad (as you're otherwise keeping the sim community under wraps to all those who aren't already incredibly interested in aviation which doesn't do any wonders for our tiny community), I am worried we're going to see a gradual introduction of (for lack of a better word,) 'immersion breaking/gamified' features such as micro-transactions or a focus on simplified aircraft/systems that don't require anything more than a controller or keyboard/mouse combo to operate everything as those who play 'video games' generally do not appear (to me) to be the most interested in ultra-high fidelity systems. Micro-transactions and oversimplified systems have never went down well around here...

                      I'm also worried that while MS is going to try and appeal to the flight sim community to a degree (less than that of the console community/those not incredibly interested in flight sims), they will eventually follow in their own and Dovetail's footsteps of trying to get a cut of third party revenue streams which will hurt both MS and our community.

                      I really do hope that I'm proven wrong though - if this works out well for us then it's only going to serve us better than ever before.
                      Last edited by VHOEG; 14Jun2019, 13:07. Reason: Added a summary sentence.

                      Comment


                        #42
                        I have to agree with all Robert said.. Having been using FS in some form since 1998 MS has a history of over promising and under delivering... It took years for hardware to catch up with FSX, and then tons of third party add-ons to look like the previews. I am sticking fairly firmly with Prepar3d.. I have been super happy with it, and I like LM's stance with third party developers. Personally even if FS2020 was fully open in the beginning I would think the recent trend with games as a whole is to release open platforms, and then after all the reviews are done roll out the micro-transactions and control. So for me it is definitely going to be a wait and see approach to FS2020. Especially with what companies like Activision and all have tried to pull with their franchises.
                        Steve Jordan
                        Aviation Structural Mechanic SH-60B/HH-60H/MH-60R/MH-60S USN
                        FSX/P3Dv4 Hours: 3100 and counting

                        Comment


                          #43
                          Originally posted by Kevin Hall View Post
                          Dovetail are still going and talking about infamy and greed is overdoing things to say the least.
                          Well there we will need to agree to disagree. As someone who also went down the rabbit hole with their train sim line, I speak from experience.
                          PMDG Cultist...Chris Honke (CYYZ)

                          Comment


                          • Ephedrin
                            Ephedrin commented
                            Editing a comment
                            They‘ve never understood how the sim community works... and that it IS a community. Or they didn‘t want to understand it.

                          #44
                          I’m not hyper ventilating, I’m farting in your general direction.

                          Comment


                            #45
                            I just read that Dovetail are behind this upcoming release. So there goes the fun.

                            https://www.techadvisor.co.uk/new-product/game/microsoft-flight-simulator-3698031/

                            Dovetail Studios, who are behind the upcoming release, took over development of the series for its 2014 porting of FSX to Steam. ACES Studios, responsible for the original games, was shut down by Microsoft in 2009.
                            Chris Jefferies

                            Comment


                              #46
                              I just can't believe it!
                              Tony Argaud @ LFPG - P3DV4.4

                              Comment


                                #47
                                I’m not sure techadvisor.co.uk is exactly an authoritative source.
                                Alan Ampolsk
                                __________________________________________

                                "Ah, Paula, they are firing at me!" -- Saint-Exupery

                                Comment


                                  #48
                                  While it is entirely possible that Dovetail Games (not "Dovetail Studios") is involved with this, I find it unlikely since this article is the only one that has mentioned anything at all about Dovetail. I imagine someone did a quick "Microsoft Flight Simulator" google search, found that Dovetail has been offering FSX:SE and started working on an updated flight simulator (FSW), and just assumed that was referring to this new Microsoft Flight Simulator.
                                  Tim Lincoln
                                  My YouTube Channel

                                  Comment


                                    #49
                                    so aces went long time ago down. some went in DTG and others to cascadegamefoundry http://www.cascadegamefoundry.com
                                    Jere Aarnia
                                    The Flying Finn

                                    Comment


                                      #50
                                      Originally posted by rsrandazzo View Post
                                      [*]We learned during this effort that Microsoft would insist that it had the right to recapture any development done within their core code if they were to decide to re-enter the marketplace. This made the purchase untenable to us, as it meant that Microsoft would always have a leg up to compete with us using our own work.
                                      I wonder then if Microsoft took over Dovetails code from where they left off?

                                      Troy Krajancic

                                      Comment


                                        #51
                                        12-18 months before MSFS2020 release even Microsoft doesn't know how final product will look like, what features will be implemented, how and what add-ons will be integrated and so on.
                                        I hope they abandoned FSX code and working on rebuilding virtual world from scratch. Making graphics really stand out with RTX and other new GFX features. Default scenery should be really top notch without any dirty tricks. Otherwise it makes no sense to come to market with one more FSX/X-Plane/P3D that frankly not that much different from each other.
                                        NIKOLAY KLIMCHUK
                                        C:>FORMAT C:\

                                        Comment


                                          #52
                                          Originally posted by realadsb View Post
                                          12-18 months before MSFS2020 release even Microsoft doesn't know how final product will look like, what features will be implemented...
                                          This isn't quite accurate. If the team working on this is doing their jobs correctly, they should have a very good idea of what the final product should look like. That doesn't mean things won't change, but they absolutely should not be putting this together without having a really good idea of what it will look like when it is finished.

                                          Tim Lincoln
                                          My YouTube Channel

                                          Comment


                                            #53
                                            Interesting article from VentureBeat, where the subscription gaming model is making Flight Simulator viable again, assuming you're willing to pay $15 a month for MSFS and a bunch of other games. I hope there will be a "professional" tier subscription for MSFS only, and a "permanent" license like P3D.

                                            https://venturebeat.com/2019/06/17/m...sss-potential/

                                            These games no longer have to convince players to spend $50-to-$60 in a couple of weeks to end up as successes. Instead, they just need to contribute to the reason a certain group of people continue to subscribe to Game Pass.

                                            That’s why Flight Simulator makes sense again. As a standalone product, the game is a tough sale to that broader audience. Xbox Game Studios could try to change it to appeal to more people. Or it could try to add aggressive monetization to generate more revenue from a smaller audience. Or it could just stop making those games.

                                            But on Game Pass, Flight Simulator isn’t trying to win your $60 away from something else. It’s additive to the experience of subscribing to the service. You didn’t buy Flight Simulator instead of Halo — you subscribed to Game Pass, so now you get Flight Simulator and Halo and Sea of Thieves and dozens of others.
                                            Iain H Chan

                                            Comment


                                              #54
                                              I'm not saying much as i knew dtg made a mistake with flight sim world. I'm waiting to see if the new flight simulator 2020 is another mistake or not? Mark Cockburn
                                              Last edited by Mark644; 27Jun2019, 09:02.

                                              Comment


                                                #55
                                                Can't help but feel a glimmer of hope regarding this unexpected announcement. However, I find it tough to figure why Microsoft would get back into this. I just highly doubt today's younger, and largest, customer base would be into a Flight Simulator the way long time simmers see it. The entire world of aviation (airports, navigation aids, comm centers etc. etc.), planning flights, starting aircraft from C&D. Games are now fast paced, immersive alter realities that gamers get lost in. I just think they would be bored with it. I can always hold out hope that somewhere inside Microsoft they have decided to make the best consumer flight simulator ever with a 'build it and they will come' mentality. lol. Probably not. So the question is; what are they building and what is their marketing angle? I have no answers, only hope.

                                                Bob Quick
                                                Regards,

                                                Bob Quick

                                                Comment


                                                  #56
                                                  I can't get over the fact that Microsoft have apologised for having made mistakes. I've used MS products since 1986 and never have they ever apologised for anything. That alone makes FS2020 a groundbreaking product!
















                                                  Bill Casey

                                                  Comment


                                                    #57
                                                    Originally posted by rquick View Post
                                                    Can't help but feel a glimmer of hope regarding this unexpected announcement. However, I find it tough to figure why Microsoft would get back into this. I just highly doubt today's younger, and largest, customer base would be into a Flight Simulator the way long time simmers see it. The entire world of aviation (airports, navigation aids, comm centers etc. etc.), planning flights, starting aircraft from C&D. Games are now fast paced, immersive alter realities that gamers get lost in. I just think they would be bored with it. I can always hold out hope that somewhere inside Microsoft they have decided to make the best consumer flight simulator ever with a 'build it and they will come' mentality. lol. Probably not. So the question is; what are they building and what is their marketing angle? I have no answers, only hope.

                                                    Bob Quick
                                                    Perhaps, but there are plenty of future pilots and aviation enthusiasts to come. I’m only 18, for example, and I strive for my virtual flights to be realistic as possible. So, I do all of what you listed even if it takes time. But, I’m also learning to fly in real life and I’m majoring in aerospace engineering. Anyone who has genuine love for aviation will get into FS the way long time simmers see it.
                                                    James Ward

                                                    Comment


                                                      #58
                                                      Originally posted by HighFlier View Post

                                                      Perhaps, but there are plenty of future pilots and aviation enthusiasts to come. I’m only 18, for example, and I strive for my virtual flights to be realistic as possible. So, I do all of what you listed even if it takes time. But, I’m also learning to fly in real life and I’m majoring in aerospace engineering. Anyone who has genuine love for aviation will get into FS the way long time simmers see it.
                                                      James, I hope there are many young people like yourself interested. Perhaps Microsoft will surprise us all and do something special.
                                                      Regards,

                                                      Bob Quick

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